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0:02 Brail TV. Brothers and sisters blessed 0:10 by Allah subhanahu wa taala. As usual, 0:13 we will be having a dialogue with our 0:15 resource person, senior journalist Bang 0:17 Nuim Hayat, directly from Australia. 0:21 Peace be upon you, Bang Nuim. And peace 0:24 be upon 0:24 >> you. 0:25 >> How are you, Bang Nuim? Are you well, 0:27 Bang Nuim? Yes, 0:28 >> thank God. But I'm feeling hot and cold 0:30 . Hot and cold, this is 0:32 >> hot and cold. Yesterday it rained here, 0:34 Bang Nuim. Alhamdulillah, hopefully the 0:36 fires have subsided too, Bang Nuim. 0:41 >> Alhamdulillah, so here, day and night 0:44 change, light and dark. 0:47 >> Yes. But speaking of fires, this isn't 0:53 the only thing that's getting public 0:55 attention. Yesterday, there were also 1:01 findings from the Ombudsman in what's 1:05 it called? In Cibinong Prison. Well, 1:08 Bang Noim, the public was shocked by 1:10 the Ombudsman's findings in Cibinong 1:12 Prison, which is said to have 1:14 facilities resembling luxury housing. 1:17 Ee actually ee how does Bang Nuim view 1:20 this? If it is true that there are 1:24 inmates who can enjoy facilities that 1:26 are far different from other inmates. 1:30 Is this just a matter of facilities or 1:31 has it touched on the principle of 1:33 justice in the correctional system? 1:35 Please, Bang Noim. 1:37 >> Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. 1:39 Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi 1:40 wabarakatuh. 1:41 >> Waalaikumsalam. 1:42 >> Yes, I laughed. I laughed because we 1:45 are not only our people, but generally 1:47 forgetful and forgiving. 1:50 >> Heeh. 1:52 >> We remember there was a woman who was 1:53 called Ayin in Jakarta. 1:56 >> Ain. 1:57 >> She is known as Ayin. Not Ain, but Ayin 2:00 . A Y. 2:03 >> Heeh. 2:04 >> This person is, if I'm not mistaken, 2:06 Samsu Nur Salib's representative 2:09 >> in Jakarta. 2:10 >> Yes. Yes. Well, he was then sentenced 2:21 by the Jakarta Corruption Court and 2:23 sentenced to 5 years on July 29, 2008. 2:25 Well, during a surprise inspection of 2:27 another cell in a correctional facility 2:30 in Jakarta, it was reported that, wow, 2:32 his room was incredibly luxurious, 2:34 unlike other people's. Well, Ayin, of 2:47 course, he could afford it. Why? 2:51 Because he is, sorry, I'll tell you 2:53 this, and I'll be accused again of 2:55 being the BLBI man. I was always told 2:58 by the generals back then, who used to 3:00 say, "Oh, here comes Mister BLBI." 3:02 Because I kept bringing up the BLBI 3:05 issue, BLBI. Because at that time, 3:08 hundreds of trillions of rupiah were 3:09 given to various bank owners. Well, 3:13 among those who escaped was a man named 3:15 Sab Dur Salim, and he had a 3:16 representative in Jakarta. This 3:19 representative was named Ayin. Ayin was 3:22 later caught and put in prison. And 3:25 when the surprise inspection of his 3:26 room was carried out, it was indeed 3:28 extraordinarily luxurious. It's 3:31 interesting because it's different from 3:32 the reports of other inmates. How could 3:37 he be so luxurious and so on. But this 3:39 is nothing new. It's 3:40 >> nothing new. I want to remind Mr. Agus 3:43 this. At that time, the Attorney 3:48 General assigned someone who was said 3:49 to be the best prosecutor in Indonesia. 3:53 >> Huh. The 3:55 >> prosecutor was from Bali, if I'm not 3:57 mistaken. This person's name was in 4:00 Bali, he already had a pretty decent 4:02 house—wow, if you think about it, 4:06 >> his house was in Bali, and he was 4:08 entrusted with investigating the 30 4:10 trillion rupiah case 4:14 >> given by the New Order government to 4:16 Samamsud Salim to save the banks that 4:18 were threatened with secrecy. People no 4:22 longer trusted this bank. There was an 4:24 economic crisis, a financial crisis. 4:26 People wanted to withdraw money from 4:28 the bank. The bank didn't have the 4:30 money, so the New Order government 4:31 provided assistance that was supposed 4:33 to be returned to the government later, 4:34 but it was stolen. 4:36 >> Yes. 4:37 >> So, the best prosecutor in Indonesia 4:39 was chosen, Urip Trigwan. 4:42 >> Hmm. 4:44 >> So he led a group of prosecutors to 4:46 investigate the Shamsul Nur Salim case. 4:54 After conducting research, he announced 4:56 that the Samsun Nur Salim case, with 4:58 approximately 30 trillion rupiah that 5:00 he fled to Singapore, was a settled 5:02 matter, he said, because a certificate 5:04 of settlement had been issued under the 5:06 Megawati Soekarno Putri administration. 5:13 On the day he announced this, as soon 5:14 as he finished announcing it, he went 5:16 straight to Ayin's place. Then, 5:19 apparently, he was followed by 5:20 prosecutors. He was caught because Ayin 5:24 gave the best prosecutor in Indonesia, 5:26 Urip Tri Gunawan, 660,000 US dollars. 5:33 So, Bung Agus, 5:35 >> nothing new. Well, what's interesting 5:37 is this. 5:38 >> What's interesting is this. Then I 5:42 heard in Australia, at the time I was 5:44 on Radio Australia, someone said that 5:46 Samsun Nur Salim came to Melbah. I 5:50 wanted to meet him, but he didn't give 5:51 me any. 5:52 >> He didn't give me any. I said, "No way. 5:54 " Then someone from the consulate 5:56 general said, "Why is that impossible, 5:58 Bang Noim?" Because Samsun Nur Salim 6:01 was summoned to Jakarta to account for 6:03 the trillion rupiah case that 6:05 Soeharto's New Order gave him. He 6:08 couldn't fly there because he had a 6:10 doctor's note saying he was sick, but 6:12 how could he fly 8 hours to Melbourne 6:14 from Singapore. This country of ours is 6:19 truly amazing. What is this? Many of 6:23 these Aladdins probably have Aladdin's 6:25 lamps. And that's not all. Not only 6:29 that. Once I was in a taxi in Singapore 6:32 , so I spoke in Hokkien language that I 6:34 still remember with the taxi driver. 6:37 >> Heeh. And he, the taxi driver, said, " 6:39 Look, they say these buildings, look at 6:41 these apartments. This is owned by an 6:44 Indonesian." 6:45 >> Allah. 6:45 >> I said, "Who?" E turned out to belong 6:48 to Samsu Nur Salim. Interestingly, 6:52 >> Samsun Nur Salim, who claimed to be 6:54 sick, did rent a room at the most 6:56 expensive hospital in Singapore. But he 6:58 was visited by Indonesian journalists 7:00 at that time. He never stayed at the 7:02 hospital. He just paid. Yes, he paid 7:04 with our money, the money of the 7:06 Indonesian people. H. So the one in 7:08 Cibidong is a continuation of the one 7:12 >> in Cibidong. Sorry, a thousand 7:15 apologies, this is a continuation of 7:17 what already happened. But we forget. 7:21 So I want to remind you in case someone 7:23 else doesn't remind me. Yes, the person 7:26 is named Ayin. Her clothes are 7:27 extraordinary. When she wears them, 7:29 they are very sexy. I even told a 7:33 friend of mine who happened to know the 7:35 former North Sumatra Police Chief, who 7:37 was known for being very, very honest. 7:43 So when my friend came to Australia, he 7:45 asked, "Do you remember what the North 7:47 Sumatra Police Chief's shoe number was? 7:49 " I said, "Number so and so." Why? Oh, 7:52 he can't afford shoes. I bought him 7:54 some nice shoes here. This person, 7:58 after he finished being Police Chief, 8:00 came to Jakarta and liked to hold 8:02 karaoke at his house. Well, this Ain 8:07 came in wearing very tempting clothes. 8:11 I said, please remind the Police Chief, 8:12 don't let yourself get caught up in 8:14 this because of Ain. So the problem is 8:18 that we forget. So I think it's 8:21 necessary to remind you again, this is 8:23 not a new problem. The important thing 8:27 is how we prevent it in the future, not 8:28 by exposing it and reporting it to the 8:30 people. After all, this has happened in 8:33 the past. How could it happen? 8:35 >> Heeh. 8:35 >> This, this... 9:59 >> This is a very big problem. 10:02 >> Because recently, there have been 10:04 extraordinary corruption cases, and the 10:06 amount is in the trillions. We know 10:09 Harwi Mois, right? 10:12 >> Harwi Mois from tin, how terrible was 10:14 that back then? I have to say, 10:18 corruption has existed in Indonesia for 10:20 a long time. That's why there was an 10:25 extraordinary debate between the former 10:27 vice president, the late Muhammad Hatta 10:29 , and the former owner of the Indonesia 10:31 Raya newspaper, Mukhtar Lubis (the late 10:33 Mukhtar Lubis). Hatta said, "It's a 10:39 shame that corruption seems to have 10:40 become part of the culture in Indonesia 10:42 . It's part of the culture in Indonesia 10:44 . Then MAR Lubis said," Mr. Former Vice 10:49 President, if it's part of the culture, 10:51 then teach it in schools. "Well, if we 10:54 look at one song. This song is very 10:57 interesting, a funny song. It's Minal 10:59 Aidin wal Faizin. 11:01 >> It was composed in the 1950s. Heeh. 11:04 >> There, at the end of the song, there's 11:06 a message: Don't do corruption again 11:08 next year, Faizin. I'm sorry, 11:11 >> don't do corruption. But this was the 11:13 1950s. The difference is, in the past, 11:18 corrupt people were shy about using, 11:20 showing, and flaunting the proceeds of 11:22 their corruption. Now, 11:27 >> they flaunt it. For example, there are 11:29 police officers who are assistant 11:31 commissioners or whatever who own 11:32 houses that are considered incredibly 11:34 luxurious. Unless the house is an 11:35 heirloom, we don't know. This isn't far 11:37 from Jakarta. 11:39 >> Well, let me tell you about 11:41 >> Medan. Well, I'm from Medan. Back then, 11:44 in Medan, people sold lottery tickets 11:46 on the roadside. Usually, it was old 11:48 Chinese people who sold lottery tickets 11:50 on the roadside. Well, the prize, if 11:52 I'm not mistaken, at that time, the 11:54 first prize was Rp. 1 million. Wow, Rp. 11:57 1 million back then, that was an 11:58 extraordinary amount. Well, rumors 12:04 circulated like," Hey, if you buy a 12:06 lottery ticket and win number one, 12:08 don't cash it in. "Why not? If you cash 12:13 it in, you only get Rp. 1 million. You 12:16 sell it to a corrupt official. Huh? Yes 12:19 . Sell it to him, and he bought it for 12:21 Rp. 1,100,000. How is that possible? Ah 12:25 , like this, he bought Rp1 million, 000 12:28 . So he has a lottery ticket and then 12:30 he announces it in the newspaper. Wow, 12:32 such and such an official won Rp1 12:33 million in the lottery. Then when he 12:35 spent Rp5 million, people said, well, 12:37 he won the lottery. People didn't 12:39 calculate, he bought a car that cost 12:41 Rp1 million, he didn't calculate. So 12:43 there's still shame. So, if you want to 12:47 say that a person with shame still has 12:49 ethics, this is a corrupt person like 12:51 this, who still has ethics. But still, 12:56 this corruption has become, as the late 12:58 Muhammad Hatta said, a culture. And you 13:03 can deny this, whatever you want, go 13:05 ahead. But this is the reality. We know 13:10 that when the late Muhammad Hatta died, 13:12 in his room, it is said that among the 13:14 books and in a magazine (if not that 13:16 one magazine), there was a picture 13:18 found. This picture is an advertisement 13:24 for Swiss-made Bali shoes. 13:29 >> Apparently, our late, extraordinary 13:31 vice president wrote a story, an essay, 13:33 a manuscript about our democracy. 13:38 Apparently, he wanted to buy shoes but 13:40 didn't have the money for it. 13:41 >> Yes. So, until his death. Ah, this is 13:45 not an example. In fact, it is 13:46 considered stupid, there is an 13:48 opportunity, why not? This is it. This 13:50 is what we want to make difficult. So, 13:52 people think there is an opportunity 13:54 for corruption, but they don't want to 13:55 do this corruption. Meanwhile, everyone 13:57 else is corrupt. Ah, there are many 13:59 other people who are corrupt. This is 14:01 what we probably need to address. And 14:04 there are much harsher penalties. Don't 14:07 criminalize innocent people. Instead, 14:10 try to free guilty people. So, this 14:15 legal problem, as Mahfud MD himself 14:17 said, is that in Indonesia, 14:18 unfortunately, when they are in power, 14:21 even angels can become devils. We 14:25 should not 14:26 >> try to avoid all of this. This is very 14:29 important, this is not a joke, nothing. 14:32 Poor our people. Poor, we know, 14:35 >> MBG, who was nothing, just praised in 14:37 the morning, and in the afternoon, 14:39 arrested for corruption, but not yet 14:41 found guilty, but there are already two 14:43 pieces of convincing evidence, that's 14:45 why he was arrested. It's a 14:48 >> pity, seeing this. So I once spoke with 14:56 perhaps the most honest police officer 14:58 in Indonesia, Mr. Hugeng, after the 15:00 deceased was no longer a police officer 15:02 because he was included in the petition 15:04 of 50. Perhaps many of you in the 15:06 audience of ee Rasil don't remember 15:08 this petition of 50. It was a petition 15:10 by a group of 50 people led by, among 15:12 others, the late Ali Sadikin, who was a 15:14 form of opposition to Suharto. Well, 15:23 Mr. Hugeng, when talking to me during 15:25 discussions, wouldn't mention Suharto. 15:30 No. But Harto is Harto, 15:36 >> so I said I. He said that once a 15:37 candidate for Chief of Police came to 15:39 me and invited me to attend his 15:41 inauguration the next day. So I said to 15:48 him, please convey this to the members 15:50 of the Indonesian National Police, 15:52 don't carry out these illegal levies. 15:56 Well, this candidate for Chief of 15:57 Police said," What, sir, isn't your 15:59 salary enough? "If your salary isn't 16:01 enough, find another place to eat. 16:02 >> Heeh. 16:03 >> That's it. But the next morning I 16:05 received a call," Sir, I'm sorry, sir. 16:07 The invitation to attend my 16:09 inauguration has been canceled. " 16:11 Apparently, Harto didn't agree to this 16:13 invitation to Mr. ee Hugang. Mr. Hugang 16:16 was a very simple person. I remember he 16:18 only wore sandals. They 16:21 >> met every Tuesday and Thursday 16:24 >> on Jalan Borobudur at Ahli Sadikin's 16:26 place. And when I was in Jakarta, I 16:27 stopped there because I liked the 16:29 >> Sundanese food, which had lots of lalap 16:31 (vegetable salad), lots of ulap ( 16:34 vegetable salad). I was happy, I liked 16:36 to come and meet them for interviews. 16:38 So, he said that if you feel your 16:40 salary isn't enough, don't become a 16:42 police officer, look for food elsewhere 16:44 . Remember, 16:48 >> not so long ago, a teacher reported 16:50 that when he asked his students in 16:51 Indonesia," What do you want to be when 16:53 you grow up? "" Be a police officer. " 16:57 Why?" Wow, there's a lot of money 16:59 coming in, sir. "I see. So, I feel 17:01 sorry for this police officer 17:03 >> with his precision and so on. 17:06 >> Hm. Okay. Bang Noim, but yesterday we 17:09 were also shocked when the former 17:12 Deputy Attorney General for Special 17:14 Crimes, Febri Adriansa, was also named 17:19 a suspect and detained in July 2026 for 17:22 alleged corruption and money laundering 17:24 . Although this case is still being 17:27 processed based on the presumption of 17:29 innocence. However, the great irony is 17:33 that an official who was once at the 17:35 forefront of corruption eradication is 17:37 also caught up in corruption 17:39 allegations. If even the apparatus is 17:43 suspected of committing violations, 17:45 then who will supervise the supervisors 17:47 ? And how can President Prabowo ensure 17:50 that corruption eradication, especially 17:52 Prabowo's enthusiasm for eradicating 17:54 corruption is not just a matter of 17:57 canned, right? Not only sharp at the 17:59 bottom, but also applies to people in 18:01 his circle of power. Bang Noim. 18:04 >> Yes. Just imagine who supervises the 18:07 supervisor? Well, there is an 18:10 expression, yes. 18:11 >> Yes. 18:12 >> In Latin. In Latin, who supervises the 18:16 supervisor? This is what sometimes we 18:19 say," Wow, if it's like this, it's 18:20 never-ending. This supervisor must be 18:22 supervised. It must not be possible. 18:25 Where is this honesty that we should 18:26 see? What's most sad for me is not only 18:31 the arrest of Febri Arjansyah, that's 18:33 not it. But perhaps Mr. Agus remembers 18:41 that previously the prosecutor's office 18:43 had issued instructions to all 18:45 prosecutors throughout Indonesia to 18:46 investigate MBG. 18:51 >> He's 18:52 >> right. 18:52 >> Heeh. There was a circular from the 18:54 prosecutor's office. But when this case 18:58 , after being arrested, was uncovered 18:59 by the police, by the police, and 19:01 handed over to the prosecutor's office, 19:03 suddenly the instruction was revoked. 19:07 What does that mean? What does that 19:09 mean? Don't people think why the 19:13 previous instruction was issued for all 19:14 prosecutors throughout the Republic of 19:16 Indonesia to investigate MBG? Suddenly 19:23 after this was handed over, it was 19:25 reported that there was an instruction 19:27 from a higher authority to, eh, don't 19:28 mention the commotion. We'll see, we'll 19:32 see what happened to Purbaya. 19:35 >> Heeh. 19:36 >> He was there, he was only there for 19:38 about a year and then he was released. 19:40 Why? Because there was a problem with 19:43 the Directorate General of Taxes and 19:44 Directorate of Customs and Excise. He 19:48 wants to do something, people say they 19:50 want to clean up there. Well, this is 19:53 dangerous. So it seems that if we in 20:00 Indonesia had someone honest and 20:02 capable, their career might not be long 20:04 . As a broadcast journalist, Habibie 20:13 also proved that he was a great service 20:15 in liberating the media in Indonesia to 20:17 carry out its duties as the state. So 20:24 it's not a trias politic, but there's 20:25 another one that in England is referred 20:27 to as a fourth trias. So there's the 20:32 judiciary, the executive, the 20:33 legislature, and the media. The media 20:38 is considered the default estate, 20:39 completing the three because it 20:41 requires oversight. Unfortunately, this 20:45 doesn't work. Then, when the media 20:49 tries to carry out its oversight, as is 20:51 its duty, it's called a stooge of 20:53 foreigners, 20:57 >> Londoners, blacks, and so on. So what 21:01 are we left with because we don't have 21:03 an official opposition? 21:06 >> Where was there an opposition before? 21:07 We heard, 'Oh, yeah, PKS is the 21:09 opposition in parliament.' It's not 21:12 heard at all now. 21:13 >> Huh. It's 21:14 >> not heard at all. So without an 21:17 opposition, it's impossible. It's 21:20 impossible. This is a tremendous 21:22 problem. And in Islam, everyone must be 21:26 a kind of opposition to others. meaning 21:30 reminding the person, "This is what you 21:32 did wrong." But if this continues, how 21:36 can we expect any improvement? If this 21:42 is considered something very ordinary, 21:44 then people become unli and so on, it 21:46 has become, people say, part of our 21:48 lives. 21:51 >> Heeh. 21:51 >> In fact, it shouldn't be like that. It 21:54 shouldn't be rasyah. Rasyuah is 21:57 forbidden in Islam. It's not allowed. 21:59 But what can we do? This is not a 22:02 problem. Now, we know that when the KPK 22:06 law was revised, for example, he became 22:09 ASN, ee State Civil Apparatus, at that 22:11 time hundreds of 22:16 >> professors and so on pleaded with the 22:18 seventh President, please Sir, don't 22:20 approve the DPR's decision. But the 22:24 President said this is the will of the 22:26 people, the DPR, yes. He signed it, so 22:32 if there is power, that's why we say 22:34 why we think or many people or there 22:35 are people who think that Habibi was 22:37 actually a capable president 22:44 >> when he took over after the reformation 22:46 , the dollar at that time was 17,600, 22:49 >> yes, it 22:50 >> could be suppressed to 6,000 22:52 >> 6 22:55 >> e 6,500 00, he liberated the media and 22:58 when after he was replaced by 23:00 Abdurrahman Wahid Allah, I went on a 23:02 cruise with a friend. A friend invited 23:06 me on a cruise from England on a ship 23:08 called the Queen Mary 23:10 >> from Southampton. We went to Greece and 23:12 everywhere. Well, when we boarded the 23:15 ship to join the CRUS cruise, we 23:17 happened to be introduced to the 23:18 kitchen head. The kitchen head was an 23:22 Indonesian citizen who had been an ee 23:23 and liked listening to Radio Australia. 23:26 So he knew my name. When we got to know 23:28 each other, he said, "Oh dear, Pakim, 23:30 Bang Nuim, why did you have to join the 23:33 last cruise?" Why was Mr. Habibi on the 23:36 last voyage? Then 23:39 >> where did we stop, Sir? Local officials 23:43 with flag-draped cars came to pay their 23:45 respects just to salute him. 23:47 >> Oh 23:47 >> yes. But I said he was not popular in 23:49 Indonesia. 23:50 >> After only 17 months, he was already 23:52 removed. 23:53 >> Yes. 23:53 >> Yes, unfortunately. Ah, that's him. 23:56 Unfortunately, yes, that's him. But we 23:59 didn't do anything, it's just a shame. 24:02 So, he is capable, some say, it's true 24:04 or not, God willing. Because he was 24:07 once the vice president of Measure 24:09 Smith, an airline company in Germany. 24:13 Some say that there is not a single 24:14 airplane flying today that does not 24:16 contain a contribution from Habibi's 24:18 thoughts. 24:20 >> Allahyarham. 24:21 >> Oh. But because he was rumored to be 24:24 part of the New Order, that's why he 24:26 was rejected by the people at that time 24:28 , Bang Nuim. Even though he was the 24:32 best leader. So you could say that, 24:35 Bang Daif, yes. 24:36 >> Yes. You can. Some say, "Yes, but he 24:39 made a fatal mistake. What was his 24:41 mistake? Well, it was East Timor. 24:43 That's not ours." 24:45 >> Heeh. 24:46 >> So how is it? Yes, I was once here and 24:49 interviewed in Australia. The foreign 24:51 minister at that time was behind 24:53 Allahyarham. 24:54 >> Heeh. He said to me in a cool manner, " 24:57 Eh, don't do anything like that. Don't 25:00 go through Radio Australia. Later you 25:02 said it was East Dili." East Dili. It 25:04 wasn't East Timor before, it was called 25:06 East Dili. That wasn't ours. That was 25:08 ours, the Portuguese, Rian Barat said. 25:10 We didn't join in the withdrawal. Well, 25:12 at that time, but we tried to read 25:14 books written by Americans. How was it 25:20 that at that time, Soeharto's New Order 25:22 entered on December 7, December 7, 1975 25:24 , Indonesia entered East Dili at that 25:27 time. That happened the day after 25:33 President Ford and Henry Kisser left 25:35 Jakarta. 25:40 >> And according to a general, if I'm not 25:42 mistaken, Beni Murdani, he said that 25:44 ABRI had never lost so many soldiers as 25:46 when they were going to enter East Dili 25:48 . 25:50 >> And in the end, what? That wasn't ours. 25:55 It was already known that what we had 25:57 was West Irian, not Timor, it was the 25:59 Portuguese, not the Dutch, who ruled 26:01 there. Why did we enter? Because of 26:04 fear, because America had just been 26:06 defeated in Vietnam. Yes. 26:09 >> So, there was 26:11 >> fear of the spread of communism. Yes. 26:13 That's it. So Indonesia was persuaded. 26:19 And I once said to professors from MON 26:21 University in a seminar in Australia, " 26:23 You guys don't Trying to criticize 26:25 Indonesia in East Timor. You were the 26:29 ones who ordered Indonesia to enter 26:31 East Timor. Now you're washing your 26:33 hands of it." They said after that, yes 26:35 , you're right. We've been played, 26:39 we've become tools, and then we're 26:41 angry. Well, Habibi said, "Okay, let's 26:45 hold a vote." And indeed, the majority 26:49 of the people of Timor Dili, or East 26:51 Timor, or Timor Leste, want to separate 26:53 from Indonesia. In fact, at that time, 26:59 a prominent church leader from the East 27:01 invited me. He came to Melban and asked 27:07 for an interview. I said, "What for, 27:09 Pastor?""Mr. Bishop, that's enough. I 27:12 said I wanted to convey to the 27:13 Indonesian government, don't offer us 27:15 independence yet. Give us autonomy. 27:18 After how many years, we're not ready 27:20 for independence. He said at that time. 27:22 Carlos Belo, 27:23 >> Carlos Belo, I swear it wasn't me. I 27:26 also have a friend from the English 27:28 broadcasting team who I invited for an 27:30 interview. He said," We're not actually 27:32 ready. Give us time, give us autonomy, 27:34 and then we'll be interviewed. "E when 27:36 asked whether they wanted independence 27:38 or to remain with Indonesia. Yes, this 27:40 is also a mess. Habibi, when we did 27:42 this, has handed it back to the UN. 27:46 >> Yes Yes And this was only discovered 27:47 recently after he was no longer there. 27:51 Bang Nuim, we are at the end of the 27:53 event. Bang Nuim, maybe there is a 27:55 little conclusion from our dialogue 27:57 this morning, Bang Nuim. ee yes if we 28:01 look at the teachings of our religion, 28:07 Islam. So if we look at the ee letter 28:11 in the Sad letter, yes, the Sad letter 28:14 is the 38th verse 26, the content is 28:20 very good. said Allah Subhanahu wa 28:23 taala said," O David, indeed we have 28:25 made you caliph on earth. So judge 28:29 between people correctly and do not 28:31 follow your desires, surely it will 28:33 lead you astray from the path of Allah. 28:37 Indeed, those who stray from the path 28:38 of Allah, for them will be a painful 28:40 punishment because they forgot the day 28:42 of reckoning. "So yes, perhaps this is 28:45 a warning for all of us, not just 28:47 judges, prosecutors, 28:49 >> police, soldiers, but for all of us on 28:52 the right path, which is important. 28:55 Because every day, every day when we 28:57 pray, we ask Allah azza waalla, 29:00 ihdinasiratal mustaqim. Show us the 29:03 right path. 29:05 >> Okay, Bang Noim. Jazakallah for the 29:08 enlightenment this morning, Bang Nuim. 29:10 Stay healthy. God willing, we will meet 29:13 again on Monday next week. 29:14 Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi 29:16 wabarakatuh, Bang Noim. 29:18 >> Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi 29:20 wabarakatuh. 
