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0:09 Brail TV. 0:16 Peace be upon you, and Allah's mercy 0:18 and blessings. How are you, Bang 0:20 Ihsanuddin Nursi? 0:22 Peace be upon you, and Allah's mercy 0:24 and blessings. 0:26 Yes, thank God, we are independent. God 0:29 is the Greatest. That is a phrase that 0:31 was often mentioned 81 years ago, isn't 0:34 it? Bang Ihsanuddin Nursi, every 0:38 Independence Day, especially on August 0:41 18th, people ask again, how did the 0:43 Committee of Nine, which mentioned the 0:45 Jakarta Charter, end up changing it by 0:48 August 17th and presenting it on August 0:50 18th? BPUPKI initiated it like that, 0:55 and what was the process behind it all? 0:58 Surely, Bang Ihsanuddin Nursi knows 1:00 about this, so please share the story 1:03 behind it for the listeners. But the 1:08 situation in the Middle East also 1:09 remains a story that seems to affect 1:11 the global economy. There is the Mecca 1:16 Defense Pact, and also the Bab 1:18 al-Mandab Defense Pact. That one 1:20 involves over a dozen countries. This 1:22 one involves three countries. But does 1:24 this have an impact on the movement? 1:27 And of course, the story of the DPR's 1:30 socialization regarding Pancasila is 1:32 another story. And there is something 1:36 new after QRIS, Bank Indonesia will 1:38 inaugurate the Indonesian Credit Card ( 1:41 KKI). Is this usury-based again, or 1:45 what is it, Bang Ihsanuddin Nursi? 1:47 Perhaps there is something else you 1:49 want to convey, a story that listeners 1:51 should hear from Bang Ihsanuddin Nursi. 1:54 We invite you to spend the next 40 1:56 minutes with us, wherever you are on 1:58 Earth. Please, Bang. 2:02 Alright, let's start with the Mecca 2:04 Defense Pact and the Bab defense pact. 2:08 Bab al-Mandab. 2:11 Hm. 2:13 Uh, we already discussed the Mecca 2:15 Defense Pact last week. But if we want 2:19 to delve deeper 2:20 Yeah. Uh this is actually a continued 2:25 success for Washington and Tel Aviv in 2:28 dividing Islam. Yes. 2:34 So one of the major themes, if I may 2:36 say, is how Tel Aviv and Washington 2:38 must uh continue to divide Islam. 2:45 Hm. Imagine if they no longer thought 2:48 about a Sunni Mecca Pact, but became an 2:51 Islamic Mecca Pact. Yeah. 2:55 Even though they call it the Mecca Pact 2:57 , we shouldn't be in a position of 2:59 fragmentation. 3:01 Yeah. 3:02 We shouldn't be in a divided position 3:04 by mentioning Shia and Sunni. 3:05 Yeah. 3:06 Because after all, the Quran is the 3:08 same, the Prophet is the same, God is 3:10 the same, right? 3:11 Correct. Uh, if they took that approach 3:14 and if they truly united, it would 3:16 certainly be different. But because 3:21 they are still in a position of valuing 3:23 one group more than the other, the 3:25 story becomes like this. Now, the Mecca 3:30 Pact. The Mecca Pact itself, as we 3:34 discussed last week, uh, this is 3:36 actually, uh, also an admission that 3:43 Washington is no longer able to protect 3:46 Saudi. 3:46 Hm. 3:48 That is the other side. So Saudi itself 3:50 considers that Washington is no longer 3:52 able to protect them. With that, it is 3:56 also actually visible that the military 3:58 bases in Saudi, in Riyadh or wherever 4:00 in the Saudi region, actually do not 4:02 play much of a role. Amidst the fact 4:10 that Saudi has spent tens of billions 4:12 on weaponry and how the joint defense 4:13 pact with America, with those military 4:15 bases, has consumed such huge costs for 4:17 their development. 4:23 Hm. But because it was realized that it 4:25 provided no benefit to Saudi, the 4:27 Makkah Pact was established. Now, the 4:31 Makkah Pact itself illustrates that 4:33 Pakistan is truly considered a nuclear 4:35 possessor. 4:38 Hm. Because when Pakistan is considered 4:43 a nuclear power, this Makkah Pact 4:45 essentially shows that whoever 4:46 threatens these three countries, 4:48 because its status is like a NATO pact, 4:52 then nuclear weapons will speak. So 4:54 there is another nuclear power, you see 4:56 . 4:57 Now, but when talking about nuclear, 4:59 there is no country in the world that 5:01 has the most nuclear warheads except 5:03 America. Heh. Heh. 5:06 So, uh, the veteran position, the 5:08 veteran position 5:10 heh 5:11 that, that illustrates it still belongs 5:13 to America, not to Pakistan, Turkey, or 5:17 or Saudi Arabia. But it still belongs 5:19 to America. And that global stage is 5:21 still held in military terms, from a 5:23 military perspective, it is still held 5:25 by America. The sophistication of, uh, 5:32 floating airbases with its, uh, 5:34 aircraft carriers, with a number of its 5:36 forces, as well as its satellite power. 5:42 Even yesterday, Trump's statement was 5:44 clear: we are the leading nation in 5:46 technology, leading technology in 5:48 various ways. After what is called 5:52 asking, asking a number of private 5:54 corporations to enter the missile 5:56 sector, it was accelerated more 5:59 more than the usual. Now, 6:03 this means that when faced with the 6:05 Gulf states, we can once again see that 6:07 the Gulf countries are indeed kept in a 6:09 divided position. Because if those Gulf 6:14 countries were not divided, Israel 6:15 would be powerless. 6:18 Even though Israel has nuclear weapons. 6:20 Even though they have nukes, Israel 6:22 would be powerless. If all those 6:23 countries were united. So again, this 6:26 is a configuration stating that Tel 6:28 Aviv and Washington have successfully 6:30 divided Islam. If we say this is 6:35 dividing Islam, then the battle is not 6:37 just a military battle or an energy 6:39 battle or a digital battle, but a 6:41 religious battle. 6:43 Ideology. 6:44 An ideological battle. If you want to 6:46 say ideology is too mild, it's just a 6:48 religious battle. 6:49 H 6:49 like that. 6:50 It's proven if the picture is like that 6:52 . Now, 6:53 the problem now returns to us. 6:56 How is our question as the best ummah? 6:59 How is our question as one single ummah 7:00 ? How is the question? That we uphold " 7:04 Qul huwallahu ahad." That is, so yes, 7:11 so don't, don't, what is the word, 7:12 don't let us say it but then we don't 7:15 do it. That is what 7:17 Yes. Yes. And it seems diplomatically, 7:22 the Iranian ambassador to Indonesia has 7:24 conveyed from the beginning the 7:26 importance of Indonesia's role, which 7:28 we may or may not have realized—our 7:30 role with the minister of war's visit 7:32 and also our military exercises in 7:34 Taiwan becomes another story, brother. 7:38 Okay. Now, that was also stated 7:42 yesterday by, uh, by the Pakistani 7:44 Ambassador at the anniversary 7:45 commemoration in Pakistan in Rawalpindi 7:48 . 7:49 So they consider 7:50 this, this is also a defense pact 7:53 in order to protect interests. Now, in 7:55 fact, 7:57 from the ambassador's statement, it 7:59 shows that there is deep competition 8:01 among Islamic countries 8:03 from the condition of their respective 8:05 countries. 8:06 So, the Islamic bond, the Islamic 8:08 ukhuwah, right? 8:10 The Islamic brotherhood is not there. 8:13 If, if you take it that way. So if we 8:15 look back at the story of how 8:17 ambassadors, 8:19 each party's ambassadors still state it 8:21 that way. 8:23 Yes. There is no, there is no, there is 8:28 no 'ummah' there. There is no such term 8:32 as 'ummatan wahidah'. Now, that is 8:34 where we find the formula 8:36 that the closeness of hearts, the 8:38 closeness of hearts to one another is 8:39 my business. 8:41 Yes. But when it is said to be my 8:44 business, it actually depends greatly 8:45 on our sincerity. Uh, how sincere we 8:49 are, our devotion, you know. Yes. 8:52 That is in facing challenges, threats, 8:54 and disturbances. If, if, ah, here, if 8:57 I see it, 9:00 in the future military landscape, 9:04 in the future digital landscape, in the 9:06 future financial landscape, uh, America 9:08 is still on top. 9:12 In dealing with the Gulf countries. 9:14 Although quite frustrated, right, the 9:16 Oman issue was even threatened, wasn't 9:18 it? 9:21 It didn't end up... 9:23 In the end, Jared Kushner's business 9:25 meeting Hamas was irrelevant because 9:27 they... 9:29 they could still, could still dictate. 9:32 No history proves that Jared Kushner is 9:34 a negotiator. There is none, there is 9:37 no experience there. It's not just 9:39 about experience. But there is nothing 9:42 in American history 9:43 that shows a Jared Kushner is 9:46 a person who has enough capacity and 9:48 competence, sir. In the media, 9:50 he is emphasized... 9:51 In the media, in the media. 9:52 Yes. 9:53 American media itself mocks that sort 9:55 of thing, quite derisive about it. So 9:59 that battle, again, when asking 10:00 Indonesia, the Indonesian side should 10:02 be able to reconcile the story of how 10:04 Shia and Sunni are. 10:07 Hm. Our presence should be like that, 10:11 we, uh, we can approach with... 10:14 Yes, we have an Iranian embassy, we 10:15 have embassies of all those countries, 10:18 except for an Israeli embassy. 10:20 Although Israel still... 10:21 can... 10:23 although Israel still operates in 10:24 Indonesia. 10:28 Hm. 10:29 That is the reality of Indonesia. Now, 10:31 once we return to Indonesia, once we 10:33 look, 10:34 that is where we truly 10:36 fail to apply Pancasila because 10:38 Pancasila is 10:40 universal points. 10:41 Hm. 10:43 Now, let alone going outward to 10:45 practice the points of Pancasila, even 10:47 internally we fail. 10:50 That is... 10:50 that is a failure. So if, if I use, I 10:53 use the term gap and gain, you know, 10:57 there is a gap and there is a gain, you 10:59 know. We know that Pancasila's points 11:02 are such. Belief in the One Almighty 11:05 God, right? Now, once you enter Belief 11:07 in the One Almighty God, it's... 11:09 the interpretation... 11:10 with the obligation to carry out Sharia 11:12 for adherents of Islam, you know. For 11:14 its adherents, it was removed, 11:15 right? 11:16 Taken off. 11:17 Now. That shows that 11:21 the battle between the Islamic group 11:23 those who are Muslim and the 11:25 non-Islamic group. Yes. 11:26 If using the study, the study by G, 11:29 there are three other groups that Islam 11:31 faces, including the Freemason group, 11:33 the 3G group, you know. 11:35 Yes. 11:37 I'm just speaking openly here. I'm just 11:39 speaking openly here. 11:41 Are there? 11:44 It is represented there, you know. 11:47 Even though they are not, even though 11:49 it's not them, it is there. So, 11:51 H 11:54 that is where they do not want Islam to 11:55 enter into structural norms. They only 12:00 want to see Islam practiced culturally. 12:03 That means 12:04 the Muslim majority in Indonesia is 12:06 useless, then. 12:08 Because it can be done culturally. Wait 12:11 , we know that if it is done culturally 12:13 , the struggle is extraordinary. And it 12:16 could be that the structural and 12:17 cultural norms are in conflict. They 12:20 don't align. So, so, the story about 12:24 the formulation of Belief in the One 12:26 Supreme God, the divinity 12:29 with the obligation to carry out 12:30 Islamic Sharia for its adherents 12:33 and 12:33 and then it was removed to become just 12:35 Belief in the One Supreme God. Then 12:37 later, the President must be a native 12:39 Indonesian who is a Muslim. "Who is a 12:41 Muslim" was also removed, just 12:43 disappeared like that. So, in reality, 12:45 when returning again to 12:48 the July 5, 1959 decree, by stating 12:50 that the Constitution is inspired by 12:52 the Jakarta Charter, right, because of 12:55 the deadlock in ideological debate, it 12:57 shows 12:58 h 12:59 this, in my lecture in one place, it 13:01 shows 13:02 that in the preamble, the Jakarta 13:04 Charter has not disappeared. 13:05 Hm. It shows that Islam, politically, 13:11 has lost because it did not become a 13:13 basic norm. 13:16 H 13:17 It only became a mere cultural norm. 13:20 Well, this political defeat continued 13:22 until finally Masyumi dissolved itself 13:25 until finally up to now. So, if you 13:30 look at the big battle, looking at the 13:32 big battle within the country with the 13:34 Pancasila story like that, in reality, 13:36 Islam has already lost since the change 13:38 from August 17 to August 18, when those 13:40 seven keywords disappeared, and 13:42 disappeared even more when entering the 13:44 position of the 1950 Constitution, 13:46 disappeared more, disappeared even more 13:49 when speaking of July 5, 1959, and up 13:51 to now. 13:53 Hm. 13:54 Until now. And what is most real now is 13:57 where secularism is rampant, secularism 13:59 is institutionalized. So when there was 14:02 , when last week we also talked about a 14:04 shadow cabinet, 14:06 I said that it is far from what is 14:07 expected. 14:09 They are proven to only want to change 14:11 the regime but do not want to fix this 14:13 broken system. 14:15 So it means when we again have a desire 14:17 to socialize Pancasila, how can we, 14:19 when the application of the 14:21 constitution contradicts Pancasila? It 14:24 just makes us a hypocritical nation. So 14:28 the interpretation, yes, the 14:29 interpretation is wrong; cooperatives 14:31 are interpreted as red and white 14:33 cooperatives like this, right. H 14:36 Yes, meaning if we want to take 14:40 want to take Pancasila in the 14:41 perspective of the 1945 Constitution, 14:43 between the body that does not match 14:45 the preamble, that is a hypocritical 14:47 nation. 14:49 Then what Pancasila are you defending? 14:52 Pancasila which refers to the 4th 14:54 paragraph, but then behind it, it does 14:56 not align with the 2nd and 3rd 14:57 paragraphs. 15:00 What is the story of the second 15:01 paragraph? It speaks of an Indonesia 15:03 that is independent, sovereign, just, 15:05 and prosperous. We are sovereign, 15:08 independent, yes, but not sovereign. 15:11 How about it? 15:13 Is it just? Not really. Prosperous? No. 15:15 Not really. That is the vision. In the 15:18 mission, we can see the protection of 15:20 the entire nation's blood spilled. Is 15:23 there any advancement of general 15:25 welfare? 15:27 Is there any improvement in welfare and 15:29 the intellectual life of the nation? 15:32 Not really. We are a mess. So, it means 15:37 when we talk about Pancasila and its 15:39 history, that is where we begin. 15:42 Hm. 15:45 When it was declared on August 17, '45, 15:48 as independence 15:50 H 15:52 we, the people of Indonesia, [declare] 15:54 the transfer of power carefully 15:57 signed, right? 15:59 Yes. Soekarno and. Then they said there 16:03 was a group from Eastern Indonesia that 16:04 wouldn't join if the wording was like 16:06 that 16:07 so they said. 16:08 So there were words 16:09 they said, but it was not proven. 16:11 H 16:12 it was very difficult to prove, you see 16:14 . 16:14 Although there were rumors circulating 16:16 that I.J. Kasimo, a Catholic, actually 16:18 did not object to those seven keywords. 16:21 Hm. H 16:22 that. Now, it means if we take the 16:26 perspective of change, then on August 16:29 18, when it was ratified as the 1945 16:31 Constitution by removing the obligation 16:37 to carry out Islamic Sharia for its 16:39 adherents and removing [the requirement 16:41 ] that the president be an Indonesian 16:43 native. Gone is the Islamic religious 16:45 part. Gone is the Islamic religious 16:47 part. So there, you can see the victory 16:50 , the victory of certain parties. There 16:53 , secular principles took over. Done. 16:56 Hm. 16:56 So, it is allowed to have "Belief in 16:58 the One and Only God." Because "Belief 17:00 in the One and Only God" depends 17:01 entirely on individual interpretation. 17:03 Now, when I enter that perspective, 17:07 I mention that in the reform era, there 17:09 was always a rejection of this sentence 17:11 : this is not a religious state, right? 17:15 Yes. This is not a religious state. You 17:17 know there are sentences like that. 17:19 Like that. 17:19 I said, it's true, it is indeed not a 17:21 religious state 17:22 but a state that is religious. Meaning, 17:25 because you still include "Belief in 17:26 the One and Only God" in the first 17:28 principle, you still acknowledge in the 17:30 body of the constitution that the state 17:32 is based on "Belief in the One and Only 17:33 God." Article 29, paragraph 1. 17:36 So, in reality, this state is a 17:38 religious state. So if you then play a 17:41 secular life position, then this state 17:43 becomes a non-religious state. 17:47 He. 17:47 Because you only exalt materialism. 17:50 Hm. 17:51 You only uphold, fight for, and enforce 17:53 that system of materialism to the 17:55 fullest. So, to put it politely, you 17:58 have turned your back on Pancasila, 17:59 turned your back on the constitution. 18:01 For me, it’s no longer turning my 18:03 back, it’s betraying. Sir. 18:06 Hmm. Yes. Extraordinary. 18:10 If constitutionally we have already 18:12 betrayed it, then don't be surprised, 18:14 as I said, we will continue to 18:15 experience a multidimensional crisis. 18:18 There is socio-distrust, a lack of 18:20 trust in one another's lives. There is 18:23 social disorder, a chaotic life like in 18:25 my book. 18:27 There is then social disobedience, 18:29 social defiance. So don't be surprised 18:33 if in these 81 years, there are flags 18:35 being raised 18:38 over there in Aceh 18:40 from one end to the other, you see. 18:43 And the sultanates are also just 18:44 waiting for it to happen, right? Not to 18:47 mention the others. 18:49 H 18:50 it means 18:51 we are indeed in a multidimensional 18:53 crisis. Now, in a construction like 18:55 this, the question that arises is the 18:57 role of national leadership. The role 19:00 of the national leader. So it is not 19:02 just about national leadership, but 19:04 also the role of a national leader. Now 19:07 , when entering the position of a 19:09 national leader's role, the third 19:10 paragraph appears, 19:13 by the grace of the Almighty God 19:17 and driven by the desire. Your power is 19:20 not power because you won an election. 19:22 Hm. 19:24 Your power is power because God permits 19:26 it. Now, the position of God allowing 19:28 you to rule has a dual meaning. 19:30 The first meaning is that God truly 19:31 approves of you ruling, right? 19:33 Second, 19:34 rightfully. The second one, it will be 19:36 proven whether you are actually 19:38 deceiving or not with that power. 19:42 So it's like*istidraj*, right, brother? 19:44 Yes, that's correct. Correct. Sort of* 19:47 istidraj*. So the meaning is double. We 19:49 must look at that. There we want to 19:51 prove what kind of 19:53 the characteristics of a leader that 19:55 the Prophet conveyed are simple, just 19:57 like a country that is setting an 19:58 example over there, is it not? 20:03 People then turn their eyes to Iran. 20:06 Iran is great, a small country whose 20:08 GDP is insignificant but can defend and 20:10 show its dignity on the world stage. 20:13 Well, the Indonesian system is greater 20:15 than that if you actually implemented 20:17 the small system. H. 20:18 But because the system you are 20:20 recording is a betraying system, that 20:21 is why you are like this now. What must 20:24 be understood is that? 20:27 If in Iran, it is the clerics who 20:29 determine the leader. If in the 20:33 Indonesian system, clerics work 20:34 together with various groups who remain 20:36 religious. Repeat, repeat, repeat. The 20:39 important sentence is here. H 20:42 clerics together with various groups 20:44 who remain religious determine who the 20:45 leader is. That is the role of the MPR. 20:49 Because the sentence is DPR. H 20:53 The MPR consists of the DPR, regional 20:55 representatives, and group 20:57 representatives. That means there are 20:59 clerics, other groups who are religious 21:01 , and political groups that are also 21:03 religious. So that religious attitude 21:06 is what appears in the MPR so that this 21:08 country does not become a secular state 21:10 . That is truly its soul if you want to 21:13 take it. It is greater than Iran. But 21:17 it was amputated. 21:18 Hm. 21:19 Amputated thoroughly. Degraded. This 21:25 country is actually cool if it is in 21:26 accordance with, but the phrase " 21:28 constitution" always becomes jargon, " 21:30 in accordance with the constitution," 21:32 it's always like that, brother. How is 21:34 it, brother? 21:34 Yes. Now. 21:35 Now. When it is said "in accordance 21:37 with the constitution," Ihsanuddin 21:39 Nursi's question arises. 21:40 Which constitution are you enforcing 21:42 exactly? Because 21:45 today there are two constitutions in 21:46 effect. 21:48 He 21:49 the 1945 Constitution 21:54 which was set on August 18, 1945, 21:56 confirmed by the Presidential Decree of 21:59 July 5, '59, or the constitution set on 22:01 August 10, 2002, which claims to be the 22:04 same as the '45 Constitution. 22:08 Hm. Repeat, which claims to be the same 22:11 as the original '45 Constitution, which 22:14 one, try to guess? 22:15 Exactly. 22:16 Confusing, right? Well, the answer is, 22:20 because they want to manipulate the '45 22:23 Constitution, they say the Constitution 22:25 that has been amended four times is the 22:27 same as the original '45 Constitution, 22:29 even though it is different. 22:34 So, from there my study emerged that 22:36 there are effectively two constitutions 22:38 in this country, theoretically. 22:41 H 22:41 Two constitutions apply. Theoretically, 22:44 it is the application of the original 22:46 1945 Constitution and the August 10, 22:48 2002 Constitution. 22:50 Hm. 22:50 De facto, what applies is 2002. 22:54 Like that. 22:55 Now, because the 2002 version is in 22:57 conflict with Pancasila and conflicts 22:59 with the Preamble, this country has 23:01 become a mess. 23:03 Suddenly, reason is coming back, they 23:05 say. But today, brother, today—August 23:10 has many issues, right? But the Student 23:14 Executive Board is busy preparing rice 23:16 cakes and so on. This is for the 23:18 demonstration after the noon prayer 23:20 later. 15 faculty student bodies and 25 23:24 institutions outside of UI are prepared 23:26 to take to the streets. Thousands. What 23:31 is happening with the current situation 23:33 ? Is it that repressive, or must there 23:38 still be those who speak out against 23:40 evil—a sentence easy to say but not 23:42 easy to do, sir. 23:48 First, constitutionally, the 23:50 Constitutional Court's decision 23:53 regarding Gibran Rakabuming might be 23:54 correct. 23:55 Possibly correct. 23:57 From the Sir, pay attention to the 24:00 logic first. Uh-huh. Listen carefully. 24:02 That the Constitutional Court's 24:04 decision on Gibran Rakabuming as Vice 24:06 Presidential candidate—now Vice 24:08 President—is constitutionally valid. 24:11 But the question is 24:13 does the Constitutional Court's 24:14 decision on that constitutional matter 24:16 align with its juridical-philosophical 24:18 and juridical-sociological foundations? 24:20 He 24:23 Let me repeat it. These are academic 24:25 questions. Academic questions. 24:28 Maybe so. I said earlier, perhaps the 24:31 Constitutional Court's decision 24:32 validating Gibran Rakabuming as a 24:34 presidential candidate—now Vice 24:36 President—might be constitutionally 24:38 correct, even though the constitutional 24:40 basis is already a messy constitution. 24:43 Okay. 24:44 H 24:45 Okay, right. So, the next question is 24:51 does that constitutional decision align 24:53 with the juridical-sociological and 24:55 juridical-philosophical aspects? 24:58 Hm. No one can answer that. That is 25:01 what I said yesterday. So if someone— 25:04 if Jimly Asshiddiqie says not to 25:05 question Gibran's diploma at the event 25:08 yesterday 25:10 on Sunday 25:11 at the book launch "Guiding the 25:13 Revolution and Straightening Out 25:15 Indonesia," right? Jimly stated not to 25:17 question Gibran's diploma because he 25:19 doesn't want his own decision to be 25:20 questioned. MKMK 90. 25:23 H 25:24 Which is clearly disjointed. Ah, here 25:26 the sentence is that it is disjointed. 25:28 It has a gap with the 25:29 juridical-sociological and 25:31 juridical-philosophical aspects. 25:34 To the point where people say, "How 25:35 could someone like that become a vice 25:37 presidential candidate? How could 25:39 someone like that become a vice 25:41 president?" Those 25:43 juridical-sociological and 25:44 juridical-philosophical logics cannot 25:46 be answered simply. In other words, the 25:49 gap between the facts in society, the 25:51 gap in societal values, and general 25:53 public aspirations are actually in 25:55 conflict with the Constitutional 25:57 Court's decision. That is what I call a 26:01 gap. The gap there creates a gain for 26:05 them. Now, that is where the major 26:09 political battle lies. So there is a 26:11 massive political battle that—let's 26:13 say—has existed for a long time, 26:15 since 1926. 26:18 H 26:19 Then it appeared in 1948, then in 26:21 1965-66, then it appeared now; it has 26:24 never ended. 26:26 Hm. 26:27 The same applies to the pragmatic 26:28 nationalist groups, the liberal 26:30 nationalists, you know, those who are 26:32 aware of that. The same applies to 26:33 other religious groups as well. It 26:35 seems as if—this is where what I said 26:37 earlier comes in—this is proof of how 26:39 the influence of the Freemasons, how 26:40 the influence of the 3G, is firmly 26:42 rooted. 26:44 The solidity of the Freemason influence 26:46 , the solidity of the 3G influence, has 26:49 entered the Indonesian curriculum, the 26:51 Indonesian education curriculum, the 26:52 political curriculum in Indonesia, and 26:54 Indonesia's economic curriculum. 26:56 Hmm. This is this primacy 26:59 in other words, actually 27:00 go on, please. In other words, the 27:04 truth is that the Muslim community in 27:06 Indonesia is in a cornered position, so 27:08 it has become like foam. 27:11 H 27:12 it has become like foam. And there 27:14 isn't a single leader who says, "Wow, 27:15 if you really want to return to the 27:17 original constitution, please go ahead. 27:19 ""We would also be happy if the DPR or 27:21 MPR buildings were occupied." Wait, 27:22 that is not what it means. It means you 27:25 prefer change through violence, through 27:26 revolution. 27:27 Yeah. 27:28 That is not the statement of a leader. 27:30 Hm. H 27:31 that is the statement of someone 27:33 enjoying their position. 27:35 Let me repeat. I am speaking, I am 27:37 speaking quite firmly. Speaking a bit 27:39 even though it sounds firm. 27:41 Forgive me. 27:42 When you say "please go ahead and 27:44 occupy the MPR or DPR," 27:46 if you truly want to return to the 1945 27:49 Constitution, right? 27:50 Because they are looking for what is 27:52 most effective, that's it. If you 27:53 follow the constitution, it's a long 27:55 story, you see. 27:56 Yes. 27:57 Yes. The situation is that when they 27:59 say, "please go ahead and occupy the 28:01 MPR, we would also be happy," that 28:03 shows that you are just enjoying power, 28:05 not fighting for the upholding of truth 28:07 . 28:07 Because in the end, it’s them again. 28:11 Hm. 28:11 No, no, no. The philosophy isn't about 28:14 dialogue, but the philosophy is that 28:16 you are merely an enjoyer of power, you 28:18 are not a fighter for the upholding of 28:20 truth within power. 28:21 You are not in a position of* 28:23 inansahumitamakum*. You are not in a 28:26 position of fighting for goodness and 28:28 truth. You are only enjoying the power 28:30 derived from that false truth. That is 28:33 the important sentence. That is what is 28:36 happening in this country. How many 28:38 people are enjoying power on top of 28:40 that false constitution, you see. 28:43 That is the dire condition, until 28:45 finally, it leads to the current 28:47 situation where various kinds of 28:48 demonstrations emerge. H 28:52 they only feel the consequences, but 28:54 they never want to measure, to trace, 28:56 to track, 29:00 to flashback. Why is the situation like 29:03 this now? The situation is like this 29:07 now because there was a betrayal of the 29:08 constitution, a betrayal of the spirit 29:10 of the republic's struggle, and a 29:12 betrayal of the desire to uphold the 29:14 nation's dignity. If it were based on 29:17 the original 1945 Constitution, in the 29:19 midst of it, the original is considered 29:22 the same as the amendment, you see. He 29:24 that is how they see it. 29:26 Huh? Yes. Well, in the end, nature will 29:30 speak, right? Because betrayal doesn't 29:33 just happen in Indonesia; in various 29:35 places, it is often answered by nature. 29:38 Look at Mount Krakatoa, it’s already 29:40 coughing. Earthquakes were everywhere 29:41 just yesterday. But some people say, " 29:43 Ah, that’s natural." Is it truly the 29:46 time for this reminder, brother? 29:50 Well, that statement of "natural" shows 29:52 that, you know, 29:55 it 29:57 they are unable to see the connection 29:58 of how human movement affects nature. 30:02 Nature reacts. They don't understand, 30:06 they don't understand how every human 30:08 movement, every human behavior affects 30:10 things, especially leaders, they have 30:12 an impact. I will give you an example 30:14 like this. Yeah. 30:15 If you don't believe that nature is 30:17 affected by your movements, 30:19 keep a certain distance. 30:22 Hang a tissue, you hold it, and you let 30:24 it hang. 30:25 Yeah. 30:26 Your hand moves as if fanning it from a 30:27 certain distance, 30:29 does the tissue move or not? 30:30 It moves, right. 30:31 It moves. 30:32 It surely moves. Meaning every movement 30:35 of yours, every word of yours, affects 30:37 God's creation. Now, when your 30:41 movements, words, and thoughts are all 30:43 negative, then God will seek a new 30:45 balance. 30:47 Now, that balance is God's law. 30:50 Mizan. 30:52 Whoever destroys the balance that I 30:54 have created will surely face the 30:55 consequences. Oh, is that how you see 30:58 it? Whoever destroys the balance will 31:00 surely face the consequences. So the 31:03 earthquake in NTT, for instance, or 31:05 Rokatenda which has started to rumble, 31:08 or as we know, what happened some years 31:10 ago in Palu, 31:15 and it also happened in NTB as well. 31:17 It shows that in reality 31:21 this nation is in a state of motion 31:22 that has disrupted the balance 31:27 and it will certainly claim victims, it 31:29 definitely will. Whether it's human 31:31 lives or material losses, that is a 31:33 secondary matter. But that balance will 31:35 continue to emerge, that is how I see 31:37 it. So, if we look at the current 31:40 situation, it is because we are indeed 31:42 experiencing a multidimensional crisis. 31:46 The multidimensional crisis I mentioned 31:48 earlier is indicated by three things. 31:52 Political, social, and economic 31:54 distrust; political, economic, and 31:56 social disobedience; political, 31:58 economic, and social disorder and 32:01 disobedience. It demonstrates and 32:04 illustrates that there is a morality 32:05 problem in this nation. 32:08 It's the same as on the international 32:10 stage; there is a morality problem on 32:12 the international stage, even though it 32:14 has been going on for centuries, 32:17 you know, but at the very least, that 32:19 is the turning of time. Now, in line 32:22 with my book, 32:24 we are not yet free, welcome to a 32:26 chaotic land, right? The nation is 32:29 divided, a national calamity. 32:32 I don't feel anything except that I 32:34 want to say, "Let's be vigilant, let's 32:36 anticipate." 32:39 That is how I see how to reconstruct it 32:40 . I've already said, if you want to 32:44 reconstruct it, I've already spoken 32:46 about it before, I'm not asking you, 32:48 I'm telling you: here is the 32:49 reconstruction, this is the way of 32:51 thinking, even how Article 33 on 32:53 cooperatives, I have already formulated 32:55 it to the best of my ability, not 32:57 within the understanding 32:59 not within the left wing, not within 33:01 the right wing, but within the 33:02 Indonesian understanding, you know. 33:07 Masyaallah, actually 7 years ago you 33:09 were in contact with them, but it 33:11 seemed difficult. There was a bumper, 33:15 right? It seems there is a story behind 33:18 the story, give us a little leak, 33:20 Brother. What was it actually? 33:24 Masyaallah. What is certain is 33:28 I cannot work with those who are called 33:31 ee groups that are hostile to God, 33:33 hostile to Allah. 33:34 Oh, that's 33:37 that is the point. 33:38 I cannot mingle with them. I cannot sit 33:41 together, I cannot 33:43 cannot work together, to be precise. 33:46 Or perhaps they even feel 33:49 that I am a dangerous person or someone 33:51 very disliked because it means I am 33:53 hostile to their ways of thinking. That 33:55 could be so. Ihsanuddin Nursi has 33:59 become a truth among some 34:02 mashallah. 34:04 some, that is, some of the authorities, 34:06 not some ordinary people. Oh yes, yes. 34:10 Mashallah. 3 minutes until 40 minutes. 34:14 What does Brother Ihsanuddin Nursi want 34:16 to convey at 81 years? Independence, 34:19 which we seem to be celebrating quite 34:21 festively, even though ee flag sellers 34:23 are decreasing now, Brother. It is said 34:26 it is down by up to 75%. Is this 34:29 because of the economy or is 34:30 nationalism fading among these children 34:32 of the nation? If nationalism is fading 34:38 , I stated it as early as 1983 before a 34:42 at that time his status was a junior 34:44 minister 34:46 you know, who later became a minister 34:48 in succession and then one of those who 34:50 ee who later was one of those who did 34:52 not support Soeharto at their meeting 34:54 in May '98. 34:57 ee I already expressed that to him so 34:59 deeply back then, so it means that 40- 35:01 something years ago I had already 35:03 stated that there was a crisis of 35:05 patriotism, a crisis of idealism, a 35:07 crisis of nationalism. In '83, 35:10 hm. 35:10 I said that, that was my question to 35:12 him. At that time, I was a journalist. 35:14 Hm. 35:14 At that time, I was a journalist. 35:17 So I said, why do I see a crisis of 35:19 nationalism, I see a crisis of idealism 35:21 , I said, and a crisis of patriotism 35:23 emerging, everything is all about money 35:25 , all about money, all about money. I 35:27 had already sensed that. Everything is 35:29 transactional, materialistic, that's my 35:31 term for it. Then he admitted it in '94 35:34 , and people only felt it during the 35:36 reform era. 35:38 Hm. 35:42 Now, from there is truly the picture of 35:44 how this nation has faced the 35:45 institutionalization of secularism. 35:51 Hm. 35:53 Now, if that is the story, then to face 35:56 that secular situation, right, bring 35:58 this nation back to its tracks. Not 36:02 regressing, not going backward, not 36:04 reverting the way of thinking. Actually 36:06 , reverting thinking is not regressing. 36:08 Ee. 36:10 If you are already lost in your way of 36:11 thinking, you are lost in your thinking 36:13 , 36:14 you must go back, right? Just like if 36:17 you, for example, make a mistake, you 36:19 repent, that means you are going back, 36:21 right? What is wrong with that? 36:23 Why must you say that if we return to 36:25 the '45 Constitution, then we are 36:27 regressing? That is materialist 36:28 thinking. Do you understand that 36:30 sentence? So those who state that 36:32 returning to '45 is materialism and 36:34 that it enforces an authoritarian 36:35 regime like the Soeharto era, that 36:37 shows how they do not understand the 36:39 methodology of thinking and the 36:41 configuration of knowledge. 36:43 Whoever they are, including Amien Rais, 36:45 for example, 36:46 even if he thinks that way. 36:48 Oh, we are regressing if we return to 36:51 '45, that is materialist thinking. 36:53 Because thinking of moving backward is 36:55 physical. 36:56 In thought, it does not exist. There is 36:58 no such thing as moving backward or 36:59 regressing. There is none. 37:00 I remember a scholar who said, "Ustadz, 37:03 don't keep looking at the rearview 37:04 mirror.""Well, the Quran is in the past 37:07 and we are in history, so it's 37:09 difficult that way, brother." 37:13 Now, if you are told not to look at the 37:15 rearview mirror, it means you are not 37:17 skilled at maintaining perspective, 37:18 reflection, position, and projection. 37:22 Hmm. 37:25 If someone states that, it means they 37:27 are unable to think through reflection. 37:29 position, and projection. 37:31 Hmm. 37:32 The Quran depicts all three: yesterday, 37:34 today, and what is to come. 37:36 Hmm. 37:37 The Quran states that they learned from 37:39 their ancestors, but that error was 37:40 corrected. 37:41 Hmm. 37:41 Straighten it out, then 'iqra bismi 37:43 rabbikal ladzi khalaq' emerges, you see 37:46 . Corrected because the error was 37:48 positioned, then 'la haula wala quwwata 37:51 illa billah' stands firm, then 'la 37:53 tusyrik billah, amantu billah' stands 37:55 firm. That positioning and projection 37:58 is a choice for you. Do you want to 38:00 practice 'la tusyrik billah, amantu 38:02 billah' or remain with what is called ' 38:04 amantu bit-taghut'? 38:05 Hm. 38:06 Masyaallah. 38:07 The choice is yours. So if someone says 38:10 something like that, they don't 38:11 understand the methodology of thinking. 38:13 Their thinking methodology, sorry to 38:16 say, I have to state clearly, is 38:17 unsophisticated and outdated. So don't 38:21 speak carelessly if you don't 38:22 understand the methodology. Tell that 38:24 to an ustadz who talks like that. 38:28 Really, I'm saying this for real. 38:32 Teach me about the methodology of 38:34 Quranic thinking. 38:36 Really. I'm serious about saying this. 38:38 Invite me anywhere, let's discuss and 38:40 exchange ideas. I am ready for that. 38:42 Masyaallah. 38:43 That's how it is. 38:45 Extraordinary. 38:47 Please forgive me for this. If I seem 38:50 firm and harsh. Because I truly regret 38:53 many scholars and ustadz who are unable 38:55 to think about 38:56 how to reflect, 38:59 how to position, and how to project. 39:01 Even though it is taught in the Quranic 39:03 methodology, it is taught, you see. 39:07 I think that's it. I apologize if it 39:09 feels 39:11 if it feels a bit harsh or a bit 39:13 intense. Hmm. 39:14 Because I have said many times, 39:18 Subhanallah, Astagfirullah. 39:22 I am in a position of deep anxiety and 39:24 I don't know who I should share this 39:25 deep anxiety with. Except every Tuesday 39:30 I convey this on Radio Silaturahim. 39:32 I don't know why, maybe because Bang 39:34 Iksanuddin Nursi's birth date is the 39:36 same as Radio Silaturahim's anniversary 39:38 on the 9th 39:41 of September. Insyaallah, yes. 39:43 Hopefully we will invite you later, 39:44 brother. 39:46 Oh, thank you, brother. Today was quite 39:49 enlightening, hopefully Allah gives 39:51 blessings to our efforts in amar makruf 39:53 nahi mungkar. 39:55 Subhanakallahumma wa bihamdika asyhadu 39:58 alla ilaha illa anta, assalamualaikum 40:03 warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. 40:05 Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi 40:07 wabarakatuh. 
