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Name: Ustaz Ikhwan Abidin Basri II Kripto, Sudah Difatwakan Haram Kenapa Masih Diperjualbelikan?
Description: Video Ustaz Ikhwan Abidin Basri II Kripto, Sudah Difatwakan Haram Kenapa Masih Diperjualbelikan? dari Radio Silaturahim.

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In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious
, the Most Merciful. May the peace,
mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon
you. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the
Worlds. May peace and blessings be upon
our master Muhammad, and upon his
family and all his companions. O Lord,
increase me in knowledge. O Allah,
benefit me with what You have taught me
, teach me what will benefit me, and
grant me knowledge that will be useful
to me. Broadcasting from Jalan Masjid
Silaturahim number 36, Kalimanggis,
Jatisampurna, Bekasi, Radio Silaturahim
and Rasil Visual, for the one Islam.
Brothers and sisters, may you be
blessed by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. I
hope you are all in good health on this
morning heading toward noon. It is a
pleasure for Angga Aminudin,
accompanied by Fajar and also Anis, to
be able to greet you once again
wherever you are. We are here for our
routine program every Tuesday morning,
the Islamic Economic Study with our
speaker from the National Sharia
Council, Ustaz Ikhwan Basri, who, thank
God, has arrived in the studio to share
his knowledge with us all. May the
peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be
upon you, Ustaz.
And may the peace, mercy, and blessings
of Allah be upon you too.
Are you doing well, Ustaz?
Praise be to Allah, I am in good health
.
That's good to hear. Even though the
weather is quite chilly like this,
Ustaz. Yes,
it has been raining since yesterday,
hasn't it?
It keeps on raining. Praise be to Allah
, your journey from Cileungsi to
Jatisampurna went smoothly, right Ustaz
?
Praise be to Allah.
After being absent last week, Ustaz.
Praise be to Allah, today we have
entered the third day of the month of
Jumadil Awal 1443 Hijriah. We are able
to be live again, right Ustaz? We are
broadcasting live. In our last live
broadcast, a couple of weeks ago, we
discussed crypto, and on this occasion,
brothers and sisters, we will continue
that theme with a much broader scope.
Because when looking at recent times,
the fatwa from the MUI is truly taken
seriously by the majority of Muslims.
So, regarding the fatwa on crypto, many
ended up following it and abandoned it.
However, there are also those who still
persist. We will expand further, not
only highlighting how crypto and the
fatwa of prohibition from the MUI work,
but we will also look at crypto and its
counterparts, right Ustaz?
Yes. What kind of significant effect do
these other counterparts actually have
on the country's financial system?
Because, if I am not mistaken, in early
2021, when crypto was rampant, Bank
Indonesia released—if I may quote
from Kontan.co.id—five dangers to the
national financial system if
cryptocurrency continues to exist among
the public. There are five dangers, and
most of them significantly affect the
payment system as well as the financial
system. So, that is my opening, and
later we will have a broader
explanation with the Ustaz. Let's
listen, brothers and sisters; we invite
the Ustaz.
Thank you, Mas Angga. May the peace,
mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon
you. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the
Worlds. May peace and blessings be upon
the noblest of prophets and messengers.
Our master, our prophet, and our
messenger, Muhammad, and upon his
family and all his companions. To
proceed. Viewers of Rasil TV and
listeners of Radio Silaturahim who are
blessed by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.
As what you might call it? As mentioned
in the introduction by Mas Angga, there
have been many questions and
discussions over the past few weeks,
both online and in-person, regarding
the MUI fatwa on the prohibition of
cryptocurrency, and the responses from
Muslims in Indonesia and even abroad.
It turns out that what we, or the MUI,
issued as a fatwa is not only read by
Indonesians. Many from abroad are
paying close attention, because based
on their comments, they have long been
waiting for this kind of clarification,
and thankfully, it has now been
provided. Therefore, a portion of the
issue has been resolved. However, the
discussions have since ex-expanded to
things that existed long ago but play a
role in monetary and financial systems,
with dangers similar to those of crypto
. This has become a broad discussion,
covering issues like the legality of
gambling in some countries, as well as
businesses or non-delivery transactions
, such as futures exchanges and others.
In principle, these actually influence
the monetary stability of certain
countries. Yes. That is why they see
that—what should I call it? One of
the distinct characteristics of 20th
and 21 st-century finance is the
imbalance or instability in the value
of any currency. If you look at the
cross-section of data from the 1950s to
the present, we can see that any
currency will experience instability
against the rupiah, gold, or other
currencies. This leads many to wonder
when we will ever reach a period in the
economy where currency is stable, even
if just for a year, two, or three. Yet,
they have not experienced that for many
years now. That is why many are
discussing the merits of returning to
the dinar or dirham, or the concept of
bimetallism, because they feel it is a
way to stabilize exchange rates, and it
has many followers now, not only in
Indonesia but also in Malaysia. There
are also followers in Thailand,
Pakistan, the Middle East, and even
many in Europe. They are the ones who,
what should I call it? Hoping for an
economy where currency truly functions
as a standard of value, a standard for
the goods and services provided to
humans, and is stable, because we feel
there is a sense of injustice now due
to the lack of stability in any
currency, including the dollar, the
Japanese yen, or the Euro. So, this
volatility in the value of certain
currencies has an impact on the welfare
of specific groups. Especially when
added to uncontrolled inflation that
erodes currency value, making the
currency itself a poor tool to serve as
a standard for the value of goods or
services. Well, this discussion has
developed quite nicely. And then, some
Muslims accepted the fatwa calmly and
willingly, because this is what was
expected. But what I see is that these
are groups who, in fact, do not play,
do not trade in Bitcoin. H
They indeed see it as something new and
tend not to say it is economically
sound, but generally, they are not the
group that participates in it. Now,
those who defend and tend to reject the
MUI fatwa are those who have already
benefited from Bitcoin transactions,
the transactions they have been doing
all this time, so they persist in
holding onto what they think,
implicitly or explicitly rejecting the
Indonesian Ulema Council's fatwa. So,
it is generally the players who tend
not to accept it.
As for the majority of Muslims who do
not really understand IT in the context
of cryptocurrency, they see it as a
good thing and simply accept it. They
obey this fatwa. That is generally the
case. Now, in this discussion, we also
recount why transactions that actually
tend to destabilize currency are still
permitted and remain legal. This is not
the case for Bitcoin and its peers.
Yes. There are many transactions that
actually
tend to fail to maintain currency
stability. For example, what do you
call it? Non-delivery transactions or,
for instance, in futures exchanges,
commodity exchanges. Yes.
These prices are actually just quoted
prices that don't occur in the real
world, but they are used as references,
so transactions use such references.
Then, massive transactions occur, and
they drain monetary resources.
Ultimately, it is clear that an
imbalance between demand and supply
occurs in the currency, so the currency
can rise or fall very quickly. This
happens often, for instance, due to
policies or news about the discontinued
use of coal as a fuel source. Well,
that has already impacted the currency.
Even though the decision itself didn't
actually take effect that day,
the response happened that very day.
That day, it immediately affected the
entire chain of these transactions.
Yes.
Including oil, especially fuel, right.
It is very sensitive, you know.
Like that. Now, but for things like oil
or coal, they have a physical form,
right.
Yes.
But the problem arises when they are
traded via, what do you call it?
Non-delivery. Now, that is a highly
speculative transaction.
Because transactions like this are
based solely on documents. For example,
Party A has 100,000 tons of coal, this
grade, that grade, right. Where is the
allocation? There is a certificate for
it.
Yes. But in trading, they won't check
if the coal is really in South
Kalimantan as stated in the certificate
, they won't check it. Yeah.
The important thing is that the
document exists. Now, that document is
what is traded on the exchange, and it
happens repeatedly. That transaction
could be infinite, how many times
it’s traded, and a transaction is
money. Every transaction is money, so a
bubble occurs there. What is being
traded on this exchange has, in fact,
nothing to do with the real sector that
serves as the underlying basis for the
transaction. For example, a transaction
for 1,000 tons, let's say. But it can
be traded repeatedly, infinitely,
almost infinitely, so what happens in
this monetary sector is much higher in
value than what is happening in the
real sector, and that becomes an
economic bubble, and an economic bubble
will eventually burst, and we often see
that happen. Yes. There are many
victims of economic bubbles, including
us in Indonesia in the late 20th
century, 1998-99, which was our most
difficult time, the time when economic
bubbles burst in Japan, South Korea,
Taiwan, and Hong Kong. Then it hit us.
Now, something like this is actually
dangerous. These activities are
dangerous and threaten the economy in
general, including Bitcoin, which has
already been stated by Bank Indonesia
as the regulator, the central bank,
regarding the dangers of using Bitcoin
or crypto in the economy. Yes, that is
why many countries have banned it now;
China, for instance, has cracked down
hard on it. India is also included.
Even America, I don't know, because
it's not exactly permitted in America.
In fact, there are some countries in
the Americas that have made Bitcoin a
currency.
If I'm not mistaken, Bolivia or
somewhere, I forget the name. That
country. So, in terms of common sense
based on the monetary logic we are
currently studying, what has been
stated by BI as the regulator and other
economic observers that has gone viral
in the media, both online and in
official outlets, is true. It is
correct, it is dangerous.
Extremely dangerous. The most
significant danger, for instance, is
the difficulty in detecting money
laundering.
So, activities that are illicit in the
economy but generate Bitcoin are later
exchanged and introduced into the
official sector in very large amounts.
What do you call that? It becomes money
laundering. Then, for example, there is
no underlying asset; nobody truly calls
it an asset. Even though people claim
it is an asset that can be traded, that
is not a sufficient argument to
classify it as a real asset.
Yet it can be traded for real money.
Without any guarantees. If we have
something, there must be concrete
collateral or guarantees. Whether it's
coal, nickel, or something else as a
guarantee. This has nothing. Yes.
But we transact with other parties, and
they must receive something that is
truly rupiah or dollars.
And this officially becomes wealth.
But the party holding Bitcoin and its
siblings has no such backup.
So, it is actually unbalanced, unfair;
in Islamic terms, in Sharia or muamalah
, we call it zulm. Zulm, yes. Yes.
Because it involves taking others '
rights improperly. Yes, we might give
others dollars or rupiah, but in return
, we get something whose price is
highly unpredictable, with fluctuations
that can drop by 100 million in a
single day. That is extraordinary.
MasyaAllah. Therefore, if things like
this enter our system, our financial
system, it becomes dangerous. Or it
will surely cause harm, which in fiqh
is called mafsadah. We must avoid that
mafsadah. That is why, in the
principles of fiqh, it states: *darul
mafasid muqaddam ala jalbil masalih*.
Yes, rejecting harm, rejecting things
that are dangerous to us all, must take
precedence over seeking benefits. Yes,
because the benefits are very small.
That is why the Quran itself has
already provided guidance on that.
Auzubillahiminasyaitanirrajim. In Surah
Al-Baqarah, Allah says, "They ask you
about intoxicants and gambling. Say,'
In them is great sin and [yet, some]
benefit for people. But their sin is
greater than their benefit. '" They ask
you, Muhammad sallallahu alaihi
wasallam, about khamr and maisir. About
intoxicants and gambling. Yes, maisir
is gambling. Yes, some scholars,
including Imam Qurtubi, said that
Maisir was the name of a famous type of
gambling during the Jahiliyyah era. In
the New Order era, there was something
called Porkas, do you still remember it
? Pork, there was SDSB, you know,
things like that. Now, the names for
gambling are all kinds of things.
Online gambling, wow, I don't even know
the names anymore. But the most
prominent and dominant name for a
well-known type of gambling in the
Jahiliyyah era is Maisir.
Yes. And regarding Maisir, the Qur'an
often says, "Qul fihi-ma ithmun kabir."
Say, in both of these things. In both
of these things, meaning in khamr (
intoxicants) and gambling, there is a
great sin.
Yes. "Wa manaafi'u lin-nas." Wa-nas
means there are many benefits for
people. The Qur'an says gambling and
khamr have their benefits. Ibn Kathir,
in his tafsir, says that the benefits
here are, for example, for the sellers,
the labor used to produce it, including
the farmers, like grape farmers, if it
is from grapes, they get, uh, what you
call it, hmm, when harvesting, they are
paid high prices, which brings them
prosperity. Likewise, the, what you
call it, the production chain, they get
benefits from the trade, including
those who work there. The factory
employs people, and eventually, the
people working there earn an income and
can spend their wealth for their own
needs, and so on. There are so many of
these. The Qur'an says that the
benefits are numerous, in the plural
form, there are many benefits. But the
sin that occurs as a result of us doing
it is far greater than the benefits. So
this, uh, provides us with guidance, it
is not stated that the item is negative
, purely negative, or completely
negative with no benefit at all. No.
But it is acknowledged that there are
things like that as well. Yes, it is
not completely negative, or what is
termed as "darrun mahd" in Fiqh,
meaning 100%dangerous with absolutely
no benefit. It is not said to be like
that, it does have benefits. But if you
compare and calculate it in general,
the benefits compared to the harm
caused, the harm is greater, and this
we must avoid. So, such a principle
arises. The principle that rejecting
harm is prioritized over drawing
benefits. Now, this is a danger to the
wider community. If the regulator has
already said so, Bank Indonesia has
already said so, it is truly visible
how dangerous it is for the economy as
a whole. Yes, very dangerous. Now,
because it is dangerous, we must avoid
it. Therefore, the Indonesian Ulema
Council, in its fatwa, views it from
that perspective. Not from the
perspective of a small group of players
who, because they are IT experts, can
do it and gain benefits. But the
benefit is limited to them, it is not
for the general public. Whereas from
the view of a regulator or central bank
, it must provide benefits as a whole.
Yeah.
It's not just the wealthy, not just a
certain elite, not just a specific
segment of society, but everyone must
benefit from this. That's what's
desired, but it doesn't happen. Yes, so
our story is quite long. We see that,
uh...One of the criteria for a currency
, one of its functions, is as a
standard of value. Yeah.
As a standard of value. Now, as a
standard of value, it must be, what,
exactly? It must be upright. It must be
upright and must be, what? Impartial,
and it must be stable. Stable. So the
number one macroeconomic goal is
stabilizing the currency. Yes,
stabilizing the currency. Because, what
do you call it, that currency? If it's
not stable, everyone is disadvantaged.
Not just the rich, the poor, or the
middle class; everyone is disadvantaged
if the currency is not stable. So, one
of the main tasks of a central bank is
how to stabilize the currency of the
nation. So, how to stabilize the
exchange rate or the nation's currency.
That is what the central bank must do
all out, because that is where the
public good lies. Yes, but if it's
already unstable because of, what do
you call it? There are other
temptations. Then, usually, the central
bank is tasked with neutralizing those
temptations so the currency stays
stable.
Now, some of these temptations are
legal, right? Yes, like stock exchanges
, those are legal.
Yes.
Futures markets, stock markets, and so
on, actually contribute to, what do you
call it? They contribute to factors
that destabilize prices. Yeah. Of the
currency, you know. So, for example, if
the stock market goes down, the rupiah
goes down too. If the stock market goes
up or is in the green, meaning
transactions are good, the rupiah goes
up and follows suit.
But sometimes it's the opposite, it
varies. There are some actions where
the market falls, and eventually, the
currency falls too. Now, things like
this are legalized. But they do have,
what do you call it, an impact on the
stability of a currency. And that
cannot be denied. The conclusion is
that we live in a condition where all
sorts of things exist. Yeah.
The goal of regulators to stabilize the
currency—the rupiah in this case—is
, let's say, disrupted by several
things that are legally permitted but
sometimes have a negative impact on the
currency's stabilization process.
That's why the currency can never
really be stable. Because there are so
many external temptations.
And those temptations are all legal,
right? Permitted nationally and do not
violate the law. Yes, so what a country
must do is prepare all its people to
face this as it is. Because we cannot
get rid of it. So that’s where our
discussion is headed. Ustaz, why are
there activities that are highly
speculative in nature and have many
negative impacts on the stability of
our currency, yet they are still
permitted and have even become the
biggest stage for activities
in terms of Rupiah value. For instance,
in the exchange, the value is very
large, very large companies, it can
reach trillions in a day, right? But,
what's it called, it is highly
speculative, isn't it? But it is still
just left alone, right?
Because the law permits it, right? So
when we discuss this with friends whose
background is in Fiqh Muamalah,
he
who don't have much knowledge about
monetary issues, about the economy in
general, then the ustazs who are indeed
in the world of ustazs, the world of
da'wah, do not really delve into this
issue, right? Sometimes, why do they
say, that's what they say, why are
things that are clearly speculative and
dangerous not being banned?
They are still there,
they are still there. So the conclusion
is that we live in an economy where
such things are a part of the economy,
even though they have a negative impact
on the stability of a certain currency,
the state still permits it. Yes, so it
is impossible for us to see a currency
that is truly stable like gold or the
dinar, right? Yes.
Yes.
Like that in the long term
yes. At most 2 or 3 days. they are
already there. Even in just one day,
the prices have already fluctuated,
right? The price chart, masyaallah, if
you look at it, the ups and downs are
very visible. I
now, and that is what the situation is
like, it's like a heartbeat. Yes. This
is our message to the friends
participating in this discussion:
perhaps it is difficult to find an
atmosphere or an economy where there is
no turmoil
i
currency fluctuations
and fluctuations of other commodities.
these are all related to one another
and it is also impossible to eliminate
them, to eliminate them, because the
state might derive benefits from them.
Yes.
There are benefits
there are, taxes for example taxes,
meaning that in the past, like the
futures exchange, when it first existed
, its purpose was actually good. He.
The purpose was, if I look at the
futures exchange back then, for
agricultural products in America, it
was
to, what's it called, what's it called,
to accommodate all agricultural
products, corn, beans, everything
when they harvest too much product, the
price falls
But the government wants it to be
accommodated at a good price, yes,
accommodate however much they harvest,
we will accommodate, the government,
and provide a fair price, yes, so there
is no such thing as oversupply that
causes prices to drop and fall, causing
farmers to lose out, that's how it is,
so there is a storage. Now, these are
the goods or agricultural products that
must be sent where, exported
at a profitable price, right? So
countries that don't have corn can get
it from America, those that don't have
beans can get it from America,
including Indonesia, right?
Yes. Well, it actually started out
quite well, initially there was no such
thing as speculation, the goods were
genuinely there, you know.
But over time, the further development
was that the certificates were traded,
while the goods weren't necessarily
there; that's what's being spun in the
exchange.
That's how it is now, that's what
happens most often, the goods aren't
necessarily there.
Brethren, you are currently listening
to an Islamic economy study. We are
still discussing why cryptocurrency is
still being traded and even used for
payments. Earlier, it was explained why
cryptocurrency trading continues to run
. Even though a fatwa has already
prohibited it. Speculative activities
are also not prohibited.
But speculative activities, which are,
so to speak,
the state also
allows
them. Is there really such a thing,
Ustadz?
For example, what is that? Like if we
look at, for instance, state-owned
enterprises here, in practice,
the government usually provides the
infrastructure, like an exchange, for
example. An exchange is actually a
market, right?
Yeah.
What is traded, if it’s a stock
exchange or a securities exchange, we
call it that, is stocks or securities,
bonds, and so on. But there are futures
exchanges, where what is
being traded are commodities.
Yeah.
Iron, gold, silver, all sorts of things
. Including nickel nowadays, including
coal, and so on. Even things like CPO
are included there, too. Well, there it
is. But these exchanges are actually
non-delivery transactions. That's
generally the case.
Yeah. The buyer doesn't want the goods,
and the seller doesn't have the goods.
Yes, just imagine that.
Yeah.
The buyer doesn't want the goods, and
the seller doesn't have those goods.
Well, this violates the concept of
buying and selling, doesn't it? Because
if I buy something, I want that item. I
want to buy a phone.
I want to buy a phone because I want to
, I want to buy a phone. I want a phone
. I like the phone, you know.
But
the one selling must also have the
goods.
There must be goods, the store must
have the goods. Well, this is not the
case. The buyer does not want the goods
.
Yes.
The seller does not have the goods. So,
what is this? Well, that is what
happens at the exchange.
Yes. Yes. If we talk about other forms
of transactions, Ustadz,
which in detail could be said to be
very similar to gambling, even
considered gambling.
Yes. In several countries, gambling is
legal. Even in Singapore,
Yeah.
The Philippines, too. Many countries,
besides Islamic countries, generally
allow gambling. Yeah.
Hong Kong, Macau.
Oh, the center,
the center of it.
If it's not allowed in Indonesia, then
just go to Singapore. Right, Christmas
Island in Australia, and so on, there
are many places. Because those who
gamble are usually wealthy people.
In Malaysia, it's placed in its own
area called Genting Highlands.
There’s an island, right?
Isn't there? That’s in Kuala Lumpur.
Highlands. So if you don't take the bus
...
Oh, it’s right in the city center,
isn't it?
Yes, it’s like in the forest.
Oh, in the forest. On land.
So we take a bus to that terminal in
Kuala Lumpur and get dropped off there.
Now, once we get to that terminal, what
do we take? Like a mini park, Sir. Uh,
a cable car. Ah, a cable car. Yes.
Hanging, going up the mountain, right.
The scenery is beautiful. So it's a
forest for gambling, for non-Muslims,
and all the food there is haram,
that’s what it says.
But it's localized.
Localized. Now, I happened to go there,
what year was it? 2019, before the
pandemic, I had a task there to
interview someone.
For what purpose, Ustaz? Going there.
Uh, I had an invitation from Maybank.
Oh, Maybank.
Maybank. Yes. Invited by Maybank. Then
one day, I was taken there; I wasn't
there to gamble, I just wanted to know.
I was curious because everything there
is haram, whatever restaurant it is,
even if it’s written in Arabic. "
Hadal matam haram," that’s what it
says.
Haram, but written in Arabic.
And then this.
I was interested in an old lady there.
Hm.
She was already old, her hair was all
white, she was small and thin. I
thought she was maybe between 75 and 80
years old.
Yeah.
Ah, then I interviewed her, but she
couldn't speak the language; she spoke
Mandarin, she was from Hong Kong.
Hm.
There was an officer there who, yes. A
translator. I asked, "Sir, where is she
from?"
From Taiwan. Oh, from Taiwan. Not from
Hong Kong. From Taiwan.
Uh, how old is she?
She’s 76, or I forgot, between 75 and
80.
Hm.
Then what was she doing coming from
Taiwan here? To gamble, believe it or
not. Oh, I was shocked. An old lady
that age. Walking with a cane already.
But her passion for gambling was
extraordinary, to the point of coming
all the way from Taiwan.
Hm.
Yes. So, Malaysia probably can't ban it
. But in Mahathir's time, it was just
localized. Hm.
Yes. But the government gets taxes from
activities like that, right? Now, taxes
are a subject of*khilaf*(disagreement)
among scholars. Whether taxing that is
permissible or not, that existed back
in the old days. Ibnu Khaldun also
wrote about it in*Al-Muqaddimah*.
But we don't need to discuss how to
collect taxes from such activities.
Yes, so, activities like that are not
permitted according to Sharia. And in
Indonesia, gambling also happens to be
prohibited.
However, because gambling now uses
advanced technology,
yes, the government prohibits it. But
internet gambling can be done at any
time, and
I often get offers too, but I block
them, I block them.
Hm.
Those kinds of offers, because they
don't know me, or maybe they do know me
, but they’re just teasing to see if
I’m interested in gambling. Yes.
Especially now with the algorithm
systems, you know, they always pop up
on everyone's apps, Ustaz. Even things
like crypto ads show up all the time.
I’ve never had crypto ads, but I get
gambling ads every single day.
Everything seems to get through, right,
Ustaz? Even though the impact is bad,
as you said.
Even though it's bad, it's actually
being localized.
And it's even been analyzed that this
will really affect currency values,
making them unstable.
Yes, definitely. Then
How do you see this, Ustaz? Can Islamic
economics provide the answer? Well,
this is about the issues with this
flawed monetary system.
So, if economic irregularities, or in
quotes, the "messes"
like this happen in the economy. Then
how does Islamic economics fix that?
Well, just look at the case of the FMI,
that's the answer. Once in the United
States, if I'm not mistaken, it was
1928.
Yes. I forgot the year, but you can
check it on Google.
Yeah.
They tried to ban alcoholic beverages.
Hm.
Because the impact on society at that
time was extraordinary.
So, what did they do? They created a
law. A law.
The draft was made in parliament to ban
alcohol. Then it was enforced. H
After a while, a year or two, drinking
alcohol or owning the factories was
punishable. But the impact was
extraordinary; America itself wasn't
ready for the ban.
H
Finally, this affected the entire
economy, not just a part of it. The
performance of the whole economy was
significantly affected by the ban,
including social behavior and so on. It
became very uncontrollable, and what
happened in the end? They appealed to
the American parliament again to repeal
the anti-alcohol law.
So, that incident actually happened. So
, the case was about alcohol. If we
look at alcohol, its connection to the
real sector is clearer because the
ingredients come from either grapes or,
what do you call it, wheat.
From farmers, right? In France, it's
usually from grapes.
Like special cognac, for example, or
whatever.
That is
those are the regions that have
produced the best wheat since the Roman
era until now. And because of that,
it's the most expensive, the most
premium, so to speak. So, the
connection to the real sector is
visible, directly involving farmers.
Planting grapes is the same as planting
rice, there’s no problem with that.
If we eat the grapes,
it's lawful. What isn't lawful is when
it's fermented into an intoxicating
drink. But that is purely from that,
same with tequila. Tequila from Mexico
is made from what, again? Tequila is
made from, well, a pineapple but a huge
one. It looks like a pineapple. But how
big? Maybe the fruit is 50 times bigger
than a pineapple.
It's huge.
Then it is fermented and processed into
tequila, right. Yes, there are so many.
Many can come from cassava, from palm,
from coconut too. So, if we look at it
from the initial process side, it's
connected to real commodities and that
is halal.
There is no problem. But the next 50%of
the process is what makes it turn into
that.
Right.
That is why the Quran often says there
is benefit in it.
Yes. Um, what is it called? It provides
work for farmers, provides benefits to
farmers because they can sell their
goods, grapes, or whatever to companies
and get a fair price, a price that is
profitable for them. But ultimately, it
is forbidden because the harm is
greater. The sin is greater than the
benefit.
That is why when this verse was
revealed, the companions still consumed
it. Yes.
Because this verse did not forbid it.
Yes. Yes.
This verse says, yes, the harm is
greater than this. Than what is the
benefit.
However, when this came down
it prepared the psychology of the
companions of the Prophet Muhammad SAW
to accept it at some point.
Yeah.
What was the second revelation? The
second revelation was "O you who have
believed, do not..." what is it? "While
you are intoxicated." That is it. Yes.
Do not perform prayers while you are
intoxicated. This verse says it forbids
it only during prayer. So, after saying
"Assalamualaikum," they would drink
again. That is why the revelation of
this verse was three times.
It was gradual.
Gradual, yes. The first stage was about
Al-Baqarah, regarding its prohibition
and its benefits. The second is that
one may not pray while intoxicated.
Because at that time, the reason for
the revelation was that a companion—I
don't know if it was Ali or someone
else—recited Surah Al-Kafirun
incorrectly. "
Laa a'budu maa ta'buduun"—I do not
worship what you worship—but the
verse was reversed to become "I worship
what you worship," so it was jumbled,
and then this verse was revealed. Yes,
do not carry out, do not approach
prayer when you are in a state of
intoxication. Then the last one is
Surah Al-Ma'idah regarding the
prohibition of intoxicants, gambling,
and...among you. This is the final one.
Yes. So three times. An act of Satan.
So if we compare it with the previous
opinion, that speculative activities...
have many negative impacts on the
sector, especially the financial sector
, right. The stabilization of a
currency. In this case, there are
actually no real goods. There are goods
, it is related to the real sector too,
like that. But because
it is dangerous for humans, it is
prohibited. That includes "qimar" or
gambling. Yes, gambling, if you look at
it from the side of its harm, just look
at the movies, right. "God of..." what
is it? "God of Gamblers."
There is a king of gamblers.
There is no such thing in films like
that, even though those who make them
are all non-Muslims.
Yes.
That creates brotherhood.
Yes.
Yes. After winning, they don't become
friends.
It's definitely war. What happens is
definitely war and killing.
Yes. And that is what is happening.
Yes, like.
Because it creates hostility or enmity.
Now, this hasn't happened yet, but it
will certainly lead there and cause
harm, so we avoid it. It's the same
with Bitcoin and its siblings, the
logic is just like that.
Yes. Yeah.
So the answer from Islamic economics
regarding this issue is indeed.
The issue is, first, we must prepare
ourselves that we live in a time.
Where everything exists. Unless we can
manage it, meaning an Islamic economic
system or a Sharia system running
exclusively.
If not, it's impossible. Because if
it's like this, it's inclusive;
everything is still permitted even if
religiously prohibited, the state still
protects it because legally it is
allowed. Now, in such a situation, we
must always be prepared that our
currency will become unstable.
Even though it serves as a standard of
value in our monetary system, it is a
poor standard of value. One of the
functions we mentioned yesterday is
store of value.
Yes.
As a way to protect value, to store
value. But that money, especially our
money, is a poor store of value.
Yes.
Because it is constantly eaten away by
inflation. So, having 100,000 rupiah in
January versus 100,000 rupiah in
December, the value is different, the
purchasing power is different. Right?
And why does that happen? Because of
what is called inflation which.
Even though they say it's fair,
inflation that is too high is very
dangerous for us and for everyone.
Yes.
Yes.
Alright, Ustaz, let's take a break.
Brothers and sisters, may Allah
Subhanahu wa ta'ala have mercy on you.
We will take a short break. We invite
you to join us. Please send your
questions or comments to the Rasil
WhatsApp number at 0811999720. For
those who wish to speak directly with
Ustaz Basri, you can call us at
0218451512. We will be right back. Yes.
Radio Silaturahim and Rasil TV for a
unified Islam. Brothers and sisters,
may Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala have
mercy on you, thank you for staying
with us in the Islamic Economic Study
program. We are still discussing topics
related to last week's discussion, why
cryptocurrency is still being traded
and used for payments; and not just
focusing on cryptocurrency, but also
similar things, its siblings, which are
related to the negative impacts caused
by currency fluctuations occurring in
the country. In several countries, it
has indeed been firm, some have
declared it haram and banned crypto
activities, Bitcoin, and others. But it
cannot be, what do you mean, it cannot
be shut down.
It has been declared haram and banned,
but it cannot be stopped, it keeps
running. Ustaz, there is a lot of
attention from the listeners. There is
also Mrs. Mariati, Mrs. Ani, Mr. Imam,
Mrs. Suratmi, Mrs. Dina Nazar, Mr.
Candra Lubis, and also Mr. Herman, and
Mrs. Darma in Bekasi. Thank you, Ustaz,
for the knowledge; I always listen
while multitasking, doing all my
housework. There is also Mrs. Eti
Rustam, who is also always faithfully
listening, and Mrs. Dian. There is also
Mrs. Hati. Thank you, Ustaz. Gaining
new knowledge. Syukron, the result is
top notch. Meanwhile, we will go to the
first question, Ustaz, from Mrs. Yati.
Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakatuh, Ustaz.
Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi
wabarakatuh.
The Central Bank, like BI earlier, said
that there will be a threat. It seems
like BI is losing prestige due to
digital currencies, which, if we look
at this year alone, are getting higher.
So, like it or not, the central bank
must be active and join in the digital
currency trend. What is your opinion on
that, Ustaz?
Yes. So, the digital currency referred
to is different from something like
Bitcoin. Bitcoin and its siblings are
labeled as what we call cryptocurrency.
H
yes. It is indeed digital, but it is
different. It is a different species.
If we look at it, the item is different
, the nature is different. It cannot be
called a legal medium of exchange.
Meanwhile, the Rupiah is our legal
medium of exchange. There are laws for
it. Now, the difference with what is
meant by digital is like this. How do
we carry Rupiah if we go somewhere? For
example, if we go to Surabaya and carry
10 million Rupiah. That would be quite
a lot of bills, taking up space, and we
might also worry about it getting lost,
being robbed, stolen by someone, and so
on. It’s not practical to carry
physical money like that. So, we are
given a card. If we save our money in
the bank, we are given a card.
With that card, we can access our funds
anywhere. That is what is referred to
as digital. So, we are withdrawing our
own money. Now, if we don't want that,
for example, if we don't want a card,
that's fine too. The consequence is
that we have to carry it everywhere.
Cash. He
Yes, if you want to buy sugar or
groceries from a neighbor, you have to
use a lot of cash. Even so, it is still
accepted. But it is more practical if
we go to Surabaya using a card. If we
need money, we just go to an ATM and
withdraw it anywhere. There are many at
the airport too. And that is the
digital money we are talking about.
This trend is certainly growing,
becoming what you call it? Increasing,
because people are becoming tech-savvy,
even in the villages, people are
tech-savvy like this.
And what he withdraws is his own money,
only it is being kept by the bank, by
that bank. So, this is digital, meaning
it is different from crypto, but I
don't want to repeat it again because
that's already been covered, other
cryptos are not like that. So this is a
currency called Bitcoin
and who issued it, no one knows the
name of the creator, someone named
Satoshi, who is he really? God knows
best.
and so on. So it is different. If you
want to listen to what I said about
crypto last week, the explanation is
there, but I want to explain why this
digital currency is permitted by Bank
Indonesia and the transactions are
growing because they indeed want to
head in that direction. Yes.
It's more practical.
Yes.
Alright, Ustaz. This is Mr. Nazar,
right? Peace be upon you and Allah's
mercy and blessings.
And peace be upon you and Allah's mercy
and blessings. Ustaz, regarding online
gambling, it is also related to how
information technology is developing.
Everyone has a gadget. What is the
government's role, Ustaz, to block
gambling sites so they don't freely
fall into the hands of our children?
Thank you.
Yes. This includes cyber crime.
Cyber crime.
Gambling is prohibited by law in our
country in any form. But with the
existence of the internet, it is very
difficult to
contain it.
Contain it, because it is like oxygen.
Yes.
It is everywhere like that. As long as
there is a signal.
Yeah. It can be reached. If it is
prohibited, the Indonesian government,
for instance the police with their
applications, can hack or shut down
those channels, but they will just
change the channels again. So this is
very difficult, isn't it? Very
difficult.
Yes. The more advanced the technology,
the more sophisticated they get in
finding ways to bypass those bans.
Yeah. Yes, that's why in this case, I
think it's impossible for us to, what
do you call it, abolish it. But what we
must do is pro-provide clear education
to our Indonesian children that it is
dangerous, that it is harmful to us and
, as they say, causes enmity. Education
for everyone. And what is also
important is that this is not permitted
in our country.
Yeah.
Because that is the most important
thing.
Yes.
A fatwa has no teeth, so to speak. A
fatwa, for example from the Ulema
Council regarding the prohibition of
gambling, prohibition of this and so on
.
People might not agree with the fatwa,
might not obey the fatwa, and they
aren't breaking the law because it is
permitted. That is why, once a fatwa is
issued, it should be what? Be
legislated.
Legislated. Yes. In the law, it is
prohibited like that. If that doesn't
exist, only those who are religiously
obedient and have high religious
devotion
will have the awareness to obey the
ulema, which is important. Yes.
Yes.
Regarding moving toward an exclusive
Islamic economy, is that even possible,
Ustaz? No, in this day and age, it's
impossible.
Impossible, is it?
Even in, uh, what do you call it, the
architecture of future economic
development released by the KNEKS and
Bank Indonesia...
It is......
an inclusive, an inclusive economy.
Even though it's Sharia, it is
inclusive. What I mean is, uh...Look at
the heterogeneity—so many ethnicities
, many religions in Indonesia, right?
But......
what you call Islamic economy, Sharia
economy, or Sharia banking is, what
should I say? It is recognized as one
of the banking systems available in
Indonesia. The laws exist as well.
Meaning, this functions not only for
Muslims. Anyone, uh, non-Muslims using
Sharia banks, there is no problem. That
is what you call an institution there.
And we are doing exactly that. Like,
for example, BTPN Syariah, it's called
Bank BTPN Syariah.
Yeah.
Behind it, there are so many, uh, tens
of thousands of customers.
Uh-huh.
UNTT is also the same, being empowered,
right? So there is no problem, and that
is what is meant by inclusive. But
exclusive, for example, saying this
bank is only for Muslims, there is no
basis for that in the Quran either.
Uh-huh.
Because Islam is a mercy to all
creation, right?
Uh-huh.
So, for Sharia insurance, go ahead,
anyone can join.
For Sharia banking, anyone is allowed.
No problem at all.
In creating, for example, a trading
system, buying and selling that follows
Sharia principles.
Yes. There are several non-Muslim
groups who tend to prefer using Sharia
because the spirit is the same, right?
For instance, regarding interest—they
forbid interest.
As something that must be avoided, yes.
There is no other way except to go to a
Sharia bank. That is, there are
actually many of them.
Yes. It's just not exposed.
Not exposed.
Regarding handling the public or the
community itself, Ustaz, how do you
fortify individuals personally?
So, it's about education, like for
example......
how to ensure our generation is not...
...interested in that as well?
It was mentioned earlier that they are
aware of the fatwa. Oh, turns out there
are many. But not aware that this fatwa
is for setting things straight.
Yes. Not aware of the fatwa, the
perpetrators, I mean.
The perpetrators, like for example...
...
crypto is forbidden, those who obey the
MUI fatwa, there are millions of them
if you look.
Yes.
Because they realize that this fatwa
aligns with their expectations that
such things are dangerous. Even the
Central Bank has stated the dangers,
right?
Moreover, we as laypeople should feel
that it is dangerous. But for the
perpetrators who have already been
interacting with things like this......
they are getting benefits. If they get
benefits, they won't want to follow
this. Yes, just like someone who is
used to gambling.
Yeah.
Yes. If gambling is forbidden, they
will just move. Forbidden in Jakarta,
they move to Singapore.
Yes. They will find a way.
Because, indeed, in their hearts, they
are already...
or maybe through cruise ships or
whatever they think is difficult to
detect, right? Hm.
Yes.
Finally, for the facilitator, they
think, wow, it can be online now, right
? Just through online channels.
Where people don't have to go anywhere.
Even just now we received this,
received an SMS, right?
Just an SMS, we just have to click,
they say. Oh my goodness.
Wow. That's why it's a temptation, I
call it a temptation in society today,
our mentality must be prepared.
Yes. There are so many things tempting
us. Not only in religious matters, but
in terms of maintaining goodness, like
maintaining stability, currency is
something that is
full of benefits, right, maslahah.
But maintaining that is difficult,
isn't it?
I remember one advertisement promo.
Yes. On YouTube, they even made a video
profiling someone who was previously
just a cleaning service worker in an
office with a small salary and many
needs. Eventually, they entered a
system, what was it, like
cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, and in 2 years
they had billions in money, and it was
made into a profile video. I now have a
house, I now have this vehicle, have
this car, and it's promoted. Come join
that, Ustaz. Now it's reaching the
millennial generation through that
promo, Ustaz.
Yes. Many applications are also
included, including applications that
are investment-based.
Yeah.
Robot investments or whatever it is,
right?
So it's the temptation of wanting to be
rich, the temptation to be hedonistic.
Now, this
this, you know
is hard for us to avoid, right? In
terms of sharia economy, it is also
difficult to handle. But what sharia
economy develops are activities that
are permitted by sharia.
We have no interest in activities that
are indeed not permitted by sharia,
right? The halal ones are still
overflowing, so many, right? These are
the ones we must develop. We
I am not interested in the area of
haram. That
we have no interest
in entering the haram territory.
Because there are plenty of halal ones.
Correct.
Something very vast, right? We don't
need to look for what is haram. Mrs.
Titi sent her WhatsApp. Assalamualaikum
, Ustaz. May the Ustaz and Rasil always
be healthy.
Amin ya rabbal alamin.
Alhamdulillah, Ustaz, this adds to our
knowledge. Thank you. Wasalam. That's
it, we are limited by time, Ustaz. Yes.
As a closing for our entire discussion,
what would it be, Ustaz?
Thank you, Mas Angga. To the viewers of
Rasil TV and the listeners of
Silaturahim, right. The answer to why
crypto continues to operate or
activities that are speculative in
nature and dangerous for currency
stabilization continue to run in a
country is because they cannot be
banned. So, legally, they are protected
by law even though the impact is
dangerous. That is why we must now
prepare our mentality and our tools to
neutralize the impacts caused by
speculative activities. Yes. Secondly,
the fatwa from the Indonesian Ulema
Council or MUI regarding the
prohibition of crypto and so on is
effective for those who follow it.
Especially Muslims who follow it
because they see it as a danger. But
because the fatwa is not binding, those
who are already comfortable and find
benefits in such crypto transactions
will, for the time being, not abandon
them. Yes, because they are enjoying
what they get from it. So, for those
who are Muslims, perhaps one day they
will receive guidance from Allah
Subhanahu wa ta'ala. That what Islam
wants is not abundance, but lawfulness.
Yes, the lawful and the good, rather
than us getting something that is not
good and not lawful. And those bad
consequences will affect ourselves, our
families, and also our society. That
which is forbidden by Islam must have a
connection.
With our personal condition, our family
condition, and our societal condition.
Hmm. I think that's it. Right.
If the reach doesn't extend there,
perhaps we will keep following our
short-term targets. Short-term worldly
goals that are considered unproblematic
and highly profitable in the short run.
So, the advice and counsel from the
ulema. For now, we just close our ears.
Yes, I think that is it.
Right. Thank you, Ustadz. And also,
thanks to Mrs. Hajjah Nurul in East
Lombok, NTB. Thank you, Ustadz, for the
knowledge. May Rasil always be
successful. Amen. Thank you, Mrs.
Hajjah Nurul.
Thus, brothers and sisters, may Allah
have mercy on you, concludes our
Islamic economy study for today's
edition. Hopefully, what has been
conveyed by Ustadz Ihhan Basri can be
beneficial for us all. God willing, we
will meet again next week. We apologize
for any errors in words. Billahi taufik
wal hidayah. Subhanakallahumma
wabihamdika ashadu alla ilaha illa anta
astagfiruka wa atubu ilaik.
Wassalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakatuh.