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0:08 Brail TV. 0:15 Hello. Peace be upon you, Bang 0:18 Ihsanudin. 0:20 And peace be upon you too. 0:25 Alright, how are you doing this morning 0:26 , Bang Ihsanudin? God willing, I am 0:29 doing well. 0:31 God willing, despite all the news that 0:35 makes us shake our heads and feel 0:38 unsettled, from forest fires still 0:41 raging in Kalimantan to fuel shortages 0:44 in Sulawesi. Not to mention the cases 0:48 of MBG that keep increasing. Yesterday, 0:50 the media was in an uproar when Purbaya 0:52 was fired. Who is Suahasil Nazara? Bang 0:56 Ihsanudin shared that broadcast 0:58 immediately, I received it too. Wow, 1:01 the point raised was about the helpless 1:04 rupiah, regardless of who is in charge. 1:09 Now, Bang Ihsanudin, this morning we 1:13 want to focus on your actual analysis 1:16 regarding a comment in your writing 1:19 that I underlined, which is this " 1:21 phenomenon of being trapped on the 1:24 wrong path." It seems like the 1:29 government changing people just further 1:32 reveals a messy and unclear governance. 1:36 Moreover, there is a view that Suahasil 1:40 Nazara will continue the neoliberal 1:44 concept in this country. Besides that, 1:49 we also see social media, right, Bang 1:51 Ihsanudin? How observers, including 1:54 people (who don't want to be called the 1:57 opposition, but they are in that 2:00 position, outside the government), see 2:02 it as, "Wow, if you look at these 2:05 political moves, they're not really 2:07 that different." Especially considering 2:11 that a few days earlier, Purbaya had 2:13 conducted a massive reshuffle within 2:15 the Ministry of Finance; it's said 2:17 there's a connection there. Then there 2:21 is also a connection to the reshuffle 2:23 covering the Directorate General of 2:24 Taxes and Customs. This is also a 2:27 matter of being versus the generals who 2:29 have been supporting Prabowo all this 2:32 time. Then there's also the "great sin" 2:36 regarding the budget cuts for MBG and 2:39 KDMP. Now, are these the strongest 2:43 factors, or is it that the phenomenon 2:46 is already like this, already on the 2:48 wrong path, and already messy? How 2:52 should we start our discussion this 2:54 morning, Bang Ihsanudin? Please go 2:57 ahead. 2:59 Should we start with current issues or 3:02 strategic issues? 3:04 That's the first question. 3:06 Yes. Yes. 3:07 Because they are different. 3:08 Because they are different. If we want 3:10 to respond to the public, then we start 3:12 with current issues. 3:15 Current issues, but current issues mean 3:19 the public almost doesn't build or have 3:22 a strong awareness of 3:25 the root problems. So because 3:28 I see everything circulating only 3:30 concerns current issues and does not 3:31 address the root problems. That is 3:36 proof that the public is easily 3:39 distracted by political issues full of 3:43 intrigue. 3:46 That's why we will also get into 3:48 strategic issues later. 3:50 Okay, it's fine if we start with the 3:52 current issues. In the name of Allah, 3:54 the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. 3:55 Glory be to You, we have no knowledge 3:56 except what You have taught us; indeed, 3:57 You are the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. 4:00 Oh Allah, bless our master Muhammad, 4:02 and our master Muhammad, grant us 4:04 beneficial knowledge. Purbaya is truly 4:10 facing the import mafia. 4:14 h 4:16 Facing this, because, well, I’ve 4:20 faced them myself, you see. 4:23 Yeah. 4:25 a few years ago, so as I said, I even 4:29 had to face them physically. The import 4:35 mafia. Now, this import mafia indeed 4:40 involves various circles. It’s called 4:42 a mafia for a reason; it doesn't stand 4:44 alone. 4:44 Yes. 4:46 It is connected to law enforcement 4:51 circles. It is connected to 4:53 the mass media. It is connected to 4:55 thugs. A network, yes, a network. 4:59 They have an extraordinary network, and 5:02 when it’s reformed, their coffers are 5:06 disturbed. 5:08 Hm. Regarding them saying "I will 5:11 dissolve Customs," for example. 5:15 that's impossible because it's an 5:17 institution that has existed since long 5:20 ago, from before independence, customs 5:23 and duties are standard. 5:26 But when Purbaya shouted like that, it 5:29 was excessive. 5:30 Hm. But at least it raised awareness 5:35 that Purbaya is indeed antagonizing 5:37 those people, or let's say, the import 5:40 mafia network earlier. 5:44 Now, this involves ports, law 5:46 enforcement officials, the mafia, thugs 5:49 , they are all involved. 5:52 Yeah. It's extraordinary if we can 5:57 uncover it, especially some of those 6:03 importers, for the most part, are 6:09 people who guard the free market 6:12 mechanism model where goods can be 6:16 brought in from anywhere. 6:21 So they can set prices, make a profit, 6:23 and from those profits, they share for 6:26 election costs, various expenses, and 6:29 for the welfare of certain officials in 6:32 this country. 6:37 remember back then the issue of sugar 6:39 imports, soy imports, oh, remember that 6:42 , right? 6:44 In the era of the minister 6:46 the era of Trade Minister Enggartiasto 6:48 Lukita, right? Yes. Enggar. 6:50 Ramli mentioned, the late Rizal Ramli 6:53 mentioned it, right? 6:54 It went that far. I’m just stating 6:56 this. But 6:59 that is what I know regarding state 7:01 revenue, and talking about that, the 7:04 latest is the cigarette excise issue. 7:09 Yes. Wow, it's circulating again, the 7:10 latest is cigarette excise. 7:12 It even appeared in Tempo, Tempo 7:14 magazine. 7:16 It also discussed the issue of illegal 7:18 excise, illegal cigarettes without 7:20 excise stamps. 7:23 Now, that is also part of it, and 7:25 Customs announced that they seized a 7:28 number of goods without excise stamps 7:31 worth billions. Meaning, once again, in 7:37 Customs, regarding state revenue, one 7:40 of the leakage issues is in Customs. 7:43 Then it also enters the leakage issue 7:46 in taxation. Now, both of these places 7:51 indeed must be cleaned up. In the Sri 7:57 Mulyani era, they were almost untouched 7:59 ; my articles about taxation, for 8:01 example, when I was in the House of 8:04 Representatives until I left, one of 8:06 them was about transfer pricing crimes, 8:09 right? 8:09 Yeah. And the value isn't billions, the 8:15 value is in trillions. Trillions in 8:18 value. and the event or occurrence of 8:25 transfer pricing is indeed an annual 8:28 event. 8:32 So if that can be fixed, there will 8:34 indeed be an increase in the tax ratio. 8:38 Yes. Now, Mr. Purbaya is also cleaning 8:41 that up, and of course with the 8:43 President's approval when replacing the 8:45 Director General of Taxes, remember, 8:46 the Director General was replaced. 8:49 That's the direction it's heading. The 8:51 issue yesterday was like this. So, is 8:53 it true that a number of tax people and 8:55 others were disturbed? Well, what we 8:59 call the mafia with the current 9:00 rectifications would certainly be 9:02 disturbed. 9:03 Yeah. 9:04 But this analysis is all very, very 9:07 speculative. Yeah. 9:09 What we did catch is that there were 9:11 Customs and Excise officials arrested, 9:13 and tax officials arrested. That is 9:15 true. 9:15 Yeah. 9:16 But then, why only the officials? Why 9:19 weren't the private parties or the 9:22 mafia involved? Even though in Customs 9:25 and Excise there was the Blu-ray case, 9:27 right? 9:28 In Customs and Excise, the case was the 9:30 Blu-ray case. Remember? 9:31 Yeah. 9:32 The company name was Blu-ray. And I 9:37 once presented that on a private TV 9:39 station. 9:43 In taxation, it should be the same, we 9:45 should be able to get that, and it's 9:47 not just that in taxation if we want to 9:49 dig deeper. Now, that's the current 9:53 issue that arose from Customs, Excise, 9:56 and taxes, which, yeah. 9:59 But there is also another issue 10:02 regarding budget cuts for MBG and KDMP. 10:08 Hm. If I look at the budget cuts, it 10:13 concerns how much revenue there is, and 10:17 if it's indeed cut, I don't, I don't, I 10:22 don't really have the tendency to 10:26 discuss that with sufficient data. Hm. 10:31 Because, yeah. There was an awareness 10:36 from the officials when MBG and KDMP 10:38 were protested heavily. 10:40 Yeah. Yeah. 10:41 And they wanted to reduce them. What's 10:43 actually interesting is the issue 10:45 regarding the IMF, that's interesting. 10:47 Yeah. 10:48 That was also when it was said that 10:50 Purbaya rejected the loan, and then it 10:52 was announced by...The President, that 10:57 we rejected the IMF's offer. And thus 11:00 we are free from debt to the IMF. 11:03 Yeah. Yeah. 11:05 But Purbaya was also mentioned as the 11:09 minister who compared the SBY era with 11:13 the Joko Widodo era. 11:18 That kind of sentence, right? 11:19 Yes. Not to mention the Finance 11:21 Minister also touched on the fiscal 11:23 affairs, it is said. 11:25 Ah, that's the one where they 11:26 supposedly asked for 10 trillion rupiah 11:27 . 11:27 Yes. And then it's said that they were 11:31 furious and reported it to the 11:32 President. 11:37 So many are also worried, it turns out, 11:39 because there is news like this. 11:42 Purbaya called Pertamina lazy, right? 11:47 Then, the sentence, "Don't feel like 11:49 you're the smartest of all officials," 11:52 so... 11:54 Well. Regarding who is the smartest, 11:57 Purbaya himself said, "I am the smart 12:00 one," but he didn't...He understands 12:05 the issues if he discusses things like 12:07 that. 12:08 That's the sentence. 12:09 Then the most interesting thing is 12:11 Purbaya refusing to bear the burden of 12:13 the high-speed rail. Now, that again. 12:16 Ah. 12:19 Because this is in the book "Bangsa 12:21 Terbelah"(Divided Nation). 12:22 Yes. 12:25 I wrote about the high-speed rail in " 12:27 Bangsa Terbelah" and then I presented 12:29 it on INWS. 12:31 Then we calculate the overpricing, the 12:33 excessive costs, and the corruption 12:35 involved. Well, there was a lot of fuss 12:40 about who should be responsible. 12:43 Because the state-owned enterprises 12:45 involved in the cooperation were 12:46 completely drained and suffering losses 12:48 . 12:49 Now, what's interesting is 12:51 what’s interesting is why during the 12:54 construction process, the SOEs didn't 12:56 speak up that it was overpriced. 12:59 They were silent. 13:00 That's because China, because China, 13:02 because China was the leader, the 13:04 project leader. So they didn't say 13:07 anything. Yeah. 13:08 Now, the amount was huge when it was 13:09 drawn from the state budget. 13:11 Yeah. 13:12 There are figures of 116 trillion, and 13:14 120 trillion. I think 116 is the 13:16 correct one. 13:17 It’s too expensive. 13:20 Now, there was also a fuss about 13:22 regional governments. Don’t just have 13:24 a hobby of hunting for banks. 13:27 Hunting for bank interest. That was 13:29 also quite something to watch. Now, uh 13:36 and what is also fundamental in my 13:38 opinion here, the issue here is quite a 13:41 ... 13:42 the oil and gas mafia issue, right? 13:45 Yes. 13:45 Oh, he threatened the oil and gas mafia 13:48 . The line was exciting, "I will crush 13:51 them," he said. That was the line, that 13:56 was the phrasing. Now, what’s 13:58 interesting is when his son joined in 14:00 commenting on Sri Mulyani. 14:02 Yes. 14:05 Yes. 14:08 And then, what touched Joko Widodo's 14:11 nerve was when he mentioned the Job 14:14 Creation Law, a legacy of Joko Widodo 14:17 that caused a 25 trillion state loss. 14:20 The rich get richer. Now, when it's 14:23 said that the rich get richer, that's 14:25 Ihsanuddin Nursi’s term. 14:27 Right. 14:29 Now, when I revealed that, even though 14:33 when I said the rich get richer and the 14:37 poor get poorer, it was because I saw 14:40 him using Hyman Minsky’s strategy. 14:45 Yeah. 14:45 By making a fuss about SBN, making a 14:47 fuss about Patriot Bonds, making a fuss 14:49 about Red and White bonds. Yes. Yes. 14:52 Now, if we take the current issues, the 14:54 issues circulating out there, it’s 14:57 like 14:58 the questions become numerous. 15:02 So there are, I have inventoried 11 15:05 issues related to Purbaya’s statement 15:08 . 15:10 Purbaya himself. There are 11 issues 15:13 that I noted. 15:14 Regardless of whether those 11 issues 15:17 were the target or not, I don't know. 15:19 But what’s interesting is that he was 15:21 removed from his position at the DPD. 15:23 Now, that’s 15:25 interesting. That is a 15:27 Yes. a very interesting moment. 15:30 And that happened to Agus Martowardojo 15:32 before. 15:34 Oh, 15:35 to Agus Martowardojo. Except Agus 15:37 wasn't in the forum. He was on a trip, 15:41 on an overseas trip, right? 15:44 Yeah. 15:45 Or perhaps it was the other way around. 15:47 Anyway, it was fast, but he got a 15:49 position as Governor of BI. 15:50 Yeah. Yeah. 15:51 If Agus, he was allocated to be the 15:53 Governor of BI. In this case, the 15:54 Governor of BI position was already 15:55 filled. 15:55 Yes. 15:56 So it's impossible to join 15:58 impossible, but the method of dismissal 16:01 was exactly the same, they weren't in 16:05 the country at the time. 16:07 I see. 16:09 Agus was like that. Purbaya was also 16:10 like, now, 16:11 why, why was it like that? I think this 16:16 is a poor governance model. 16:22 What is actually happening, Bang 16:23 Hanudin? 16:25 What is actually happening is, 16:29 if we look at it, there are major 16:35 strategic challenges. 16:40 Hm. The major challenge is when fuel 16:47 world oil prices rise, as analyzed at 16:51 INS, 16:51 yes 16:52 reaching 110 dollars per barrel. 16:55 Yeah. 16:57 The state budget subsidies break. 17:03 The subsidies explode, rising by 17:05 trillions. 17:06 Hm. 17:08 That is the first point. Next is the 17:12 external situation; these strategic 17:14 issues I mentioned burden the state 17:17 budget further with debt problems. So 17:24 debt is estimated to rise from 10,293 17:29 trillion to around 10,800 trillion. Hm. 17:36 If this continues, the impact, even 17:38 though they keep saying the debt-to-GDP 17:41 ratio remains safe because it moves 17:44 between 38 and 40%—that is calculated 17:47 against GDP. But if you look at it— 17:50 and here is the keyword— 17:52 if you look at the principal and 17:54 interest installments against state 17:57 revenue, it is truly squeezing it 17:59 completely. Squeezing the state budget 18:01 completely. Now, that pressure is 18:05 extraordinary. So the issues of debt, 18:09 energy, interest rates, and the 18:12 pressure of paying off a negative 18:15 current account balance continuously. 18:21 Because we import technology and we 18:23 import raw materials, auxiliary 18:25 materials, and at the same time our 18:27 monetary policy competes. 18:30 Yeah. Yeah. with the Fed rate. Uh this 18:37 external situation means that the 18:40 pressure on debt and the pressure on 18:44 imports result in inflation, impacting 18:48 price increases, and 18:53 those price increases combined with 18:55 interest rate hikes logically result in 18:58 approved credit not being disbursed, 19:01 staying at 2,500. 8 trillion. 19:05 Hm. 19:06 It was previously 257 trillion, right? 19:09 2,576 trillion. 19:11 It only dropped by a little. It only 19:15 dropped by a little. Whereas in fact 19:21 the business world market needs 19:23 liquidity. 19:24 Hm. 19:25 Now, the impact is that banks are 19:27 playing with SBN or SRBI. Yeah. 19:30 So, liquidity in the business market is 19:33 getting drier, right? The banks are 19:36 enjoying playing with securities. At 19:38 the same time, there is interest rate 19:40 competition. Well then 19:42 the business sector stalls. It gets 19:45 harder for the little guy, they get 19:47 even poorer, that's what it leads to. 19:49 And that is compounded by the problem 19:51 of the middle class falling. 19:53 Hm. 19:54 9.48, it gets even harder. It adds to 19:57 the problems, right? The BPS announced 20:00 that the poverty rate is 8.07%, but 20:02 they don't want to calculate the level 20:04 of vulnerability. Added to that is the 20:06 problem of non-cast decile figures. Wow 20:08 , it makes people even less confident. 20:09 So 20:10 the economic issues are perhaps getting 20:13 complicated, 20:14 more and more unnecessary things. 20:17 Now, this picture is further 20:20 exacerbated by the statements of 20:22 officials, statements 20:26 that are not sympathetic. Oh, that is 20:29 where the weakness lies. 20:32 Hm. 20:33 As I said, finance people should have 20:37 limited speech. 20:39 Don't talk too much, okay? 20:42 Correct. Finance people shouldn't talk 20:45 too much or offer too many comments. 20:48 Their speech must be limited. 20:50 Just keep it reasonably proportionate. 20:55 Do you know who Kevin Warsh was 20:57 compared to when he became the chairman 20:59 of the Federal Reserve? 21:01 Hm. 21:02 He was compared to Alan Greenspan. Why 21:04 was Alan compared like that? 21:07 Because Kevin Warsh explicitly stated 21:11 we won't talk much, but we will work 21:14 more. 21:17 Ah, why was he compared to Greenspan? 21:19 Because Greenspan talked a lot, but his 21:21 words were often not understood by the 21:22 public. Because he didn't want to give 21:27 specific signals regarding his Federal 21:29 Reserve policies. 21:30 Ah, that’s the direction. Now, 21:32 that’s in banking. 21:34 Even though it has an impact, right, 21:36 Brother Isanudin? Those comments 21:38 influence market sentiment, right? 21:41 Correct. Correct. Indeed, it points 21:43 toward market sentiment. So 21:44 likewise, Purbaya's statement also 21:46 points toward market sentiment. That is 21:49 what I wanted to say. So, for example, 21:52 if we look at the Secretary of the 21:53 Treasury there, Steven Mnuchin, he 21:55 explicitly stated that we would impose 21:57 much harsher economic sanctions than 21:59 the world has ever seen against Iran. 22:02 Yes. 22:03 The market impact was extraordinary. 22:06 Hm. 22:06 The market impact was extraordinary. A 22:09 Secretary of the Treasury, right, as 22:11 as 22:14 a core line, the inner circle of a 22:17 cabinet, of a regime. 22:21 Stating things like that and 22:24 aligned with Donald Trump's statements. 22:28 That really has an influence. Just like 22:30 Purbaya, saying "I'm an IMF expert," 22:32 you shouldn't say things like that. 22:34 You shouldn't. Hm. 22:37 So it is inappropriate to talk like 22:39 that. Now, 22:42 now regarding Suahasil, here we enter 22:43 the topic of Suahasil. Hm. 22:45 Suahasil is not typically a person who 22:47 talks a lot, coincidentally. 22:48 Hm. 22:50 He will speak in a limited way, 22:52 speaking as things are, and like most 22:56 neoliberals. He is a neoliberal. 22:59 Most neoliberals. 23:00 Yes. Yes. Yes. He will adopt that 23:05 tradition. Hm. 23:08 The tradition of speaking sparingly. 23:11 Work is what matters because they are 23:13 indeed 23:14 workers of the neoliberal system. 23:17 Repeat, he is a worker of the 23:18 neoliberal system. 23:19 Hm. 23:21 So don't expect him to make any great 23:24 breakthroughs to change the neoliberal 23:26 system. That won't happen. 23:29 Yes. Yes. 23:30 So, my sentence, let me try to ask how 23:34 far Suahasil Nazara has powerful 23:37 strategies to overcome the current 23:41 situation which 23:44 the IMF itself calls full of 23:46 uncertainty. 23:49 That was my sentence, that's how it was 23:51 titled in the article. Now, if we move 23:56 on to strategic issues, this is also 23:59 about how to deal with 24:02 deindustrialization, 24:06 how we sort out industrialization 24:08 because it requires fiscal and monetary 24:10 costs. 24:12 Which ones are sunset, which ones are 24:14 sunrise, and which are transforming on 24:15 one side, right? Hm. 24:17 On the other side, it affects taxes 24:19 because, for instance, what's going on 24:21 in the downstream industry? Hm. 24:24 But at the same time, this issue also 24:27 faces the problem of how, actually, uh 24:33 the taxation that is being brought up 24:36 and issued for uh industrialization, 24:39 because this triggers whether we foster 24:42 reindustrialization or we continue 24:45 deindustrialization or stagnate 24:49 so that we have no power at all. Now, 24:52 this also arises from fiscal policy, 24:54 its policies. 24:56 Now, further policies, as I see it. 25:01 Well, it, it, it, yeah, yeah, it's just 25:05 normal, like there won't be anything 25:09 yeah, just normal, just normal if 25:11 neoliberalism works like how, secure 25:12 investor interests, that's the keyword, 25:14 like Sri Mulyani 25:17 like Sri Mulyani, while she has been 25:19 finance minister, one of her main tasks 25:22 is uh uh to secure external interests, 25:24 in this case, the interests of foreign 25:26 investors, right 25:29 uh so that they remain protected. 25:32 Yeah. 25:33 Now, that sentence was once brought up 25:35 by Budo with the phrase we must 25:36 maintain creditor confidence. That's 25:39 the phrase, they say. 25:41 Because Bang Isanudin has already 25:42 mentioned the names of names of 25:44 previous economic figures. So, do 25:47 market players actually prefer a 25:49 Finance Minister who is considered 25:51 friendly to capitalist leadership? 25:56 Yes. Uh uh 25:59 the cool term is investor friendly. 26:01 Investor friendly. 26:05 The cool term is investor. The news 26:07 term is investor friendly. The cool 26:10 term is investor friendly. 26:12 And indeed, because Indonesia has been 26:14 trapped, ensnared in that debt 26:17 yeah, trapped in such a way in debt. 26:19 trapped in the exchange rate system 26:21 uh trapped in the payment system. Even 26:24 though the payment system can already 26:25 cause a crisis, right, 26:28 but in essence, uh that trap they do 26:30 not want to release, of course, and of 26:32 course, there must be someone running 26:35 that trap, that steep, misguided path, 26:37 right. 26:38 Hm. 26:39 If I use my language, steep on that 26:40 misguided path, right. 26:42 H. 26:42 Now, if we ask AI, AI will say, "Oh, 26:45 the proof is Singapore is fine. 26:50 Singapore has a large foreign debt. 26:52 Make no mistake. 26:55 Of course, it is fine. Just like the 26:58 fall of the Yen recently. Why did 27:01 America rush to help it? That is 27:03 because the issue of regional stability 27:06 is not just about political economy but 27:08 also relates to how 27:10 Japan acts as an alliance of Washington 27:12 . 27:14 Now, where is Indonesia in that 27:16 situation. construction channel for 27:18 instance, the position of safeguarding 27:21 exchange rate interests, right? The 27:25 thesis is that the exchange rate is 27:27 related to uh, no, the formula is uh 27:30 the exchange rate is related to 27:32 interest rates and inflation. Now, 27:36 meanwhile, the exchange rate determines 27:38 the price of gold, energy prices, and 27:40 other strategic commodity prices. Now, 27:43 the question is, who determines the 27:45 interest rates? The Fed, right. Uh then 27:50 who determines uh strategic prices? Yes 27:53 , the market masters. Now, if the 27:55 market master, for instance, for oil is 27:57 Nymex, it means the determiner is 27:59 America. If the determiner is uh other 28:02 commodities, say in gold, it's America, 28:05 so it's America again, for instance. 28:08 Ha. So, what I mean to say is, if you 28:12 study international trade, 28:14 international finance, the keyword is 28:16 indeed in 28:19 it's in New York, it's in Washington. 28:22 Only then does the European Union 28:24 follow suit. Now, with a construction 28:27 like that, like it or not, Indonesia is 28:29 —not like it or not, the system in 28:31 Indonesia is firmly built as a follower 28:33 . 28:35 built as a follower. Hm. 28:40 Now, if we want to change it, we have 28:42 to change, not just the regulations, 28:44 not just the policies. 28:47 Yeah. Yeah. 28:48 But also change the constitution 28:49 because they are the ones who set the 28:50 constitution. 28:52 Yeah, 28:52 that's it. That is why I say that 28:55 whoever the minister is, as long as 28:58 they do not change the basic rules, the 29:01 basic norms, change the regulations and 29:03 policies, the rupiah will still weaken. 29:07 Oh, so that proves it, then, Bang 29:09 Ihsanudin. It proves that the market 29:12 likes or rejects someone, right? 29:16 Eh, yes. That's one of the things, 29:18 certainly. 29:23 That's how you see it. 29:26 Yeah. No. Because they have already 29:27 stated it themselves. 29:28 Yes, yes, yes, yes. It was stated by 29:31 them in a meeting of the Financial 29:33 System Stability Committee, the 29:35 recording of which was played at the 29:37 Constitutional Court. 29:40 And only one name was mentioned, 29:41 Ihsanudin Nursi. But Bang Ihsanudin, I 29:44 also read a YouTube comment, you know, 29:46 Bang Ihsanudin, if it touches the 29:47 global market or foreign capital flows, 29:49 Bang Ihsanudin will definitely be 29:51 targeted, they said. Yeah. Because some 29:59 people like to be stooges for that. 30:02 Yeah. 30:03 I don't want that; even the concept I 30:06 offered to several power networks, 30:10 I mentioned how to break free from the 30:12 network of the lost path. 30:16 I have already conveyed the mindset of 30:19 how to break free, 30:21 how to restructure assets in relation 30:24 to financial restructuring, how to 30:26 restructure resources. 30:29 So, I have done that. Now, issues like 30:32 this, strategic issues and current 30:35 issues, 30:37 they require actors who can carry them 30:40 out. 30:41 Now, those actors are called the 30:43 neoliberal group. 30:44 Yes. 30:46 Who were once proud to state, don't 30:49 talk about morals in economics. 30:53 Never talk about ethics in an economy 30:56 that is called a free market. Hm. 30:59 Now, that was once stated by someone 31:01 often quoted by leading media in 31:04 Indonesia, 31:06 someone like Chatib Basri, for example. 31:11 Well, no, that's my experience. 31:13 Yes. 31:14 My experience with them. 31:19 For example, when we talk about what 31:22 privatization is. They push for all-out 31:26 privatization, right? 31:28 Neoliberals only have three jobs. 31:31 Yeah. 31:32 Privatizing, liberalizing, building 31:36 financial discipline, budget discipline 31:39 . They only have three jobs if you want 31:43 to simplify it. Meanwhile, according to 31:47 several economists, for example, 31:50 for instance that is a takeover; if you 31:56 use Norina Hertz or Stiglitz, it is 31:59 essentially legal robbery. 32:03 h 32:08 So, if we want to gain such an 32:10 understanding, we can see how American 32:12 critical theorists view what are 32:14 referred to as policies of 32:17 privatization, liberalization, and 32:19 fiscal discipline. Now, the 32:20 manifestation of fiscal discipline is, 32:22 well, 32:24 the restriction of the budget for 32:26 capital expenditure, as I mentioned in 32:29 my article. So, this means if we want 32:34 to look at it this way, when we shout 32:37 about Article 33, the 1945 Constitution 32:40 , clauses 1, 2, and 3, are neoliberal 32:43 financial policies consistent with that 32:46 ? 32:48 No. No. Hm. That is proof that to 32:59 uphold a constitutional economy, you 33:01 cannot understand it through just one 33:04 article. One, it 33:07 is a series of several articles 33:09 contained within the body of the 33:11 original 1945 Constitution. One. The 33:14 second, it relates to an X factor, in 33:18 this case, Article 29 33:21 so to speak. Even in this life, there 33:23 is divine intervention from God. There 33:27 is the term qada and qadar, right? 33:29 Yes. 33:30 Meaning there are things already 33:31 decreed, and there are things decreed 33:33 by God after we act; God's qada and 33:35 qadar. Yes. 33:37 So, our economy is the same. 33:39 H 33:39 m, God permits things like this to 33:42 happen, not as an expression of His 33:46 approval or pleasure. No. But to let us 33:49 know," Hey, you are wrong. "Heh. 33:51 But we never want to realize that this 33:53 is wrong. That is what I mean. 33:57 Furthermore, it also relates to the 33:59 mandate of the Preamble to the 1945 34:02 Constitution, which I summarize as the 34:04 economy being obligated to free society 34:07 from the 5 Ks. This is what I have 34:11 stated many times at Rasil. The people 34:16 and nation of Indonesia must be free 34:20 from oppression, ignorance, poverty, 34:23 inequality, and humiliation. For more 34:28 details, just check YouTube. 34:32 Meaning, meaning 34:37 if the exchange rate has been 34:39 continuously weakening since '04, what 34:41 is actually happening is indeed a 34:44 process of impoverishment. 34:47 H 34:50 m, I cited the data, look, this is the 34:53 data I have presented from '04 until 34:55 today. The exchange rate has been 35:00 continuously weakening. Neither 35:03 Suahasil nor Destry Damayanti will show 35:06 their strength in curbing the 35:08 depreciation or the weakening of the 35:10 rupiah. 35:12 Hm. Heh. 35:14 Ah, one of the indicators is when the 35:17 oil price reaches 110 dollars per 35:20 barrel, or when the state budget is 35:23 squeezed, forcing you to turn to 35:26 investors again to ask for debt. Then, 35:31 when the Federal Reserve raises 35:32 interest rates, you have to raise your 35:34 interest rates too. That's how it is. 35:39 When Morgan Stanley Capital Investment 35:42 talks about capital market transparency 35:44 , who is MSCI that you follow them? 35:48 They aren't a country, you know. Why do 35:51 you follow them, why do you follow 35:53 their standards, why do you follow 35:55 their wishes, why do you follow the 35:57 dictates of capital in the capital 35:58 market? That is what influences the 36:01 exchange rate. Now, that is not an 36:04 independent variable, not a standalone 36:07 factor. That is what I mean by how to 36:10 dictate Indonesia through five doors, 36:12 looking at it that way. Well, on the 36:16 result, because he is part of the 36:18 financial system stability, right, as 36:21 the leader. The leader, Din, together 36:28 with the Governor of Bank Indonesia, 36:31 along with the OJK and LPS, are truly 36:34 the state institutions that run the 36:37 dictated system of Indonesia's economy. 36:42 Let me repeat the sentence. 36:44 Repeat the sentence. Four institutions 36:47 within the financial system stability 36:49 committee, right. They are truly the 36:53 institutions that run the dictated 36:55 system of the Indonesian economy. So 36:58 what must be fixed, as ordered by 37:00 Article 33 Paragraph 1, the national 37:03 economy is structured. Now, we never 37:07 have that economy. What is the 37:09 structure of our economy? 37:11 Yes. Meanwhile, he is a figure who has 37:14 been in that environment for a long 37:17 time, since the Jokowi era, right. 37:21 Yes, for a long time. Even before that, 37:23 he was already there, he indeed built 37:25 his career there, right. 37:26 Meaning he was told to guard it. 37:29 Yes, he guards compliance to investors, 37:32 right, guarding it. 37:33 Guarding compliance to the system, 37:35 that's the simple way to put it. 37:38 Bang, since you touched on the law, the 37:41 question is from the perspective of 37:44 political economy, what does the public 37:46 get? Don't let the government be too 37:50 busy maintaining investor confidence 37:53 while forgetting to maintain the 37:55 people's purchasing power. Don't let 37:58 the market be made comfortable. While 38:00 the people have to bear taxes, the cost 38:02 of living, and the economic burden gets 38:04 heavier. How about it, Bang Isudin? 38:07 This seems to be the last question. 38:09 Yeah. 38:09 Okay. Okay. The last question was about 38:12 investor confidence, right. As for me, 38:16 since Sri Mulyani took pride in the 38:19 measure of how the business environment 38:22 in Indonesia is, 38:25 the business climate, right. 38:28 There used to be a measure of how far a 38:30 country is friendly to business, 38:32 indicators and indices were built, 38:35 right. 38:36 Yeah. 38:36 I turn it around, why aren't you 38:38 friendly to the people? 38:40 Like that. 38:41 Yeah. For example, just like Angga 38:43 mentioned earlier. 38:45 Investor confidence. Why don't you 38:47 improve the people's confidence? Why do 38:49 you improve the confidence of investors 38:52 ? It proves that. 38:54 When you maintain investor confidence, 38:57 you are actually maintaining the 39:00 confidence of business oligarchs. 39:04 Like that. Now, meanwhile, using. 39:08 Using Hyman Minsky, when you maintain 39:11 investor confidence or maintain the 39:15 confidence of business oligarchs, the 39:18 result is that the rich get richer and 39:21 the poor get poorer. 39:23 Yes. 39:24 Like that. Because that is what you are 39:25 guarding. You are not guarding the 39:27 people's confidence. Whereas the people 39:29 are the source of your confidence, the 39:31 people are the source of your power. 39:33 Yeah. 39:34 The people are the owners of popular 39:35 sovereignty. Now, it turns out when we 39:37 take the people as the source of 39:40 sovereignty, the system flips it. 39:42 Yeah. 39:43 That sovereignty is fully handed over 39:45 to political parties. Political parties 39:47 that are co-opted, meaning the system 39:48 is wrong. Meaning the political system 39:50 is wrong, the economic system is wrong. 39:52 Yeah. Now, this is what is not widely 39:57 realized by the public, so the public 39:59 is more 40:00 focusing more on intriguing issues 40:03 rather than strategic ones 40:05 yeah. It's because of the front stage. 40:08 Yes, that's right. People find the 40:11 front stage more attractive than how 40:14 the director sets the stage. Well, that 40:19 is what social media is capable of: 40:21 diverting attention. 40:24 Hm, 40:25 like that. Now, when our attention is 40:27 successfully diverted, they succeed in 40:30 maintaining power. That's the point. 40:32 Well, those in power are indeed clever, 40:35 right? The rulers are clever. 40:41 Actually, for Rasil's anniversary, what 40:44 number is it? 15th 40:46 17. 17th. 17th 40:49 in the anniversary, almost half of it 40:51 has been with Ihsanuddin Nursi. 40:53 Right, right, more than half has been 40:56 with me, right? 40:57 Yes. Over 10 years. 41:00 Now, looking at it from my position, I 41:02 am actually inviting the public—Rasil 41:05 listeners and Rasil TV viewers—not to 41:07 be trapped by these intriguing issues. 41:10 Yes. Yes. 41:11 Those political intrigues are being 41:13 developed. Issues like that are being 41:14 cultivated, right? He. 41:16 Which is indeed part of the power 41:18 struggle, 41:20 part of the power game. 41:22 Now, when we say the power game is 41:24 fighting against one another, it means 41:27 they are not in a position driven by 41:29 noble desires, right. That is where the 41:33 failure lies again. Oh, so there are 41:36 two things wrong here: the system and 41:38 the actors. That's how I see it. He. 41:42 Now, from there, when we say the trust 41:45 in the instructor is maintained but the 41:48 people are getting poorer, the fault is 41:51 as I said before. Let us look at the 41:55 Constitution, then the laws, then the 41:57 policies, and then the executors, the 42:00 actors, what they are like. Well, 42:03 it turns out the actors are almost 42:08 entirely part of the business 42:13 oligarchy, 42:16 part of the financial power, the 42:18 business power. That is where business 42:22 oligarchy grows with political 42:24 oligarchy, so even though the people 42:26 are the source of sovereignty, 42:28 even though they are the owners of 42:31 sovereignty, and then the state budget 42:34 depends on taxes for 80-something 42:37 percent, right. 42:39 It's useless as well. So the money is 42:41 taken, the power is taken, and the 42:43 money is handed over 42:44 like that. In the name of the law, 42:46 sovereignty is surrendered in the name 42:48 of the constitution and the law. And 42:50 the people remain poor. Oh, is that 42:52 what you call leaders fulfilling their 42:54 mandate or not? Are those political 42:57 elites fulfilling their mandate or not? 42:59 Look, I am just asking. I 43:01 I am just asking. Please answer it. 43:05 I am just asking those two questions. 43:06 You have already received the people's 43:08 sovereignty, but at the same time, you 43:10 take their money too. 43:11 And the people become poor. At the same 43:13 time, you also let their wealth be 43:15 handed over to a group of people. So 43:17 there are three things, right. 43:18 Yes. Yes. Yes. the result is as it is 43:20 now. Now, can a Rasil listener see 43:23 political-economic issues like this? 43:26 Yeah, when I remember my talks with my 43:29 friends at FPUI, 43:31 heh 43:32 friends who became high-ranking 43:33 officials there, yes. We did study 43:37 macro, brother. Just like you also 43:39 studied macro. But you complement macro 43:43 with politics. We don't do that. 43:48 Yeah. That's how they defend themselves 43:51 . 43:52 Yes, in the future we will see, right 43:53 Brother Isnudin? 43:56 Not just see, I mean, we aren't just 43:59 going to look, we are going to witness. 44:04 That 44:05 this country will remain on the 44:08 neoliberal path. 44:09 Oh my. Uh and that means you remain in 44:15 a position like my YouTube 44:19 in a position of an ultra-modern 44:21 self-serving system where many people 44:24 become slaves but don't feel like 44:26 slaves, you know. Now, 44:29 where the society is sucked dry of its 44:32 sovereignty and income, but they don't 44:35 feel a thing while their resources are 44:38 taken, and then they only realize it 44:40 when forest fires like that happen. 44:44 Right, right. 44:45 So there are many problems here. Now, I 44:49 think we will witness that because we 44:52 will also see a contradiction between 44:55 the desire to uphold Article 33 and the 44:58 actors who have no commitment to the 45:01 dignity of this nation, who abolish the 45:04 5 Ks I mentioned earlier. 45:07 Subhanakallahumma wabihamdika ashadu 45:09 alla ila anta astaghfiruka. 45:12 Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi 45:14 wabarakatuh. 45:14 Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi 45:16 wabarakatuh. that 
