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0:08 In the name of God, the Most Gracious, 0:09 the Most Merciful. Peace be upon you, 0:11 and God's mercy and blessings. Listeners 0:13 , we are now connected with Dr. Toni 0:16 Rosyid, a national observer who will 0:18 provide us with enlightenment for the 0:21 next 30 minutes regarding the state of 0:23 our nation. 0:25 Peace be upon you, Mas Toni, how are you 0:27 ? 0:28 >> And peace be upon you, and God's mercy 0:30 and blessings. I am doing well, Mr. 0:32 Ihsan, long time no see. Well. 0:34 >> Well, there it is. 0:37 Yes, Mas Toni, it seems this country is 0:40 not doing so well. 0:44 The new Police Chief, Sigit, seems busy 0:47 reshuffling positions, is this due to 0:50 some kind of recording incident? 0:55 Yes, that is how this unique and truly 0:57 extraordinary country is. 0:59 Chief of Police, will this become a 1:03 negotiation story when Gibran is 1:06 cornered, seemingly having to resign or 1:10 face impeachment? 1:13 Will there be some kind of trade-off 1:16 regarding the existing cases? 1:19 Perhaps Mas Toni can provide some 1:22 enlightenment amidst the 2.5-hour talk 1:24 with Mr. Prabowo at the palace yesterday 1:27 . What happened there? 1:30 Can the Supreme Court or Constitutional 1:33 Court rulings adopt his desire to 1:35 continue proving his justification? 1:40 And what is the final story for the Vice 1:42 President if a change is needed; what 1:45 process will occur? 1:48 Just yesterday, there was a general, the 1:51 youngest general, the reliable man of 1:53 the previous Police Chief, what was his 1:55 name? 1:58 I don't know how, but at 45 he was 2:00 already a general, though his literacy 2:02 was shattered after his dishonorable 2:04 discharge. 2:05 Will he file a lawsuit following his 2:08 dishonorable discharge? 2:11 What do you see from the story behind 2:12 the stories amidst the various tales of 2:14 this country, Mas Toni? 2:17 Perhaps there are other stories prepared 2:19 in the writings of Toni Rosyid to 2:21 enlighten listeners everywhere. 2:24 Please, Mas Toni, share the tales of 2:26 what is happening in this country. 2:31 >> Alright, Mr. Ihsan and all Rasil 2:34 listeners wherever you are. 2:37 The current situation is indeed quite 2:44 concerning and worrying. 2:46 >> Hmm. 2:49 >> If we look, all eyes, all ears, and the 2:52 entire nation's thoughts now seem 2:55 focused and concentrated on two things. 2:59 The first is the wiretapping case. 3:02 >> Hmm. 3:03 >> And the second is the Gibran case. 3:06 >> Hmm. 3:06 >> Right. 3:07 >> Hmm. 3:07 >> That's it. 3:09 Although there is a third case, it is 3:11 starting to be left behind, meaning it 3:13 is not as strong as these two cases, 3:15 which is Mr. Jokowi's diploma case that 3:17 was brought to trial. 3:19 >> Hmm. 3:21 >> Uh. 3:23 We are trying to connect one with the 3:24 other. 3:26 >> Hmm. 3:28 >> I see, Mr. Ihsan, that this wiretapping 3:31 case is not a primary case, but a 3:33 secondary one. 3:37 This is a ladder, an instrument, a tool 3:40 to uncover an even larger case. 3:44 Yes, a larger design. 3:47 Tempo has revealed that this wiretapping 3:49 is something that was also commonly done 3:52 by previous police chiefs, right? 3:55 >> Yes. 3:56 >> Both legal and illegal, and we all know 3:59 that. The question is, why is it being 4:02 revealed now? This is all part of 4:05 intelligence work. 4:08 And intelligence work, if it's for the 4:10 interest of the state, whether legal or 4:13 illegal, often enters into illegal 4:15 territory, right? 4:18 That hasn't been a public issue so far 4:21 because it simply wasn't, well, wasn't 4:24 exposed, right? 4:28 But then the Sigit wiretapping case was 4:30 exposed, and once again the public must 4:33 understand that this wiretapping was 4:36 often done by those before, something 4:39 considered normal, yes, even though in 4:41 quotes it's illegal, there's a legal 4:44 violation there, but why was it exposed 4:47 during Sigit's time? 4:50 So, what we can understand is that this 4:53 exposure is an elite affair. 4:55 If this is an instrument or tool, well, 4:58 eh 5:01 well, eh, to whom exactly, or what is 5:04 the purpose of this exposure, right, Mr. 5:06 Ihsan? 5:08 >> What is behind all this? 5:10 >> This then became chaotic, a mess; when 5:13 the new Police Chief Listyo Sigit 5:16 appeared, nearly 500 officers were 5:19 removed, you know. 5:25 This creates not just disappointment or 5:28 anger, but it also has the potential to 5:31 become resistance. 5:33 >> Hm hm. 5:34 >> Yes, if Listyo Sigit is strong, what if 5:37 he isn't? 5:38 >> Yes, hm. 5:39 >> If he then, in the body of the National 5:40 Police itself, has started to become 5:42 unstable. 5:43 >> Hm hm. 5:44 >> There must be intrigue here and intrigue 5:46 there. 5:47 For example, if a Regional Police Chief 5:49 is appointed as a replacement, their 5:51 senior is displaced, right, while 5:53 underneath them there is still loyalty 5:55 to the old one. 5:57 The District Police Chief is the same, 5:59 and other positions are like that too, 6:01 creating turmoil within the National 6:03 Police itself. 6:06 It would be different if Mr. Sigit let 6:08 things be for a while, then in 3 months 6:11 five people are replaced, right. 6:14 Then in 7 months two people are replaced 6:17 , continuously, roughly in order to 6:19 maintain stability. And why 6:24 is this National Police a result of 6:26 being drawn into practical politics? 6:29 >> That. 6:31 >> It started being built during Mr. Tito's 6:34 era, then modified, designed by Mr. Tito 6:38 , and modified by Mr. Sigit, yes. 6:43 And then this National Police is truly, 6:45 in the context of cleaning up—well, not 6:47 cleaning up is the term, right? 6:52 Is this mutation in the context of 6:54 restructuring, in order to return the 6:57 National Police to being a professional 7:00 institution, or is it actually creating 7:02 a new, different group? 7:06 This is also becoming a public question 7:07 . 7:09 We hope what is being done now returns 7:12 the police to being professional, and I 7:14 really hope the police reform previously 7:17 recommended by Mr. Mahfud and his team, 7:20 Jimly and his team, is revisited. 7:24 >> Hmm, yes, that. 7:26 >> To show that the current police are 7:27 different from the old police. 7:30 The institution is truly committed to 7:32 the recommendation of reform. 7:35 >> Hmm, yes. 7:36 >> What we are worried about is that Mr. 7:39 Sigit will later, yes 7:45 Hello. 7:46 >> the police, yes. 7:47 >> Yes, please continue. 7:50 >> For a long time, they have been involved 7:52 in the design of practical politics, 7:54 participating in practical politics, 7:56 then continued by inheriting from their 7:58 predecessors, so until when will these 8:01 police return to their professionalism 8:03 and their main duties? 8:06 >> Hmm hmm hmm. 8:07 >> We hope that in the future, the police 8:10 will not follow orders if they fall 8:12 outside their official duties, including 8:14 orders from the President. 8:17 No, I'm sorry. Not just the National 8:19 Police, the military should be the same 8:20 . 8:22 When it's outside their scope of duties 8:24 , they must dare to refuse. 8:28 If you have to be dismissed, then be 8:29 dismissed. 8:30 >> Hmm. 8:30 >> Right? If you have to stop, then stop. 8:33 But the police institution is maintained 8:34 , the military institution is maintained 8:36 . 8:37 Likewise for other legal institutions, 8:39 they are truly maintained, they are 8:41 professional. 8:42 If this is whatever the procedure 8:45 >> Hello? Yes, sorry, it's breaking up. 8:47 >> The system is running. 8:48 >> Oh yes, go ahead, continue. 8:50 It cut off a little, sorry. Continue, 8:51 brother. Hmm hmm. 8:52 >> Yeah. 8:53 >> Hmm, so that's it. So they must be 8:56 professional, don't become a, don't 8:57 become a brown party, right brother? 8:59 >> Yes, don't become a party. 9:01 >> Hmm. 9:02 >> Yes, whoever it was recently who could 9:04 defeat the brown party, you know. 9:07 >> Hmm hmm. 9:08 >> Yeah, right. 9:10 Don't, don't think that the police 9:11 themselves are comfortable, no. 9:13 >> Oh, I see, I see. 9:14 >> I communicate with many police friends, 9:16 right? 9:17 They are not comfortable either. They 9:19 also want change. 9:22 The police shouldn't be pulled this way 9:23 and that. The profession stays 9:25 professional, just leave it alone. 9:27 If there is internal competition among 9:30 certain classes, for example, taking the 9:32 94 class, that wasn't a problem, it 9:35 didn't have a huge impact, you know. 9:39 Although not ideal, but at least it's 9:41 still healthy. 9:43 >> Yes. 9:44 >> The professionalism of the police or the 9:46 institution can be maintained. 9:49 But when intervened, say, for example, " 9:51 I'll make you police chief, but if not, 9:53 I'll fire you," if that happens. 9:57 Well, this has been going on recently. 9:59 >> That's right. 10:00 >> And we hope it stops. 10:02 So the police reform from Mr. Mahfud and 10:05 Mr. Jimly, I think they should sit 10:07 together again. 10:09 >> Hmm, that's it. 10:11 >> Sit together again to then accommodate 10:14 the recommendations from that police 10:16 reform committee. 10:20 So that the police are not, what do you 10:22 call it? 10:24 Not used as a tool for power, whether 10:26 it's as a tool during an election or 10:28 post-election. 10:31 Don't let the police or the police 10:34 institution become a tool that ends up 10:36 favoring person A, person B, or person 10:39 C. 10:41 >> Even now, there's an issue that if 10:43 you're not close to a certain party 10:45 member's leader, you won't be used or 10:47 something, that's a sad phenomenon, 10:49 isn't it, brother? 10:52 >> Yeah. 10:54 Yes, exactly, so the police must return 10:57 to their true identity, and this is 10:59 indeed, what party is this? 11:03 This is the trouble with having multiple 11:05 parties, it's very complicated, sir. 11:08 The country is difficult when it has 11:10 many parties. 11:12 >> Hmm. Hello? 11:13 >> So, why? Yes, hello, hello. So, having 11:16 multiple parties makes it difficult for 11:19 a country to progress. 11:21 >> Hmm. 11:21 >> And what's the result? We are always 11:23 arguing about politics. 11:27 Like yesterday, you know, when there was 11:29 the issue with Gibran at the 11:31 Constitutional Court, Golkar and several 11:33 parties started saying, "We support Mr. 11:35 Prabowo for 2029," right? 11:39 But 2029 is still a long way off; Mr. 11:42 Prabowo hasn't even reached half his 11:44 term yet. 11:45 >> The election season is coming too early 11:47 , isn't it? 11:49 >> Back in Mr. Harto's era, the platforms 11:52 of PPP, Golkar, and PDIP were clear, 11:55 right? 11:58 Nowadays, parties are essentially 12:00 without platforms, right? 12:04 If PKS and PKB are together, there's no 12:07 issue of "right-wing Islam" or " 12:09 hardline Islam" as a threat to Pancasila 12:11 and the NKRI, but when they separate, 12:14 that issue reappears. 12:17 Which platform is it, anyway? 12:19 And with PDIP, when they are alone or 12:21 with others, the PKI issue comes up, you 12:23 know. But when PDIP is with the PPP 12:26 party or with, say, what? PAN, for 12:28 instance, right? That issue just doesn't 12:30 come up, you see. So, 12:33 which platform is it, really? 12:36 In my opinion, moving forward, I would 12:38 prefer if we could squeeze them down to 12:40 a maximum of three parties. 12:42 >> Yes. 12:42 >> Because this has become a very, very 12:45 serious source of problems. 12:48 My apologies to the, what? 12:51 Party leaders and party cadres. 12:54 So that the three of them would compete 12:58 to nominate future presidents. 13:01 PDIP, go ahead. The competition between 13:03 these parties would become healthy and 13:04 firm. 13:05 >> But the laws 13:06 >> themselves would remain undisturbed. 13:08 Essentially, politics wouldn't be 13:10 disrupted by these extraordinary party 13:12 maneuvers, you know. 13:15 Those zig-zags—even experts in the field 13:18 find them hard to predict. 13:23 Moreover, there is no readable pattern, 13:26 so it cannot be theorized. 13:31 That's it, Mr. Ihsan. 13:33 >> It also coincides with the sudden issue 13:35 regarding Gibran, which was initially 13:37 about his diploma. Mr. Toni himself 13:39 previously looked down on the diploma 13:41 issue. 13:42 But it turns out this became the trigger 13:44 between the two events. 13:47 Will this correlate in policy between 13:49 the former National Police Chief and 13:51 Gibran, who, if we look at it—what? 13:54 their digital footprint—they are very 13:57 close, like the old Solo gang, right? 14:00 What do you think, Mr. Toni Riyad, will 14:03 he resign or be constitutionally 14:06 impeached, and will the allegations 14:08 against the former National Police Chief 14:11 roll into a story of treason or what, 14:14 sir? 14:16 >> This is for you, Mr. Ihsan. 14:17 >> Hmm. 14:20 >> Everyone knows that Mr. Listyo Sigit is 14:23 a person close to Mr. Jokowi, for one 14:26 thing. 14:28 Then secondly, Mr. Listyo Sigit is 14:30 someone far more loyal and firm to Mr. 14:33 Jokowi than perhaps the others. 14:37 Compared to others, Mr. Sigit’s level of 14:41 loyalty to Mr. Jokowi is more apparent, 14:44 right? 14:47 But we cannot automatically conclude 14:50 that everything Sigit does is directly 14:52 connected to Mr. Jokowi. 14:56 Whether it's Sigit himself, General 14:58 Sigit himself, and then with Mr. Jokowi 15:01 , in certain cases, yes. 15:04 I am close with Mr. Ihsan, aren't I? 15:06 What Mr. Ihsan does is not automatically 15:08 my support, it's not automatically there 15:10 . This causality must be proven first, 15:13 and for now, there is no proven 15:14 causality. That is the first point. 15:17 But the second one is, is targeting 15:20 Sigit a part of the battle with Solo? 15:24 To that, I say yes. 15:25 >> Oh. Yes. 15:27 >> The indicators? The indicators are the 15:29 battle, no. 15:30 >> So it's like there are two suns, right, 15:32 Mas Toni? 15:33 >> Yes, these two, Mr. Ihsan, there are, 15:37 what, there are three, what, the war of 15:41 old cadres and senior cadres in PSI 15:44 retreating. 15:45 >> Oh, yes. 15:46 >> Speaking of PSI, speaking of Mr. Jokowi 15:49 , there is the deputy chairman, the 15:51 secretary-general, and then one more, 15:53 that is it. 15:54 >> I don't, I can't imagine how the former 15:56 Nasdem people there are calculating 15:58 things now, right? 16:00 >> Yes, what does that mean? 16:03 It means this is not related to the case 16:05 itself, which is why I said from the 16:08 start that this wiretapping is just a 16:10 trigger. 16:14 Yes, that's why it's bait to reveal, to 16:17 reveal a battle. 16:20 And Mr. Ihsan still remembers, I sent 16:24 you my writing on the second, on 16:27 February 10, 2005. 16:30 >> Yes. 16:31 >> What was the title? The feud between Mr. 16:34 Jokowi and Prabowo. At that time, Mr. 16:36 Prabowo was angry at, what was it called 16:39 ? At what? Uh. 16:44 In Surabaya, if I'm not mistaken, there 16:47 was a conference, the NU, the women's 16:49 one, that one. 16:51 >> Yes, yes. 16:53 >> Uh, Muslimat, Muslimat NU. 16:55 Someone was complaining. 16:59 No, we just laughed at it, it was funny 17:01 , and so on. 17:02 No, I'm theory-based, sir. 17:05 >> Hmm. 17:06 Yes. 17:07 >> It’s the same as when I wrote back in 17:10 2012, 2017, that the title in the 17:12 mainstream media is still there, it 17:14 wasn't...if the previous 10 were already 17:17 ...this one wasn't. 17:19 So the title was "The Power Struggle: 17:22 Megawati vs. Jokowi." People only 17:24 realized 7 years later, in 2024. 17:26 >> This is, yes, correct. 17:28 >> At that time, I was considered, I was 17:30 considered, what is it called? 18:18 >> and so on. How is it, Mas Toni? 18:21 >> Yes, Mr. Ihsan. Like this, Mr. Ihsan. 18:23 There are two things that made them, uh 18:25 , run away. 18:27 The first is there is no compromise. 18:29 >> Oh. 18:30 >> with them. What is "having a compromise 18:32 "? Okay, for example, I won't mention 18:34 the company, but you have 200 trillion 18:36 in debt. 18:37 How is this? 18:40 What are you going to do? Your palm oil 18:42 business is robbing this country. 18:45 If you are robbing, just do this: pay 18:47 your taxes in installments, then 70% 18:50 goes to the state, and 30%goes to you. 18:53 That still makes sense, doesn't it? 18:55 If you use compromise methods like that 18:57 , it's a win-win solution; the state 18:59 gets its share, right? 19:01 Yes, and for them, if it's for the 19:02 country, that's fine. 19:05 But if there are certain individuals 19:07 using back channels, right. 19:11 Hey, you have 600 trillion in debt, then 19:14 200 trillion is extorted through illegal 19:17 channels. 19:19 Well, they won't accept it, they won't 19:21 let it go. That is one thing, one matter 19:24 . So, I think there is a win-win 19:26 solution. 19:27 This country has long had many robbers, 19:30 and we call them the oligarchy. 19:32 The scale of the robbery is 19:34 extraordinary, reaching millions of 19:35 hectares. 19:36 Right? Now, we agree on confiscation, 19:38 but what is the solution? 19:41 If no one manages it, it will just rot, 19:43 and today I heard—it needs to be 19:45 verified—that our CPO production has 19:47 dropped by 28%, sir. 19:50 >> They all ran away, left their 19:52 plantations behind, and Agrinas cannot 19:54 manage it all; they feel hurt because 19:57 they felt they had settled things with 20:00 the previous leadership. Why now are 20:02 they being robbed and even having TNI 20:05 signs put up? 20:06 Now, this, this, finally 20:10 >> so fixing things, in my opinion, well, 20:12 in Mr. Jokowi's era it happened a lot, 20:14 but it started in the previous era. 20:16 So, it's not just Jokowi's era, maybe 20:18 it's just more massive. But it was done 20:20 in previous periods too. What does that 20:22 mean? Well, they shouldn't be allowed to 20:24 say, "We already gave it to the previous 20:26 ones." Ah, that’s your business, not 20:29 mine. 20:30 This is the nation's business; that is 20:31 between you and them. 20:33 Whether it's the previous ones or 20:35 whoever, this is between you and the 20:37 state, and I am the leader of the state 20:38 . 20:40 Now look, what is rational, who can 20:43 manage it, but you have to pay for your 20:45 sins; what are your sins? 20:48 Taxes. 20:50 Second, this belongs to the state. 20:54 You manage a certain amount, and there's 20:56 a native palm oil entrepreneur, where is 20:59 it? In Central Kalimantan. 21:01 "Just take it, it's fine.""Give me 30% 21:05 or 10%, that's fine." Rather than it 21:08 being idle, rather than it just being 21:10 ruined, right. 21:11 The state won't get anything either, 21:12 that's roughly it. 21:15 Now, this requires, in my opinion, 21:18 policy and wisdom. 21:21 The second factor is that there is no 21:24 legal clarity, no policy clarity. 21:27 What is to be done with these 21:29 entrepreneurs? 21:30 As an investor, if it's not clear, I'm 21:33 afraid to spend money, especially lately 21:35 , for example, in October, November, 21:38 December. 21:41 This is the time for companies to plan 21:44 how much capital and what kind of 21:48 business we want to target. 21:52 Now, at this moment, the state's policy 21:55 is still unclear. 21:58 It's not conducive to investment, so I'd 22:00 rather invest in China, I'd rather 22:02 invest in Vietnam. 22:05 If it's about MSC, we want to create our 22:09 own standard. 22:13 Mr. Ihsan, we must realize there is a 22:16 term, right? 22:20 It expresses how capitalism cannot be 22:23 fought. 22:25 >> Hmm, hmm. 22:26 >> So, we, as Muslims, look at the Quran. 22:32 That is a reality for a lifetime, 22:34 throughout history. 22:36 how we respond to that, it certainly 22:39 exists. 22:40 What does that mean? 22:43 Capitalism as an ideology might fade, 22:46 but as a business practice, it cannot 22:49 disappear. 22:52 Therefore, there must be a wise, precise 22:55 , and measurable solution so that this 22:59 is not controlled, you know, only by the 23:03 elite circles, but can be encouraged. We 23:07 have entered, mind you, Pak Harto's era 23:09 . 23:10 Back then there was GBHN, now we are 23:14 preparing PPHN in order to keep things 23:17 measurable. 23:19 We should not return to 23:23 what you call a traditional economy, you 23:25 know, a traditional economy. If there is 23:28 no clarity, we will return to a 23:29 traditional economy. 23:31 Ah, these are these are two things. 23:33 Regarding Gibran, Pak Ihsan, right? 23:36 It was 2 and a half hours yesterday, 23:37 right? 23:38 >> Yes, more. More than 2 and a half hours 23:41 , they say. 23:42 >> Ah, more than 2 and a half hours, you 23:43 know. We are asking around, Pak Ihsan is 23:45 also asking, what was actually talked 23:46 about? 23:47 >> that? 23:48 Was it a father advising his son, or was 23:51 the son saying, "I have arrived, sir"? 23:54 Before, they were told to be calm, be 23:56 calm. 23:57 Now he is not calm. What do you think, 23:58 Pak Ihsan? 23:59 >> I wonder, were they served drinks— 24:02 bitter coffee, sweet coffee, a latte, or 24:05 various kinds of, you know, syrup? 24:09 Yes, or tea, right? All sorts of things 24:11 , right? 24:12 But the point is this, Pak Ihsan, this 24:14 is political. 24:15 This relationship is already fractured 24:16 as much as it can be. 24:17 >> Hmm. 24:19 >> It's fractured to the core. I predicted 24:21 this from the beginning. Why? Their 24:24 interests are already different. Ah, 24:26 this relationship being so fractured 24:28 means the meeting holds political 24:30 significance. 24:31 >> Hmm. 24:33 >> Gibran came, right, to ensure that Pak 24:35 Prabowo was... "Sir, I want to resign," 24:37 and when Pak Prabowo said, "Yes, okay, 24:40 resign from politics," like that. 24:44 >> Maybe his hope was, "Don't resign," but 24:45 Pak Prabowo's statement was clear, 24:47 wasn't it? 24:49 >> In my opinion, when Pak Prab said, "Yes 24:53 ," when he said yes, it means this is 24:56 indeed Pak Prabowo's game, you know. 25:00 >> Oh. 25:00 >> To ensure that, you know. 25:02 But if Pak Prabowo prevented it, then 25:05 this isn't Pak Prabowo's game, you know 25:07 . 25:07 >> like that. 25:09 >> But Pak Prabowo gave a diplomatic answer 25:11 which was then hastily revealed to the 25:13 public by, uh, what do you call them... 25:17 who was that? 25:18 >> Cabinet secretary, right. 25:20 >> Minister of the cabinet secretariat, 25:21 right. 25:23 So when it was said that Pak Prabowo 25:25 said that, uh, yes. 25:27 >> The Pak Prabowo event. 25:30 >> The term is, he isn't preventing you 25:32 from resigning, not preventing, but " 25:34 just try the Administrative Court first 25:37 ," right? 25:39 That's a diplomatic answer, meaning: "I 25:42 am neutral here," you know. 25:44 >> Oh, I see. 25:46 >> I am not holding you back from resigning 25:48 ; if I held you back from resigning, the 25:50 public would deal with me. 25:52 >> Hmm. 25:53 >> I would be attacked by the public, but 25:54 if I then told you to resign, then the 25:56 conclusion is I am the player, right? 25:58 Something like that. 25:59 >> Yes, yes. 26:01 >> So Mr. Prabowo answered very 26:03 diplomatically, what should I call it, 26:05 neither agreeing nor refusing, er, 26:07 obstructing, but suggesting to try the 26:10 Administrative Court first, right. 26:15 In my opinion, this answer from Mr. 26:17 Prabowo was tactical and calculated, you 26:19 know. 26:21 So, this is the political significance 26:24 before Gibran, er, held a press 26:26 conference first, that 26:30 press conference to explain so it 26:32 wouldn't, er, be twisted later, so it 26:34 wouldn't become this. 26:36 So finally there's a war, a war of 26:38 narratives in the public, and that's 26:40 where public perception clashes, you 26:42 know, regarding those two two two 26:43 statements. 26:46 So, Mr. Ihsan, but Mr. Ihsan, whatever 26:49 the story is, it seems from all the 26:51 conclusions, when Gerindra said they 26:53 agreed with Mr. Mahfud, what's it called 26:55 , the right of inquiry, they agreed, 26:57 that's where it's heading. 27:00 That means Gerindra will represent Mr. 27:02 Prabowo; it's rather hard not to not to 27:04 link them. 27:05 What does that mean? 27:07 Eh, everyone is in agreement, whether 27:10 it's the palace or outside the palace, 27:12 they agree that he, the brave one, 27:14 should be impeached or resign, or 27:16 impeachment is another matter, but the 27:18 point is he stops. 27:21 That's one word and it seems difficult 27:23 to go to the Administrative Court, 27:24 especially since Yusril is a minister 27:26 here. 27:28 Yeah, there's no point in going to the 27:29 Administrative Court, that's clear and 27:30 firm. 27:31 >> What about the package narrative, Mr. 27:33 Toni? Didn't the Solo gang say earlier 27:35 that this must be a package. 27:37 This is becoming, eh, what is it, it's 27:39 impossible for them to just stay quiet, 27:41 one day they will act up in various ways 27:43 . 27:44 >> We'll discuss that later. Yes, let me 27:46 finish this first. So Mr. Ihsan, this 27:49 voice is unanimous, as round as it gets 27:51 , rounder than an egg. 27:55 This is sure to go down, right. 27:59 If not yesterday, this will surely go 28:01 down, the current dynamic will surely go 28:03 down, right. 28:04 Ah, the question is, when it goes down, 28:06 what will it be like? 28:08 We are still talking, our time is 28:09 limited, we are talking again about 28:11 whoever the replacement is, that's 28:12 another thing, there is a quite acute 28:14 dynamic here, yes, quite dynamic. 28:16 Then on another note, will this just be 28:19 left alone? No. 28:21 >> Oh, this this this is what was just 28:23 talked about. 28:24 Will this just be left alone? What, how 28:27 about it, Mr. Toni? 28:29 >> I predict there will be a time when that 28:31 retaliation, eh, is born. 28:34 When will that time be? 28:36 My prediction is, when the time comes 28:38 and the stage is held by Mr. Prabowo, 28:40 then criticism is directed there, the 28:42 critical situation has heated up, let's 28:44 say for the Free Nutritious Meal, KDMP, 28:46 or any policy later from Mr. Prabowo or 28:48 Mr. Prabowo's narrative then blunders 28:50 again, eh, at the moment that happens or 28:52 then there is unrest, eh, because of 28:54 conflict among internal internal, what 28:56 do you call it? 28:58 The palace itself. At the moment the 29:00 situation starts to what? Eh, those 29:02 leaves have started to dry out, it 29:04 doesn't rule out the possibility that 29:06 those wiretap results will emerge. 29:08 >> Oh, so like there's what? Files like in 29:12 America, is it? 29:14 Epstein files or something like that, is 29:16 it? 29:17 >> I I suspect that for the Solo camp, to 29:20 carry out retaliation right now is not 29:22 tactical. 29:24 Because why? 29:27 Uh, public support for the palace is 29:28 currently at its peak, because while it 29:30 wasn't high for Solo yesterday, it has 29:31 surged now with the wiretapping case. 29:34 The public seems to be truly steered 29:35 into giving extraordinary support. If 29:37 later 29:38 >> it was already below 50%support 29:40 yesterday, right? But it went up. 29:42 >> If you shoot now, it won't be effective 29:44 . 29:46 But when that support eventually drops, 29:48 especially if society starts protesting 29:50 at some point. 29:53 Uh, as the tree starts to wither, that's 29:55 when the bullets will be fired one by 29:57 one. 29:58 Whether it's people who are hurt, uh, 30:00 police officers who are bitter about 30:02 being removed, it could be. 30:05 Or it could be from the oligarchs who 30:07 are bitter, that's possible. Or from Mr. 30:09 Jokowi's supporters, it could be. 30:12 But in my opinion, they are waiting for 30:14 the moment, and right now is not the 30:16 moment. 30:17 So, what's the term? Solo, the oligarchs 30:20 , and so on, I am sure they won't fight 30:22 back for now. 30:24 Uh, their group won't fight back. 30:26 >> Oh. 30:26 >> They are conceding, so in my words, it's 30:29 10-0. 30:31 >> There's an issue there, right. 30:33 Wow, the expression 30:34 >> zero, there's no resistance, just 30:36 >> look. There is no resistance at all. 30:38 >> Yes, in what? 30:40 The setup in court also shows how that 30:43 is. The file could have been placed on a 30:45 chair, but it was placed on the floor, 30:47 right? 30:49 >> There is a fundamental question, there 30:51 is a fundamental question and it has no 30:52 answer yet. 30:53 Of course, the answer will come through 30:56 the evidence later. 30:57 The fundamental question is, will, uh 31:04 the current government be better than 31:06 the previous government? 31:08 That's all. 31:09 >> Wow, 30 minutes flew by, Mas Toni, we've 31:12 been chatting. 31:13 >> Yes, what's needed? 31:16 Later, at some point as a closing, later 31:18 at some point when there is, for example 31:21 , if there is, once again if there is, I 31:23 repeat three times, if there are 31:25 wiretapping results, if they are 31:28 released at some point by anyone, when 31:30 they are released and it turns out to be 31:33 related to, you know, individuals in 31:35 power, individuals, meaning a few people 31:37 , for instance, if it's released, 31:41 perhaps the public's perception and 31:43 perspective will turn around. Oh, thank 31:46 you Mr. Sigit, it turns out this is how 31:47 it is, we had the wrong perception, 31:49 right? It could be. 31:51 >> Exactly. That's extraordinary, right. 31:55 We already have the "rocket and atit" 31:58 and didn't realize many people would be 32:01 sucked in. 32:03 The world is already agitated just being 32:04 told a story like this. 32:06 What if that "rocket atit" is opened 32:08 later, right? As a closing, Mas Toni, 32:11 maybe a reminder for all listeners. Go 32:13 ahead, Mas Toni. 32:15 >> Yes, alright listeners, wherever you are 32:19 , let's remain wise and mature in 32:23 responding to all issues. 32:28 Yes, whatever the issue is, look for 32:31 more detailed data; when we don't have 32:33 the data, don't talk and don't easily 32:36 jump to conclusions. 32:38 >> Hmm. 32:39 >> Yes. 32:39 >> That's it. 32:42 >> Right? 32:44 Don't draw any conclusions before we 32:48 have sufficient data, or enough 32:51 information, so we don't get trapped in 32:55 political games—they are games, aren't 32:59 they, what kind of games? 33:06 Uh, what do you call it, Laswell said. 33:10 Every party is involved in these games 33:14 now, each with their own interests, 33:17 whether it's the Democrats with their 33:21 AHY, or PDIP with their PDIP, their vote 33:24 , and Puan, or perhaps PKS with their 33:28 dynamics, and so on. 33:32 This is a world of games that are 33:34 fleeting; a moment later, we realize 33:36 what happened today, like, why are those 33:39 people the ones enjoying it, why are 33:41 they the ones gaining? 33:45 So that we don't get trapped in other 33:47 people's games, we need more detailed 33:50 information, and then to behave and 33:52 speak in a more mature and thoughtful 33:55 way, solely for the nation's future, for 33:58 this country's future, for the future of 34:00 the Indonesian people, and not for 34:03 anyone else. 34:06 That is the most important, basic, and 34:08 fundamental thing to become a principle 34:11 and guide for us all. 34:14 >> Yes, that's right. 34:14 >> Sir. 34:16 >> Thank you, Mas Taufik Rosyid, may God 34:17 grant you blessings and enlightenment; 34:19 this is very helpful for our listeners. 34:21 Thank you. 34:23 Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi 34:24 wabarakatuh, Mas Taufik Rosyid. 34:25 >> Wa'alaikumussalam warahmatullahi 34:27 wabarakatuh. 
