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0:08 Brail TV. 0:15 >> Peace be upon you, Bang Saud. Good 0:19 morning. How are you, Bang Saud? 0:21 >> And peace be upon you too. Good morning 0:22 , Mr. Ihsan. How are you, Indonesia? 0:25 >> Indonesia. Ah, they say Indonesia is not 0:28 in a good state, Bang Saud. It is said 0:31 that the "parcok"(partiality/cronyism) 0:33 is starting to be revealed. 0:34 >> What is the story behind the story that 0:37 you see, Bang Saut? 0:39 There’s even a suggestion to pay 0:42 attention to the police officers at the 0:44 KPK, amid the chaos regarding the arrest 0:46 of the number one man, a former police 0:49 officer. 0:50 What is happening here? Has anyone 0:53 analyzed this, Bang Saud? Ah, is this 0:55 like some sort of G30S movement, or what 0:58 kind of movement is this? 1:00 Is there a forced connection in this 1:03 story, or how is it? 1:05 A silent coup behind the turmoil of " 1:07 two suns" that many figures warned about 1:10 when it happened. 1:12 So, this is how it ends up. 1:15 What does Bang Saud see of our current 1:17 state, amid the trials over diplomas— 1:19 why has such a simple matter become so 1:22 complicated? 1:24 Behind all this, perhaps Bang Saud could 1:27 provide some response or insight for our 1:30 listeners in 42 countries, from Aceh to 1:33 Banyuwangi, at least those reached by 1:35 our radio frequency. 1:38 Please, Bang Saut Situmorang. We invite 1:40 you, Bang. 1:41 >> Yes. First of all, thank you, Mas—Mr. 1:44 Ihsan. Thank you. 1:47 I am reminded of the time during the 1:49 2024 Presidential Election. 1:53 >> I was in a place in East Java. I don't 1:56 need to name it, but there was quite a 1:57 large forum there. He he. 2:00 >> There, I said that the Presidential 2:02 Election was played unfairly with the 2:05 involvement of this "parcok." 2:09 I said—this I am saying—this, what I 2:12 stated, 2:14 >> there were witnesses as well. I said, 2:16 >> when the time comes, we must put on 2:20 trial those directly involved in the 2:23 unfair conduct in the implementation of 2:26 our democracy. 2:28 >> Hm. 2:29 >> So if I were pushed to name names, we 2:31 could name them quite clearly, right? 2:34 Who among them. We know finally 2:38 >> the election turned out that way. 2:40 Then ahead of us are issues of 2:42 >> hm. 2:43 >> fake, fake, and so on. 2:45 >> Hm. 2:47 >> So what I need to emphasize is that as 2:50 of today, the country is actually being 2:54 made like a "lame duck." 2:57 The country is usually, like in America 3:00 today, they say 3:03 >> President Trump has the potential to be 3:05 a "lame duck" because he lost in that 3:08 election. 3:10 >> So, if I return to Indonesia, we are 3:12 being made like a "lame duck," the 3:15 country is made to seem incapable— 3:18 >> paralyzed— 3:19 >> unable to do anything because of a 3:20 certain group of people, right? 3:23 Yesterday, on one of the TV stations, I 3:27 said that the truly destructive behavior 3:31 carried out by this LSP—if linked to the 3:34 use of certain equipment, 3:39 >> don't forget, that equipment was 3:40 purchased for trillions of rupiah. 3:42 >> Hm. More than 2 trillion, right? He. 3:45 >> Yes. That equipment is at my place. 3:47 Because when I was at BIN, that 3:49 equipment wasn't far off from what I had 3:51 back then at BIN. It also wasn't far 3:53 from what I had when I was at the KPK. 3:56 >> And so, I am imagining how they use that 3:58 tool to, for example, input thousands of 4:01 numbers. 4:02 Maybe Mr. Iksan's number is also in 4:03 there, we don't know, right? 4:05 Right? 4:07 Looking at Mr. Iksan, I see that the 4:09 people invited here are all locals. 4:11 Try to listen in and see where the 4:12 conversation is heading. That is 4:14 definitely it. But well, we are more 4:16 afraid of this "roket atit" thing. 4:18 Please, continue. 4:19 >> Yes. So my point is, we must ensure this 4:22 is resolved completely. 4:24 Because in any criminal event, 4:28 >> there is an intellectual actor, there 4:31 are those who assist, 4:34 >> there are those who support, 4:36 >> there are also those who are, what do 4:38 you call it? 4:39 Afraid to do anything because their 4:41 leaders are pressuring them, and so on. 4:44 Yes. Yes. 4:45 >> So if we want to resolve this to move 4:48 towards a future of fair, beneficial, 4:51 and firm law, it must be acted upon 4:54 further in as much detail as possible to 4:57 bring them to justice, even if, as 5:00 announced yesterday, there is a 5:03 potential for treason. 5:07 >> I say it has potential because, after 5:09 all, the information collected is aimed 5:11 at targeting the president. 5:13 It is impossible that the gathered 5:15 information is intended for the two of 5:17 us, right? 5:19 The target, the target... 5:21 >> Yes, the target is the president, so 5:23 that he becomes incapacitated, paralyzed 5:25 , unable to function, unable to go 5:27 anywhere because there will be 5:28 counter-efforts that must be made. 5:31 Heh. 5:32 >> Because the result of such information 5:35 for anyone collecting it through 5:37 wiretapping, social media, or whatever, 5:41 >> is only three things: warning, 5:43 >> what should we do now? He said something 5:46 like this. 5:47 >> Then, forecasting: we predict where he 5:49 is heading because he said this. 5:52 >> And then, problem solving. 5:54 >> Oh, if that's the case, we should do 5:56 this instead. 5:57 >> Ah, 5:57 >> it's not possible either. It's not 5:59 possible either. 6:01 Suddenly, the result of that wiretapping 6:02 is, "Oh, that man doesn't like 6:04 Yogyakarta gudeg." 6:06 So don't make him gudeg, don't send him 6:08 gudeg. No, no, no, no. 6:10 >> So, warning, forecasting, problem 6:12 solving from those wiretapping results. 6:14 That's why I said yesterday it has the 6:16 potential for treason. 6:17 >> If we talk about treason, it must be the 6:19 death penalty, right? 6:21 >> So once again, 6:22 >> many people say, 6:23 >> how is it being spread? Well, yesterday 6:26 it was linked to a number of people 6:28 still placed in many institutions. 6:30 >> There are some in the KPK, the Attorney 6:32 General's Office, the police. They use 6:34 pinpoints, 6:35 >> departments too, all of them, right? 6:38 >> Yes. Yes. That is why this must be 6:40 cleaned up totally. 6:42 >> If not, I tell you, we will truly be 6:44 incapacitated. 6:46 >> So Prabowo shouldn't just finish it by 6:48 saying, "Oh, because they tapped me, 6:49 I'll just clear up my own affairs." 6:51 No. with the people present because that 6:53 person is also said to exist, right? 6:57 >> but those other institutions, brother, 7:00 some say why bother, this institution 7:02 was exposed because of a report from a 7:04 police officer who was already fed up, 7:07 some even resigned, some reported like 7:09 this, how is it, brother Saud? 7:14 >> yes, so we understand, they are in 7:17 Indonesia, how someone, let's say a 7:19 one-star, two-star, or three-star 7:21 general, but then underneath the 7:23 structure, I repeat again, the structure 7:25 must be fixed because it's definitely 7:28 structural, it's impossible for this LSP 7:30 to go straight to the keyboard person, 7:33 right? 7:35 >> it's not possible, is it? there must be 7:37 a structure, so that has to be fixed, 7:39 the agenda... 7:40 >> so that means 7:41 >> yes, so that means it must be corrected 7:44 , straightened out, and then followed up 7:47 >> don't forget, the law must be fair, 7:49 meaning due process of law 7:52 >> we don't want to judge, what you call it 7:55 , just to save or guard our own field 7:58 while letting others 'fields be 8:00 destroyed. 8:02 It’s not like that. This is Indonesia's 8:04 field. Because there are starting to be 8:06 responses now 8:07 >> oh, Prabowo is doing a counter just to 8:10 save his leadership. 8:12 >> No, no, no, it's not like that, we are 8:15 saving Indonesia. 8:17 >> Hm. Heh. 8:18 >> Now, if we are saving Indonesia, 8:20 >> therefore, don't just talk about the 8:22 President being wiretapped, but everyone 8:25 there is 8:26 >> being treated with bad intentions. Don't 8:29 forget, if we are at the KPK, to wiretap 8:31 someone, there must be an investigation 8:32 first. 8:33 >> We confirm the two elements before 8:35 marking or wiretapping. 8:38 >> So once again, don't say that this is to 8:40 save me while everything else is in 8:42 chaos. 8:43 I say this 8:44 >> being wiretapped. Okay. Prabowo being 8:46 wiretapped has the potential to become a 8:48 political target because his faults are 8:49 being sought after 8:50 >> so that he cannot carry out his 8:52 administration. 8:54 But if it's only to save Prabowo's 8:56 position, that is wrong. 8:58 We want to save the position of the 9:00 state. The state is unable 9:02 >> to bring evil people to court. 9:04 >> That is the big picture that must be 9:06 followed up on. Something like that, sir 9:08 . Sir. 9:08 >> Yes. What makes this institution just 9:10 stay silent? 9:12 social media, settings, and all that, if 9:15 not dealt with firmly, will become a 9:18 boomerang later. 9:20 After all, many people say everyone has 9:22 their own sins or their own leverage 9:24 against them. How do you see it, brother 9:27 Saud, in the midst of this country full 9:30 of hostage-taking? 9:31 >> Yes, that is why if we talk, let's set 9:33 aside politics for a moment because this 9:36 morning we are talking about law 9:37 enforcement. Yes. I 9:39 >> as for the politics, please go ahead. 9:40 Because the politics are indeed very 9:42 weak. 9:43 >> It’s clear there are Constitutional 9:45 Court and Supreme Court rulings that 9:47 Senayan is unable to handle. 9:48 >> The law is clear. But 9:51 >> yes, there is no comment. We will target 9:53 a certain date for him to step down. You 9:55 have to be brave enough to say that. 9:56 >> Even his photo in Jogja was taken down. 10:01 >> Yes. So let's set aside the politics 10:03 first. We are talking about law 10:04 enforcement. 10:06 Even if law enforcement later becomes 10:08 more certain to resolve political issues 10:10 . 10:11 >> Okay. At the political policy level, 10:14 Prabowo has already done that, meaning 10:16 making replacements and so on. Then the 10:18 law enforcement is handed over to the 10:20 investigators at the National Police 10:21 Headquarters to then be processed. 10:23 Our duty is to oversee all of this. 10:26 >> If not, we will nag them. 10:28 I am ready, I am ready to talk about 10:29 this every morning with him if things 10:30 are being tidied up like this. 10:32 Because this is, you know, the story is 10:34 , what is it, now many people say these 10:37 officials are the old order, purely for 10:39 loyalty. 10:40 Meritocracy has become a strange thing 10:42 nowadays, it should be, well, listeners 10:44 might not understand this yet. 10:47 Meritocracy means selection based on 10:49 competence, like that. 10:51 Isn't that right, Bang Saud? 10:55 Yes. That's why 2 weeks ago 10:58 >> he 10:58 >> The Agency for Pancasila Ideology 11:00 Education (BPIP) 11:01 >> Yeah. 11:02 >> invited several people including me. 11:05 The question is why is this country in 11:07 such a mess? H 11:09 >> BPIP started thinking, oh, this is about 11:11 ethics. 11:12 >> Hm. 11:12 >> Oh, this is about morals. 11:14 >> H 11:14 >> that's what I said on several TV 11:16 stations. E 11:16 >> SBY even said, "How did my country end 11:18 up like this?" He just found out about 11:20 it. 11:21 >> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So how can 11:24 these ethics and morals actually be 11:26 implemented? Because, well, I always 11:29 keep taking examples 11:31 >> there was 73 kilos of gold at a 11:32 prosecutor's house 11:34 >> yeah. 11:35 >> There was 51 kilos of gold at the house 11:37 of someone dealing with judges. 11:39 That’s because ethics are not being 11:41 practiced. So it means there is a big 11:43 picture that we also need to fix 11:45 regarding the implementation of state 11:47 ethics and morals. He. 11:49 >> Even the Police Chief doesn't understand 11:51 that wiretapping the leader who 11:52 appointed him is wrong, you know. 11:55 Where are the moral ethics in that? 11:56 >> True. 11:57 >> So it means the ethical conditions that 12:00 must exist, exist in the ministries and 12:02 elsewhere 12:04 >> whether it's in the police, the KPK, and 12:06 so on, they are all like paralyzed, 12:08 aren't they? 12:09 >> Yes. They can't do anything, they just 12:11 let it happen like that. 12:14 If these ethical morals are ignored, it 12:15 will definitely lead to potential 12:17 criminal charges. 12:19 >> Therefore, we are reminding everyone how 12:23 to, well, recall what Prabowo said, but 12:26 I don't like it when he says "ethics, 12:29 your head." 12:31 He once said that, right? 12:32 >> Yes, that's right. 12:34 Yeah, people said it should be deleted 12:36 from his memory. 12:37 >> True, true, it must be erased. 12:39 >> Yes, he shouldn't say that because this 12:41 is the whole problem. He. 12:43 >> Even you were wiretapped because there 12:45 is no ethical path in the police, so you 12:47 were 12:48 >> wiretapped. So don't use that term 12:50 anymore. 12:52 >> So what BPIP means is that there should 12:54 be one, let's say, a body, whether it's 12:57 a national structure that oversees all 12:59 the ethics of state administrators. 13:03 In America, there is something called 13:04 the Office of Government Ethics. OGE. 13:07 It plays a role. 13:08 >> Yes. This Government Office can summon 13:10 anyone, can warn anyone, like the 13:12 Ombudsman, but it has no teeth, Bang, 13:15 like that, Bang. 13:17 >> Yes, but later we will be able to impose 13:19 sanctions on that. 13:20 So, it means like this. 13:23 >> If, for example, a minister says, "I 13:25 just met with the president, the KPK law 13:27 must be reviewed." 13:30 "What, what is your basis for saying 13:31 that?" 13:32 The law. 13:33 >> Yes, the president didn't say that, it's 13:35 just the minister. 13:37 >> Yes. So, the preventive element is more 13:39 important, Mr. Iksan, until if it fails 13:41 , then we take legal action. 13:43 >> Isn't that right? Take the LSP case as 13:45 an example. 13:46 >> Uh-huh. 13:47 >> Yes. The former National Police Chief 13:49 was wiretapping while he was still in 13:50 office. 13:51 >> Yes. 13:51 >> Why? 13:52 >> How could it happen when he ordered a 13:54 number of lines to be wiretapped? 13:56 >> Correct. 13:57 >> Because the ethics committee and the 13:59 people in that circle—I mean the 14:00 employees—were unable to enforce the 14:02 ethics. 14:03 They were afraid of their leader. Thrown 14:05 into a cage if not. 14:08 It was a bit different when we were at 14:10 the KPK, I always took examples. 14:13 >> If a KPK leader or employee made a small 14:15 mistake, I always took the example of 14:17 wearing short-sleeved batik. 14:20 >> Even though the rule was long-sleeved 14:21 batik, they would be reprimanded. 14:23 >> Oh. 14:23 >> Right? So, don't let ethics be left to 14:26 ... 14:28 >> run wild, because that has the potential 14:30 to violate the law. 14:31 >> What is that roughly? Goodness. Lastly, 14:34 Brother Saud. 14:35 >> Ready. 14:36 >> With a situation like this, how should 14:38 we maintain our peace of mind? 14:41 I often say on the radio, is this the 14:43 next play? 14:45 Because if you keep looking at it, we 14:47 could get sick from these kinds of 14:49 affairs and news we hear. 14:51 How do you maintain your peace of mind, 14:53 Brother Saud? People know more, so they 14:55 get more headaches hearing it. Do you 14:57 have a motto or something as a closing 14:59 to our talk this morning, Brother? 15:01 Yes, I only say this, that everything 15:04 has a standard in this republic. Hmm. 15:07 >> That standard was formed through a long 15:09 process. For example, if the standard is 15:11 Article 2, Article 3, 15:13 >> You must first prove the state's losses 15:15 . That is the standard. 15:16 >> Then we look for the next element. There 15:19 is an act of abuse of power or violation 15:21 of the law. That is the standard. 15:24 >> When that standard is made, there could 15:27 be technical issues. 15:29 Those technical issues should be solved 15:31 technically. For instance, is our way of 15:33 calculating those losses correct? 15:35 >> Now, if it's not correct, who calculates 15:38 it? That is also a problem. What is the 15:40 amount, and so on. So the standards made 15:43 are in the grand picture, let's say 15:45 Pancasila. 15:47 I am a bit, because I have dialogued 15:48 several times with the BPIP. 15:50 >> It seems like it's still in the clouds, 15:52 but it must be real. 15:54 >> Yes, correct. Those standards must be 15:55 written down and can be followed up. 15:57 Hmm. 15:58 >> Yes, that is politically. That is the 16:00 political side. Then, in terms of law, 16:01 as mentioned before, there is certainty 16:03 . 16:05 So if that certainty is not implemented 16:07 , as in this example, there will be 16:09 workarounds or hostage-taking. 16:12 We will just be waiting for the next one 16:14 . 16:15 >> In the next period, there will be 16:17 another new president, a new National 16:18 Police Chief, and then they'll wiretap 16:20 again. 16:21 >> Mas Iksan is still being bugged by me, 16:23 right? 16:25 So it means he 16:27 >> this is a lesson for us all and the 16:29 public, don't ever think of taking the 16:31 upcoming election lightly. 16:33 No. 16:34 >> In future elections, there will be no 16:36 more "parcok-parcok" terms. 16:37 >> There will be no more bribery. 16:40 >> There will be no more people coming to 16:41 the voting booth 16:42 >> only coming to the voting booth if given 16:44 money. No. That's not allowed. 16:46 >> We must mandate them to attend if 16:48 necessary. Like that, Mas. 16:49 >> That's it. Thank you, Bang Saud 16:51 Situmorang, for accompanying listeners 16:53 in various places this morning. Let's 16:55 meet another time, hopefully more often 16:57 , Bang Saud. Thank you, Bang Saud. 16:59 >> any. Thank you. Thanks, see you again. 17:02 Assalamualaikum. 17:04 >> Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi 17:05 wabarakatuh. 
