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In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious
, the Most Merciful. May the peace,
mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon
you. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the
worlds, and may peace and blessings be
upon our master Muhammad and all his
family and companions. O Allah,
increase my knowledge and grant me
beneficial knowledge. Broadcasting from
Jalan Masjid Silaturahim Number 36,
Kalimanggis, Cibubur, Bekasi, Radio
Silaturahim and Rasil TV for one united
Islam, brothers and sisters who are
blessed by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.
How are you doing this evening? I hope
you are in good health. Wherever you
may be, brothers and sisters, I am
delighted, I am Angga Aminudin,
accompanied by Fahri at the operator's
desk. And Ondi is our cameraman. We are
here for the "Open Your Eyes, Open Your
Ears" program, edition of Sunday,
January 11, 2026. This is our first "
Open Your Eyes, Open Your Ears" program
this year, kicking off 2026. Of course,
we are with our guest, Dr. Sarbini
Abdul Murad, Director of Indonesia for
Peace and Humanity. He is an activist
and a humanitarian volunteer, and thank
God, he has joined us via Zoom. Peace,
mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon
you, Dr. Ben.
>> And peace, mercy, and blessings of
Allah be upon you, Mas. Thank God, Doc.
Are you healthy?
>> Thank God, I am healthy. Thank God, our
topic this evening is about the Arab
states, Doc. The politics of Arab
states in resolving the Palestinian
issue. Looking at the phrasing, it
raises many questions because the
phrase "Arab states in resolving" is
used. There is the word "resolving." Is
this merely rhetoric, or is it truly
strategic? Now, to discuss this, Dr.
Ben, who are we bringing on, Doc? Who
has the doctor invited to the BMBT
tonight?
>> Yes. The person we are inviting today,
tonight, is my teacher.
>> This is my teacher. He is a former
Kompas journalist who resided in Cairo.
>> Hm.
>> He is Mr. Mustafa Abdurrahman. I never
missed his writings in Kompas. That is
why he is my teacher. At first, I saw
his reports in Kompas. I would buy it
just for the reports by Mr. Abdurrahman
, Masha Allah. So, I am happy we can
have him with us tonight because he has
now settled in Indonesia and he is very
experienced. He knows exactly, meaning
he knows the Middle East issue from A
to Z. That is why we invited him for a
long, in-depth discussion, because
while others are more like observers,
he is someone who was directly on the
front lines of these issues.
>> Because journalists are usually
different.
>> He has already joined us, right Doc?
Mr. Mustafa Abdurrahman, peace be upon
you, Mr. Mustafa.
>> Peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be
upon you.
>> How are you doing this evening?
>> I am well, thank God, healthy.
>> Dr. Ben, you always have such
interesting guests.
>> Now you have even brought your teacher.
Very well. Mr. Mustafa, when were you a
journalist, Mr. Mustafa?
>> I joined Kompas...My background is
Al-Azhar, sir. I am an alumnus
>> of Al-Azhar Cairo.
>> Cairo.
>> Yes.
>> So, an alumnus of Al-Azhar Cairo.
Finished in the year 2000, uh, 1990.
>> Uh-huh. After finishing, I joined
Kompas in 1991.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Uh, uh, from '91, retired in 2022.
>> Hmm.
>> So that’s recent, right?
>> Recent. Just 3 years.
>> Just 3 years.
>> Just 3 years, yes. How many years was I
at Kompas, then? More than 30 years,
right?
>> More than 30 years, yes. And your
assignment in Egypt meant that from
your studies, you eventually became a
Middle East correspondent too.
>> Yes. It happened that Kompas needed a
journalist based in the Middle East.
>> Then they met me and it was a fit, so I
was immediately placed there. So I
didn't really have to go home anymore.
I went home just for holidays.
>> So I stayed there. Eventually I felt at
home,
>> comfortable and suited for this job,
you know. It continued for up to 30
years, like that.
>> Hmm. So, your experience reporting or
conducting interviews in Arab countries
is quite extensive, isn't it?
>> Yes. So I was responsible for the
entire Middle East region.
>> Uh-huh.
>> But based in Egypt. In Cairo.
>> Based in Egypt.
>> So Cairo was just the post. But the
work covered the whole Middle East. And
throughout my career at Kompas, I have
visited or made journalistic trips to
22 countries in the Middle East. So
almost all Arab countries, from Morocco
to Iraq; outside of Arab countries, to
Afghanistan twice; and back and forth
to Turkey to cover Turkish elections.
>> To Cyprus, to Pakistan, to, uh, Senegal
to cover the OIC.
>> Uh, Islamic, the OIC summit or Islamic
conference, yes. So that's how the work
was, moving around. Certainly,
>> the biggest [story], because I was a
reporter stationed in the Middle East,
was the reporting on the Palestinian
issue or the Arab-Israeli conflict.
>> Now, Palestine, Gaza, the West Bank,
those are the areas I visited the most,
or most frequently.
>> You mentioned, right?
>> Yes, to Gaza, to, okay.
>> Uh, uh, the West Bank. Yes. How many
>> times, maybe eight or nine times I
think.
>> So you have prayed at Al-Aqsa too,
right?
>> Uh, very often. I have visited Al-Aqsa
Mosque more often than
>> the Masjid al-Haram in Mecca.
>> I have only been to Masjid al-Haram
four times.
>> To Al-Aqsa Mosque, maybe eight or nine
times for me.
>> Mashallah.
>> More often, then. And I have
interviewed almost all the Palestinian
leaders. Hmm.
>> Especially Hamas, right?
>> Hamas, yes,
>> with the late Ismail Haniyeh,
>> and I had already met Sheikh Yassin in
Cairo.
>> Oh, in '91, so you had the chance to
meet Sheikh Yassin.
>> Sheikh Yassin in '97, after he was
released.
>> He was in jail; in '97, I flew directly
to Gaza from Cairo via Amman to
interview Sheikh Yassin.
>> Yes, yes. And then with almost all the
figures, even the younger ones, I am
still close with those Hamas figures.
So friends
>> then with Fatah and lastly with the
Fatah figures who visited Jakarta a few
months ago, Barkuti, I met them too
>> I was invited by him, right.
>> And I also handled the PR and press in
Jakarta. So, it was really blood, sweat
, and tears back then
>> bloody. So, what keeps you busy now
after retiring from Kompas?
>> Well, I'm mostly resting now.
>> Just resting.
>> But I still go to Egypt often; I'll be
going back there in April.
>> Okay. Where did you meet Dr. Band, Mr.
Musa?
>> How so?
>> Where did you meet Dr. Band?
>> In Cairo.
>> In Cairo.
>> How long ago was that? Yes. Almost 20
years ago, he wanted to go to Gaza. At
that time, I was still active there.
Yes. Well, that's how it was. So every
time Dr. Zarbini went to Cairo, he
would meet me; lastly, we went together
to the Gaza border back then
>> it was fine. Meaning, in the field, we
shared many ups and downs together.
>> Yes. Extraordinary. So with him, thank
God, it's like Mr. Angga together with
the current Ambassador, Mr. Trias
Kuncahyo, recently
>> the three of us from back in those days
.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He is now the Ambassador
>> of the Republic of Indonesia to the
Vatican.
>> He was my friend and colleague at
Kompas.
>> Good.
>> Yeah.
>> Friends, we have an extraordinary guest
tonight. And our topic is the politics
of Arab nations in resolving the
Palestinian issue. Brothers and sisters
, listeners, we also invite you. Please
feel free to send your questions or
comments regarding the topic we are
discussing tonight to the Rasil
WhatsApp number at 811999. We will
start with Dr. Band. Dr. Band, as an
opening, why are we raising this topic,
Dr. Band?
>> Yes. We see that Palestine is, so to
speak, the front and back yard of the
Arab nations.
>> Yes.
>> Whether it's Egypt, Jordan, then
Lebanon, or other parts of the region,
they are indeed of the same roots and
religion. And today, they are
experiencing such a prolonged conflict
in Gaza. So, up until today, there is
no common ground or clear point to
resolve the Palestinian issue
concretely, civilly, and ethically.
There is none at all. Even though
Palestine is present in the midst of
its own brothers. So, because of that,
we see that there are Arab countries
that do care about Palestine, but there
are also many Arab countries that don't
care about Palestine at all. Some even
undermine it, undermining Palestine. So
, this raises a big question, a big
question as to why this can happen,
causing many Arab countries to betray
the Palestinian struggle, even though
some appear to support Palestine, but
in the end, they undermine it. So, for
that reason, we have a question, and
perhaps all the listeners also have
questions that are more, how should I
put it, more unsettling. Why could it
be like this? Well, that is why with
Mr. Mustafa Abdurrahman here, he can
explain his interactions with
high-ranking officials or figures in
Egypt, especially Egypt, which I think
plays a very huge role in resolving the
Palestinian issue. Because we see that
if, for example, Mas Angga, if Morsi
were still there, I doubt whether
Israel would dare to attack Gaza or not
. Perhaps I will ask Bang Mustafa about
that later. And we also see how, for
example, the role of Islamic politics
in Arab countries is declining
significantly in today's condition. I
think that is something we need to
delve into later, Mas Angga. Hopefully,
this will provide extraordinary insight
for Rasil listeners so we can
understand the root of the issue—why
some Arab countries open their eyes,
while others close them with their
fingers. Yes, there are some like that,
Mas. That is our discussion for now,
Mas Angga, as a prologue.
>> All right, Doctor Ben. I will turn to
Mr. Mustafa Abdurrahman. Mr. Mustafa,
if it was said earlier that some Arab
countries seem indifferent to Palestine
, we could also say that almost the
majority of Arab countries officially
support Palestinian independence. But
mostly through a two-state solution,
right? But let's look at the practice.
That support is often just diplomatic
or symbolic in nature. It is not even
always followed by consistent political
steps or real defense. Regarding this,
Mr. Mustafa Abdurrahman, perhaps you
could provide your analysis to all of
us tonight. What is the real politics
of Arab countries regarding Palestine?
Please, Mr. Mustafa.
>> Yes. Thank you. Sorry. So, I will draw
upon the latest developments.
>> Regarding the Palestinian issue,
especially Gaza. Hmm. The most recent
development is, of course, inseparable
from the outbreak of the Gaza war. The
Gaza war, which has been going on for
two years, or around two years. This is
the bloodiest and longest war. The
bloodiest since the Arab-Israeli
conflict in 1948. Well, this Gaza war,
which is so devastating, has indeed had
an extraordinary impact on Palestine in
particular, and on the Arab world and
the Islamic world in general. Due to
this Gaza war, the landscape of the
Palestinian struggle ahead will change
completely, changing significantly. Yes
, this is indeed the price that must be
paid by Palestine, the Arab world, the
Arab nations, and the Muslim community.
Hm.
>> Whether you agree or not? Whether you
reject it or accept it. But this is a
fact that must be accepted by the
people of Palestine, the Arab nations,
and the Muslim community, including us
who live in Indonesia.
>> That is, the existence of a changing
landscape for the struggle ahead.
>> What is that change?
>> Whether you agree or not? That, uh, the
course of, uh, the Palestinian struggle
going forward, or in other words, if we
talk about the future of the
Palestinian solution, we have to, like
it or not, accept that, uh, the future
of Palestine must be based on 1803 yes,
which was just issued. And, uh, this UN
Security Council resolution 1803 is
also based on the peace proposal of US
President Donald Trump which consists
of those 20 points, yes. So Trump
suddenly, uh, issued or released that
peace proposal which was then also
accepted by, uh, a number of key Arab
countries like Egypt, Turkey, Qatar,
Saudi Arabia, yes, including Indonesia
as well, yes. And then this Trump peace
proposal was legalized—what is the
more fitting term—was legalized or
legitimized by UN Security Council
resolution number 1803. So if we talk
about Palestine right now, we cannot
escape from this. It means we are
forced to, uh, what do you call it,
speak about or accept, even though
perhaps our hearts object, that, uh,
the concept of the Palestinian solution
now and in the future cannot be
separated from the American umbrella,
right. Separated from American
influence or cannot be separated from
American design, right. Now, because,
uh, UN resolution number 1803 is
actually, uh, originated from or, uh,
what do you call it, its issuance is,
uh, based on Trump's peace proposal. So
it is truly designed from Washington,
so now if we talk about Palestine now
and in the future, regardless of
whether we agree or disagree. Now, with
the UN Security Council resolution, uh,
the Gaza war has now, uh, stopped, yes,
a ceasefire was reached since October
10, 2025. Even though here and there,
uh, Israel often violates that
ceasefire. I just read on Al Jazeera
that since the ceasefire in Gaza was
reached on October 10, 2025, uh, Israel
has almost every day violated that
agreement. Almost every day, uh,
carrying out attacks, and until now
since the, uh, achievement of the
ceasefire, there have been 439 uh,
Palestinian people in Gaza killed, yes.
Then there are as many as 1,223 injured
since the ceasefire was reached. So
what is called a ceasefire? Yes, it is
actually not entirely a ceasefire.
There are still attacks here and there,
shootings here and there. Almost every
day Palestinian people in Gaza are
killed, yes. As a result of Israel
violating, uh, what do you call it? The
ceasefire. Okay, let's not, we don't
need to talk in detail, what do you
call this, what, uh, whether it is
truly a ceasefire or not, the important
thing is that the Gaza war macro-wise
has stopped, meaning that the genocide
has successfully been, uh, stopped,
right. Yeah. Now, uh, back to UN
Security Council resolution 1803 which
has become the foundation or the only
rule of the game that exists on the
ground now. We cannot talk about, uh, a
Palestinian solution outside of,
outside of this solution, this is
already an international agreement
since, what do you call it, through, uh
, the Trump conference, yes, back then,
then followed by the issuance of UN
Security Council resolution 1803. So,
this is the broad framework, or what
you might call the fundamental pillars
for right now. For now, at least for
now, if we talk about a Palestinian
solution, it must refer to 1860. No one
can do anything about it because
America is extraordinary right now, and
its influence and power on the internet
are becoming uncontrollable. We know,
what's it called...They talk about
kidnapping the president of Venezuela;
they act so arbitrarily. Previously,
they attacked Iran, and Israel is also
acting arbitrarily. Now, they attack
Syria or Lebanon whenever they want;
it’s truly rampant everywhere. And at
the same time, why is this happening?
Because the Arab nations and the Muslim
community are currently at their lowest
, weakest point. So, the Arab nations
are divided and not united, and
Palestine is the same. So, if we say
the Arab nations are currently in their
lowest, weakest position, this is what
makes Israel and America run rampant
and grow bolder. What is happening in
Iran now, the demonstrations there,
it’s clearly Mossad and the CIA
playing a role. This means things are
being meddled with everywhere, and
other countries are just waiting for
their turn. So, when talking about
Palestine, it is inseparable from the
strong influence of America and Israel
right now. Regardless of whether we
agree or not. This is a fact, right?
Now, okay, if we debate the pros and
cons, it will never end. If we talk
about UN Resolution 1860, there are
surely positives and negatives. But I
have studied and read that resolution.
If UN Security Council Resolution 1860
is implemented comprehensively, not
partially, and not separated, I believe
it will benefit Palestine. Why? Because
in which clause was it? The third one,
it affirms that in UN Security Council
Resolution 1860—let me repeat—there
is a clause that states if the
reconstruction of the Gaza Strip makes
progress and the formation of the
Palestinian Authority government also
makes progress, then the door will open
for negotiations toward the
establishment of a Palestinian state.
So, for the first time, there is......
in the UN Security Council resolution,
it affirms the existence of a
Palestinian state. And the phrase "
Palestinian state" appeared at a time
when America and Israel hold very
strong hegemony right now. So, there is
an opportunity there. Then, besides
this clause, there is also a clause
that America will initiate a dialogue
between Israel and Palestine to create
conditions and situations where the
people of Palestine and Israel can
coexist peacefully. Now, this is very
positive, and ultimately, it will lead
to a two-state solution. But the
problem right now is, first, there is
no timeline, no schedule for when these
negotiations regarding the Palestinian
state will begin. Then, whether Israel,
once it reaches this stage, will accept
it or try to evade it with various
excuses. Now, this is a different issue
. But the Palestinian people, the Arab
nations, and the Muslim community must
unite to demand that UN Security
Council Resolution 1803 is consistently
implemented in a comprehensive manner.
And the Arab nations and the Muslim
community must also engage Europe, as
many have already recognized the
Palestinian state, such as Britain,
France, Spain, Australia, and Canada;
they must be engaged. As for China and
Russia, there is no problem there.
Latin America is not an issue. If the
Arab nations and the Muslim community
can gather this extraordinary
international strength, it would leave
only America and Israel isolated. This
is an extraordinary power to pressure
for UN Resolution 1803 to be
implemented consistently and
comprehensively. Now, what has been
completed so far is just the first
phase. The first phase of 1803 is the
achievement of a ceasefire in the Gaza
Strip. Then, the exchange of prisoners.
This has been completed. We are now
entering the second phase, which should
have started this month. The second
phase involves the reconstruction of
the Gaza Strip, the formation of an
independent Palestinian government, and
then the rather difficult task of
disarming Hamas. This is still being
debated now: what is the mechanism for
disarming Hamas? So, this is the second
phase. Specifically, disarming Hamas.
Then, the deployment of UN peacekeeping
forces or an international stability
force. So there are four points that
need to be addressed. The formation of
this international stability force is
also still being debated regarding its
mission and vision. Then, the
disarmament of Hamas. Then, the
formation of a Palestinian Authority
government that is responsible for Gaza
, replacing Hamas. And finally, the
reconstruction of the Gaza Strip. These
points are all very heavy. How long
will it take? How much time? Two years,
three years? Only after this is
finished. The third phase will then be
the establishment of the Palestinian
state itself. I ask all of you present
here to study and look at UN Resolution
1803 again, to examine it further. If
necessary, discuss it specifically in
this forum; open your eyes and focus on
UN Security Council Resolution 1803,
because that is the only mechanism or
concept for a solution currently on the
table that has become an international
agreement, serving as the sole
reference for a Palestinian solution
now and in the future. Therefore, it
must be monitored to ensure it is
implemented correctly. Because the
issue with Israel, as has always been
the case, is that they have never
complied with UN Security Council
resolutions. It has never been about,
what you call it, the PA, right? Back
then there was UN resolution number 242
, there was UN resolution 338 which was
born in the year, uh, after the '67 war
, that Israel is not justified in using
force to occupy other people's
territory and must withdraw. If Israel
were to comply with UN resolutions 242
and 338, it should have withdrawn from
the West Bank, from, what is it, East
Jerusalem, and from Gaza, right? Well,
there was Sinai too, but Israel
withdrew from Sinai through Camp David,
the Camp David Accords. Then from
Jordan, it was also through a peace
treaty with Jordan, not through the
mechanism of implementing UN
resolutions. So, historically, Israel
has indeed never complied with UN
Security Council resolutions. Even
recently, when the Gaza war happened, a
UN Security Council resolution was
issued demanding a ceasefire. But
Israel just wouldn't, wouldn't do it,
right? Only after Trump returned to
power in the White House did he then
issue the peace proposal consisting of
those 20 very famous points. Then it
was legalized through UN Security
Council resolution 1803 only then was
Israel willing, although its
willingness, uh, seems not to be
wholehearted. The proof is that attacks
still happen almost every day in Gaza.
Almost every day, Gazan citizens are
killed or injured, right? Yes, perhaps
because the pressure from Trump's
administration on Israel is very strong
, so for the time being, Israel is
still willing to comply and follow
Trump's wishes. And this, uh, is what
we, the Palestinian people, and the
Arab nations must adapt to in this new
situation, we must follow this rhythm.
So, by making the implementation of UN
Security Council resolution 1803 a
success, and this must be overseen from
beginning to end. Because if this is
truly implemented comprehensively and
consistently, then strategically it
will benefit Palestine. I don't
understand how Trump was thinking when
he drafted these clauses. Suddenly,
there is mention of a Palestinian state
. Is Trump truly sincere? Yes, he does
indeed want to find a comprehensive
solution in the Middle East. Because
without a Palestinian solution, there
will be no solution in the Middle East
until the end of time. As long as the
Palestinian issue isn't settled, no
matter which way you turn or which door
you try to enter through, nothing will
work without a comprehensive and fair
resolution to the Palestinian issue.
But suddenly, did Trump include the
phrase "Palestinian state" out of
sincerity, or is it just a tactic to
get the Arab nations to accept the,
what's it called, the solution? Because
the pressure from Arab nations for a
Palestinian state solution is very
strong, especially from Saudi Arabia
and Egypt, right? Turkey and Qatar as
well. So it is extraordinary. Saudi
Arabia has even set a red line. Saudi
Arabia has often been persuaded by
America to open diplomatic relations
with Israel, to normalize with Israel,
and to join the Abraham Accords forum.
Yes, the Abraham Accords is a forum of
several Arab countries that opened
diplomatic relations with Israel in
2020. Those Arab countries are the
United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan,
and Morocco. Now, the latest one to
join the Abraham Accords is Somaliland.
>> Yes, on December 26th, suddenly Israel
recognized Somaliland and Somaliland
also agreed and acknowledged that I am
joining what is called the Abraham
Accord forum, so it adds another one,
although this is a separate issue later
. Now, returning to the Abraham Accords
, the one actually being targeted is
Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia by Trump.
But the Saudis have been firm, "I will
join the Abraham Accords as long as
Israel recognizes the Palestinian state
." And this is, okay, Saudi Arabia is
still firm. Including Indonesia, which
was also persuaded to join the Accords
but refused, right? The ones being
targeted are indeed the big ones, like
Saudi Arabia and so on. So, now this
must be a commitment from Saudi, Egypt,
then Turkey, Pakistan, and also with
Indonesia in the background, so that
the issue of the Palestinian state
solution with the two-state solution
concept is non-negotiable. So, they are
willing to open diplomatic relations
with Israel provided Israel accepts the
establishment of a Palestinian state.
This is what must be fought for
together and must be guarded, just like
that. The picture later should be to
build an International Caucus involving
Europe, Latin America, to oversee the
UN Security Council resolution 1803
until it is completed, from A to Z.
Don't let it stop in the middle.
Because it seems Israel wants it to
stop in the middle. Now, this must be
completed, how to pressure Israel so
that Israel accepts it; surely, to
pressure Israel, the key is the
condition. How can we now convince
Trump, convince Trump that Trump wants
to pressure Israel to accept UN
resolution 180 from A to Z? Don't,
don't, don't, what is it? Let it be cut
up like that. The key must be that
condition. So now, it has to be about
how not to oppose Trump, but to
approach him. Because indeed, in the
world right now, the one holding the
cards is Trump, the one giving them is
Trump. Whether we agree or not. That is
the fact now. That is why all
international solutions must go through
Trump, and only Trump can make
Netanyahu yield. He wouldn't yield,
including on the issue of UN
resolutions, without Trump. So, if
Netanyahu wants to accept UN resolution
183, it's not just the resolution
itself, but because Trump is behind him
accepting it. If Trump weren't there,
it would be rejected like other
Security Council resolutions. So, it is
actually not the resolution, but Trump.
So, he must be held and he must, what
is it? Willing to work together,
willing to, accept or understand,
understand the aspirations, don't start
with Palestine yet. Palestine is quite
difficult, perhaps internationally.
Internationally, there is Europe, there
is Canada, there is Australia, right?
They might be thinking that the ones
pressuring me are my friends, from
Europe, from here. That is why their
position is difficult, it will be quite
dilemmatic. If they follow Israel too
much, it's also tough, because they
have to deal with Europe, not just with
the Arabs or Latin America, but with
Europe. Europe must be embraced. This
is a tactic. This is a tactic that I
think is sufficient. So, the Arab world
, the Islamic world must embrace Europe
right now. While Europe is on our side,
that is. This is the first time that
major European countries have
recognized the State of Palestine, such
as England, France, then Spain, Ireland
, and Canada. That is a momentum that
has never happened since the outbreak
of the Arab-Israeli conflict. This year
is an extraordinary momentum. This
should not be missed or wasted. So we
must manage it, we must manage it so it
becomes a great force that can pressure
Israel.
>> Now, returning to how Palestine will be
in the future, the only concept that
exists on the ground right now is UN
Resolution 1803. Yes, I think that is
what can be conveyed for now. Maybe we
can continue in the next discussion.
Thank you. Still
>> Mr. Mustfa, before I go to Dr. Band, if
we look at the politics of the Arab
countries themselves in responding to
all resolutions, how is it generally?
Because they surely support UN
diplomacy in general, right? Many also
criticize it for not being strong
enough. They still see that it is
Israel that keeps violating it, right?
Now, in terms of solutions, how are the
attitudes and responses of Arab
countries whenever there is a Security
Council resolution, sir?
>> Sorry, please repeat it again, sir,
sorry, repeat it like this.
>> Yes. Roughly the response
>> the response of Arab countries to the
Security Council resolution 180, the
Security Council that was issued, what
is their general response?
>> Yes, they agree to support UN
Resolution 180 because it is the only
way or the only concept of a solution
that can stop the war. The Gaza war has
had extraordinary, immense casualties.
The price paid by the Palestinian
people is very, very high. The people
of Gaza who have died as a result of
the Gaza war over about 20 years are
around 70,000. 70 or up to 80,000 dead,
yes. Then those injured are about
150,000. If you combine those dead and
injured, it is more than 200,000. Or
about 10%of the total population of
Gaza, which is around 2.3 million. What
nation on this earth could bear the
burden of having 10%of its people
killed or wounded? Right. There isn't
one. Take Indonesia, for example; its
population is nearly 300 million now.
Could the Indonesian people accept 20
or 30 million of their own fellow
citizens being killed or wounded? It
doesn't exist on this earth. And this
is a fact that has been accepted, or
rather, what is happening in Gaza. Not
to mention the destruction of
infrastructure; Gaza is ruined, no
longer fit for habitation.
>> Like that. So, a total reconstruction
must be carried out. It is
extraordinary, an extraordinarily high
price paid by the Palestinian people,
the highest since the Arab-Israeli
conflict began in 1948 or since the
first Arab-Israeli war in 1948. This is
the longest war, with the largest
number of casualties. So, the very high
price paid by the Palestinian people
must not go in vain; it must realize
the Palestinian dream, which is the
establishment of a Palestinian state.
So, the establishment of a Palestinian
state can no longer be avoided, sir. I
am convinced that a Palestinian state
will be realized, sooner or later. What
will bring the Palestinian state into
existence is the Gaza war itself. That
is the extraordinary price paid by the
Palestinian people in the Gaza war. Is
there any? I ask now, is there such
great international support for the
establishment of a Palestinian state?
Could we have imagined before this that
England, France, Spain, Canada, and
Australia would recognize a Palestinian
state? That was unimaginable before. H
>> that, and that is a fact now. What is
left is perhaps Germany, or Italy will
follow; it is only a matter of time. So
, in my belief, a Palestinian state is
unavoidable and will happen.
>> And I am confident a Palestinian state
will be realized through UN Security
Council Resolution 181. Through this.
>> Right. Right.
>> Through the UN resolution, right. I
have this belief, this optimism.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> My optimism could be wrong, but until
now, I still hold that belief. As long
as one thing remains, sir: be united.
Do not be fragmented. If the
Palestinian people are united, the Arab
nations are united, the Muslim
community is united, Europe is united,
no one can stop this massive tide.
>> This is still ongoing, sir. The
Security Council resolution is still in
process. This is still the second stage
. Entering the second stage, then after
that, the third stage. The first stage
is okay, done, this is just about to
enter the second stage. How long this
second stage will take, we don't know
—a year, 2 years, 3 years—after
that, the third stage. It is definitely
a process, sir. So, if we are talking
about...Well, the Palestinian issue is
currently in process, there is a
process, and we must be united to
realize our shared dream, which is the
establishment of a Palestinian state.
>> Alright. Very well, Mr. Mustafa. Next,
I will go to Dr. Band, yes. Interesting
, Dr. Band. Oh, such extraordinary
optimism. However, we also see, Dr.
Band, that Arab politics today can be
said to be fragmented, right? Moreover,
the Palestinian bargaining position in
negotiations seems to be weakening. The
proof is how America positions Israel,
even though it has been isolated in the
last two years by countries around the
world, including the West, meaning
Palestine has lost solid regional
support. If we were supposed to be
united, the lack of solidarity now
finally allows Israel more freedom to
control things. How does Dr. Band view
the actual ideals of Muslim solidarity
today, compared to the realism of Arab
countries 'interests? Now, at the
meeting on the 16th, if I'm not
mistaken, or whenever that was in
Semsek, where Trump came for the
celebration of the peace deal, there
was competition between Saudi Arabia
and Egypt, right? The initiator was
Egypt, many countries attended, even
Prabowo was there. But Saudi Arabia did
not send anyone, they didn't come
because they felt, "Why is Egypt taking
the lead, why not me?" So, this Arab
discourse is quite competitive, isn't
it? Who holds the monopoly, who is in
power, that is strong. Like the Arab
Summit or OIC Summit in Kuala Lumpur,
it was because several Arab countries
were invited—Qatar, Pakistan, Turkey,
Indonesia—but Pakistan was threatened
by Saudi Arabia not to attend, right?
So, there is actually competition among
Arab countries in resolving the
Palestinian issue, Mr. Mustafa.
>> Well, perhaps we will discuss this
further with Mr. Mustafa later. For
example, let's narrow it down to phase
two. According to Mr. Mustafa, phase
two could be finished in two or three
years. After that, maybe we will enter
phase three, which is Palestinian
independence. But this second phase is
a very, very precarious phase. We are
also looking at whether Egypt will send
troops. So, the question is, the
question that needs to be discussed
together is: is the ISF an
international stabilization force
entering Gaza? Its task is only one: to
disarm. So Israel withdraws, withdraws.
So, we don't know if Arab countries
agree with the task of this ISF force
to disarm. And maybe Mr. Mustafa might
have information later, would Egypt
want to come to Gaza to disarm Hamas,
since Hamas says that they are
occupiers, right? So there are
different ways of looking at this. And
then we also look at how Qatar, for
example, is involved. Qatar is much
more proactive. So, I want to reference
Mrs. Reno's words. When Mrs. Reno met
me at Monas, she said that the only one
sincerely and genuinely helping
Palestine is Qatar. As for the others,
it feels more like just lip service. So
, the fault is that there are different
poles, different poles at play. Now, so
because of the solidarity, as Bang
Mustafa said earlier, this could enter
the third phase, where Palestinian
independence could be achieved. But the
current issue is not resolved yet. For
example, the issue of the governing
council is still being tugged back and
forth, including Tony Blair's
involvement. So, he has investments
there. Then, the Palestinian Authority
also wants to get involved. Egypt is
more supportive of the Palestinian
Authority. So, regarding who will
govern, there is actually no agreement
yet. So okay, let's assume that in this
second phase, the most crucial issue is
disarmament. Hamas. Has firmly stated,
I don't want to, I don't want to be
disarmed, right? So, okay then. The
first point is the governing authority.
But until today, there has been no
official decision. Who is this
authority that will actually take power
? Who will handle it? Will it be the
Palestinian Authority endorsed by Egypt
and several other Arab countries, or
will there be a national interim
authority there? Like Tony Blair's
proposal, for instance; this hasn't
been settled yet. That is why I believe
that these Arab countries have a bias
in their approach to resolving the
Palestinian issue. So, this bias among
these countries actually impacts the
pressure on Israel. So today, as Bang
Mustafa said, there are many casualties
and Israel keeps launching attacks on
Gaza, without any maximum effort from
the Arab countries, especially the
initiators.
>> So today, okay, let's trust Egypt.
Egypt has a way to resolve this, and I
am sure that it's impossible—even as
harsh as Egypt might be—that they
would allow Palestine to be crushed by
Israel. I don't believe that; surely
they will use their own methods. But
the problem today is that the reality
we see is that there haven't been any
concrete steps taken. For example, if
Egypt threatens Israel—this is an
example we can see in society—when
Israel enters the Philadelphia Corridor
, for instance.
>> Then Egypt says this is a red line for
us.
>> What does that mean? It means war. But
in reality, to Israel, whether it's a
red line, yellow line, or pink line,
they just don't care, that's my
interpretation. So they just go ahead
and keep crushing Gaza now. So the
Philadelphia Corridor or Salahuddin
route, Israel has no business with that
. Therefore, I see, just like Mr.
Mustafa said, that the position of Arab
countries today is very, very weak.
That is why the efforts being made are
indeed the efforts of the weak, trying
to create a more elegant way to achieve
this peace. But the problem today is
that there is nothing yet, nothing
visible that makes us feel relieved,
that makes us happy and say, "Oh, thank
God, there is progress." There are no
protests everywhere yet to show that
support has stopped because peace has
been achieved. But the reality is not
as expected, and then we also see, for
example, the issues between the Arab
world and the Emirates that are also in
conflict.
>> And this also drains the country's
energy to be more united in solving the
problem. This is what has become the
problem today. That's why I think the
most appropriate step is how negotiator
countries, or Indonesia, can knock on
the door again and ask, "What is next
for us now?"
>> What can we do? Are we just going to
stop here?
>> Huh.
>> Without any movements that could be
more effective, for example, or how
about the situation with Venezuela now?
The world has really turned upside down
, has it not? So, the themes that used
to make the Palestinian topic a global
icon that could move the whole world...
Now it has shifted to Venezuela, so
today it feels a bit, let's say,
deflated. Deflated, like a flat tire,
as they say. This is roughly my
perspective on the matter. Doctor, how
big is the influence of this shift in
priorities among the generation of
leaders in Arab countries regarding the
Palestinian issue? And as mentioned
earlier, many Arab countries are
focused on economic development and
energy transition. They are even more
worried about their own internal
security threats. Right. Does that have
a significant influence?
>> Oh, a very, very big influence. Because
my view is that, and perhaps others can
add to this, secularism and political
Islam cannot be separated in the Arab
world. Now, Hamas is, after all, part
of the big umbrella of the Muslim
Brotherhood.
>> And that has become forbidden goods in
Arab countries. Especially after Egypt
overthrew Morsi, for instance. Now,
these are the remnants, the painful or
frightening remnants for Arab leaders
that cannot be separated. Isn't that
right? Is it? So...
>> I see that there are new economic
priorities and so on. But states also
view this from humanitarian aspects.
That is why Egypt emphasizes that the
governing council should be held by
people from the Palestinian Authority,
for example, and not by Hamas. This
rivalry and the issue of the Muslim
Brotherhood have become a new problem
for the state. For example, in Saudi
Arabia, members of the Brotherhood were
arrested, then in Jordan they were
suppressed, and the same happened in
Egypt. So, we cannot ignore that the
root of all this is the suspicion, fear
, and worry that Arab countries have
regarding these movements. Moreover,
the current situation in Syria cannot
be separated from these Muslim
Brotherhood networks either. So I see
that domestic security priorities are a
major concern for Arab countries, which
is why I don't think they are fully
maximizing their efforts to pressure
America. For example, take how the Emir
of Qatar gave a gift to Trump—a very
modern aircraft worth 800T.
>> Without any conditions.
>> The plane, it's all about domestic
security.
>> They don't prioritize Palestine; take
Saudi Arabia for example, they signed
investments in America worth around 1
trillion dollars, so there's no "okay,
here's the investment, but pressure
Israel."
>> There's nothing, no clause, okay,
nothing in writing. But it could have
been discussed, you know? "Trump, I'll
invest in America, but in return, we
want immediate peace or immediate
independence for Palestine"—that is
what's missing. It’s different from
the countries that support Israel; I am
more focused on that. AIPAC is more
focused on defending Palestine.
>> Yes.
>> Defending Israel—a second example,
take the person named, what was it,
Bandar bin Sultan, I think, the former
Saudi Ambassador to the United States.
>> Huh.
>> He was very close to George Bush—Bush
Jr., the one who invaded Iraq—he
could just show up at his house and say
, "I'll cook at your place," that’s
how close they were.
>> Yes, yes, yes.
>> But he couldn't whisper, "Please let
Palestine be independent"—he couldn't
bring himself to say it. Now, it's
different with them. They are more
systematic in championing Israeli
issues. That's it. Alright. Alright.
Moving on, I will return to Mr. Mustafa
. Before we go to a break, looking at
some of the Arab political elites, is
it true that Palestine is no longer an
existential issue, but rather just one
of many regional issues, or regarding
the deployment of peacekeepers or
disarmament, how do the Arab states
respond to that, in your opinion, sir?
>> Yes. Uh. Certainly, there is a shifting
priority regarding the Palestinian
issue for current Arab leaders; it is
indeed different from the previous
generation.
>> Now, why is this happening? It is
because of a leadership transition in
the Arab world, where many major Arab
countries are now held by young leaders
, such as in Saudi Arabia with MBS.
>> Uh, Mohammed bin Zayed, and then in
Qatar, there is Sheikh Tamim.
>> Then in the United Arab Emirates, there
is also MBZ. And then in Jordan, it
happened even earlier with King
Abdullah II. So there is a change in
leadership to younger ones, whose way
of thinking is different. H
>> In viewing the Palestinian issue and
Arab world issues in general, they are
more pragmatic, more realistic, more
compromising, and more visionary
regarding their own countries.
Therefore, they tend to prioritize
their national interests. For example,
in Saudi Arabia, Crown Prince MBS is
busy with his Saudi Vision 2030. For
instance, the United Arab Emirates also
has a UAE Vision 2030. In Oman as well,
I just visited Oman earlier this
December. They also have an Oman Vision
2045, and they are very enthusiastic,
very concerned, and very busy
diversifying their economic sources.
They understand that they can no longer
depend on gas and oil, which will
eventually run out. So now they are
accelerating the diversification of
their economic sources, such as
agriculture, fisheries, investment, and
property. They all want to emulate
Dubai. Dubai has been extraordinarily
successful in diversifying its economy.
Dubai is a region that does not have
very large oil and gas resources. But
it has now become a pioneer in modern
development in the Arab world,
especially for all the young nations in
the Gulf Arab states. These Gulf Arab
states, if we talk about the Arab world
today, there is a change, a shift in
the landscape. The center of the Arab
world today consists of the Gulf Arab
states, wealthy Arab nations like Saudi
Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain
, and Oman; they are now the hubs of
economy, politics, and education. So,
if we talk about the Arab world today,
it is no longer Cairo, no longer
Damascus, no longer Baghdad. Yes, that
was back in the 60s, 50s, 70s, but now
the centers are Riyadh, Abu Dhabi,
Dubai, and Doha; those are the hubs.
Now, everything is there. Even
political initiatives are already
emerging from the Arab world. That is
why Qatar is now stepping up. Saudi
Arabia as well. Political decisions are
now being made there. That is why,
speaking of these shifts, there is
indeed a significant one due to the
birth or emergence of these young
leaders whose mindsets are different
and have changed from previous
generations. However, it does not mean
that Palestine is just left behind;
they still have concerns and
commitments. The proof is that Saudi
Arabia still refuses to join the
Abraham Accords, still requiring that
they will only join the Abraham Accords
if Israel recognizes the state of
Palestine. That MBS, until now, still
means there's still, well, still okay,
Qatar, yes, Qatar, as Dr. Sabini said
earlier, citing Burno, that the one
sincerely supporting Palestine is Qatar
, he said, right. Qatar, with its young
leader, Sheikh Tamim, is extraordinary,
he's still in his 40s, that Sheikh
Tamim of Qatar, right. So, there is
still, there is still, I am still
optimistic, still optimistic, meaning
this Palestine solution, even though
there's what you call it, a large-scale
conflict.
>> I am still optimistic that the solution
for the Palestinian state is in the
hands of
>> the leaders of the Gulf Arab states,
namely MBS and Sheikh Tamim, right.
>> Except for Abu Dhabi, I am a bit, well,
for Abu Dhabi, I am a bit hesitant.
>> A bit hesitant, yes.
>> It's a bit, it's hard for me to say.
>> It's different, right.
>> Yes, it's hard for me to mention it, at
least for now, but for MBS I am
confident, for Tamim it's okay.
>> Okay, that's okay. For Bahrain, I don't
have, I don't have, but the center of
the Gulf Arab states is Qatar, right.
And Saudi Arabia, yes. If it's Saudi
Arabia, that's why what Israel is
targeting is Saudi Arabia. If Saudi
Arabia goes, everything will be gone
like the domino theory, everything will
be finished. Because Saudi Arabia
remains firm, I still have a sense of
optimism regarding what you call it,
Palestine, because what you call it,
America and Israel are trying to invite
Saudi Arabia to join the Abraham
Accords by any means necessary.
>> Hmm. First, it was Gaza, right. When
Trump took office, what you call it. He
had already offered Saudi Arabia that
the Gaza conflict would immediately
stop, provided Saudi Arabia was willing
to recognize the state of Israel. They
refused. They remained firm that Israel
must recognize the Palestinian state.
After failing to trade Gaza with Saudi
Arabia, Israel attacked Iran, right. I
mean, America and Israel attacked Iran.
That 12-day war.
>> That was actually, right.
>> An intermediate goal, an intermediate
goal, if Iran could be defeated, then
Saudi Arabia would be intimidated.
>> Huh.
>> They would be intimidated and Saudi
Arabia's position would shake.
>> Yes.
>> But it turned out that Iran was able to
fight back. It was unexpected, it was
unexpected that Iran could fight back,
being the only country that could
attack Tel Aviv and all, it was beyond
expectations too, right.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> That is what made Saudi Arabia, what do
you call it? Stand firm again, right.
So, actually, America and Israel's goal
was to subdue Saudi Arabia so that they
would be willing to make peace with
Israel. But through this, through
Tehran, so to speak, through Iran it
failed, through Gaza it failed, so
everything failed.
>> Right.
>> Everything failed, finally, because it
was deadlocked here, the Arab peace
proposal emerged, the 20-point Trump
plan, which then gave birth to
resolution 1083, it got complicated,
Sir.
>> Yes, they are already playing like
chess. So the Iran war was not purely
Iran-Israel. There is an intermediate
goal there.
>> You know.
>> There is an even bigger thing here,
it's about subduing them; if they are
subdued, then Riyadh would be difficult
, the stance would be difficult. So
>> can that also be seen from the
improving relations between Tehran and
Riyadh, right?
>> In certain cases, Iran and Riyadh can
share the same interests, Sir.
>> You know. So indeed, there is what they
call politics; there are no eternal
friends, no eternal enemies.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> In one case they can be enemies, but in
another, they can be friends. When the
situation is like this, Saudi Arabia's
interest is that Iran should not lose,
you see. They must be able to fight
Israel. Because if Iran loses,
>> that means Israel, what is it? Saudi
Arabia standing alone would be
difficult, you know.
>> Yes. Yes. That is why, because they
failed to subdue Iran—the US and Iran
—Saudi Arabia is still holding firm
until now.
>> And then finally now it has changed,
the concept, the landscape has changed
after the emergence of UN Resolution
1803.
>> That, Sir, I think, wait a moment.
>> Alright. Alright, Mr. Mustafa. Brothers
and sisters who are blessed by Allah
Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. Currently, you are
listening to the program "Open Your
Eyes, Open Your Ears: Arab Countries'
Politics in Resolving the Palestinian
Issue" with our guest speaker, Dr.
Sarbini Abdul Murad, and also our guest
speaker, Mr. Mustafa Abdul Rahman, a
senior Middle East observer and former
Kompas journalist for nearly 30 years.
And we will go to the listeners. Please
convey your comments or questions,
brothers and sisters, to the Rasil
WhatsApp number at 0811999720. We
already have one from Eyang Sri.
Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakatuh. May the Rasil crew and the
guest speakers always be in the mercy
and pleasure of Allah Subhanahu wa
Ta'ala. I would like to ask Mr. Mustafa
. Excuse me, Sir. Ceasefire. But
Zionist Israel continues to massacre
the citizens of Gaza. It keeps going,
and many are also silent. The question
is, how do Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu
actually get what they want fulfilled
even if it violates international law?
Even any law is broken, they don't care
. And the world, we can actually say,
is also silent again now. May Palestine
soon be independent. That is all. Thank
you. Alright, perhaps you can respond
directly, Mr. Mustafa.
>> Yes, thank you. As I mentioned at the
beginning, the ceasefire in Gaza
reached on October 10, 2025, if you
call it a ceasefire that is 100%
realized, it is not really, right? So,
that is why observers often question
whether Israel accepts the ceasefire in
accordance with UN Resolution 1803
wholeheartedly. Because if you look at
the facts on the ground, it is indeed
not in accordance, because almost every
day Israel carries out attacks in Gaza.
Almost every day, the Palestinian
people become victims, either killed or
wounded. As I mentioned earlier, since
the agreement was reached in Gaza on
October 10, 2025, the death toll of
Palestinians has now reached 439. e
October 10th to now, November, December
, January, it's about 3 months, right?
3 months, 90 days. So if you calculate,
uh, 3 months (90 days), the casualties
are already 400. Every day, just
imagine, it could be more than 10,
maybe, uh, 15, nearly 15 per day if you
calculate it, yeah. That's the number
of deaths, not including the injured.
Those injured are more than 1,000,
that's only in 3 months or so. That
means if you divide it by day, it could
reach how many? That's tens per day,
right? So the casualties are high. That
is why, is this a real ceasefire or not
?
>> Because every day attacks like this
continue, but the international
community already considers this, uh, a
ceasefire compared to before, right?
Compared to before, right? Okay, let's
say we reject the facts on the ground
in Gaza, especially, well, the Arab
nations, as we said earlier, are in a
position that is not strong, in a very
weak position. Uh, the international
community is also the same, right? Uh,
yeah, we see what Trump did in
Venezuela, for example, the other day,
what did the international community do
? It just happens as they please, right
? But this, well, if we call it better
than, uh, before, right? We hope it
will be better in the future. Returning
to the issue mentioned by Dr. Sarbini
earlier, this second phase is indeed
the most complicated phase. The first
phase, if it's already okay, it's
passed, right? The ceasefire, the
exchange, all settled. This phase, uh,
the points of the second phase are
indeed heavy, and they are currently
heavy and still being debated by
everyone, especially the issue of
disarming Hamas. Now, this is
complicated, right? Hamas is...
>> uh, still looking for a middle ground,
the middle ground is to just freeze
Hamas 'weapons, the heavy weapons.
>> Hamas would only be entitled to light
weapons.
>> Then this is related to what was
mentioned by Dr. Sarbini, the
international stability force that will
be sent to Gaza. This is still, uh,
being debated regarding its vision and
mission, right? Egypt, for example,
Egypt wants, and Turkey also wants the
force, uh, that will be sent to Gaza,
its mission to be peacekeeping like UN
forces in other countries. Egypt
refuses. If the mission is to disarm
Hamas, they refuse. Egypt doesn't want
to join. Turkey also doesn't want to
join. And Jordan as well. Everyone
refuses. No country wants to join if
the mission is to disarm Hamas.
>> Yes.
>> That is no longer a UN peacekeeping
mission. That would have veered off
course. Now, this is currently still,
uh, uh, being negotiated behind the
scenes to find a middle ground. Then
also the issue of, uh, the mission, uh,
of the peace council. Peace council,
because there is a council. that will
be formed and led by Trump, right,
that's what it is. Then many countries
also refused to join that Peace Council
. Finally, the middle ground is for
international figures to join. And what
is the mission? If it has sovereignty,
that would be colonization, so it would
be rejected. The mission must be clear,
whether it is superior or just a
supervisor. But the authority will be
held by the government, an authority
will be formed, you see. And the
mechanism for that is still being
debated by everyone. So it is indeed
quite complicated, this is quite
complex, and until the second phase is
finished, rebuilding Gaza is hard to
start.
>> Even though this is the core, Gaza is
currently uninhabitable.
>> It's winter now, and many are, you know
,
>> freezing; these things are immediate
needs to rebuild Gaza, it's an
emergency and a necessity, but if the
other things aren't finished, it can't
be done. This is indeed the most
complicated part.
>> The most complicated phase, you could
say.
>> If this can be passed,
>> wow, that would be extraordinary. It is
hoped that it will then jump to the
third phase mentioned earlier. As for
the third, let's not talk about that
yet, it's too far away; let's focus on
what's right in front of us, as even
this is incredibly complicated. So, for
Egypt, Turkey, and everyone else,
it’s even being questioned whether
there will be a second phase or not. Is
there any international commitment for
this second phase in Gaza? If it fails,
there will be war again, Sir, it can
flare up at any moment, and it's not
impossible, you know. Nothing is
impossible, if you look at how
complicated the negotiations are to
implement the second phase. We
certainly hope it succeeds so that the
recovery can be carried out. There must
be a middle ground for political issues
. Then, how will this Peace Council
mission find a middle ground? Then, if
there is a middle ground, perhaps many
countries will join the peacekeeping
force. Yeah.
>> So that the reconstruction of Gaza can
be realized immediately and we can move
on to the third phase, which is very
strategic in terms of talking about a
Palestinian state.
>> It is indeed complicated. We have to
admit it's complicated. Let's wait;
it's all still developing on the ground
, and I am sure there are
behind-the-scenes negotiations
happening in those dimly lit rooms. We
just watch the developments, and
hopefully, it won't suddenly fail, lead
to despair, and trigger a big war or
another genocide where the Palestinian
people become victims again.
>> We don't want that; we want this effort
to be successful. Alright, next we have
Mrs. Ani Candi Hudaifah. Bismillah.
Present and listening to BMBT on the
radio. There is also one from Mrs. Mani
in Bekasi. Peace be upon you, and
Allah's mercy and blessings.
Alhamdulillah, God willing, I always
listen to Rasil Radio broadcasts.
Jazakumullahu khairan kasiran to our
speaker this evening. Honestly, this
has been enlightening and insightful
for me. May all Rasil Radio staff be
granted health and blessings. Amin ya
Rabbal Alamin. Amin. Thank you, Mrs.
Man. We also have Mrs. Vina Santika in
Pamulang, Tangerang.
Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Listening to
the broadcast this evening. Meanwhile,
there is Mrs. Maryati from Sukabumi.
Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi
wabarakatuh. Listening from Sukabumi. I
am convinced, Dr. Sarbini, that
Palestine will be free and the Zionists
will surely fall. Free Palestine from
the river to the sea. Okay, mentioning
Dr. Ben's name. You are very confident,
Mrs. Maryati, that Palestine will be
free and the Zionists will surely fall.
What is Dr. Ben's response?
>> Yes, as Brother Safa said earlier,
sooner or later, it will be independent
. However, this phase must be endured,
and we must build optimism that victory
will come; it is the only nation yet to
be free that participated in the
Asian-African Conference, and God
willing, it will be free. I am also
confident, Ma'am, that it will be
realized; it is just a matter of time
and our struggle to achieve it. Meaning
, if we are lazy in our struggle, it
will surely take longer. If we are
united, as Brother Safa said, it will
happen much faster. Alright, next is
Mrs. Tini. Assalamu'alaikum
warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, Mr. Mustafa
Abdurrahman and Dr. Ben. Honestly, I
often feel grief lately when hearing
about Palestine and the chaos currently
happening in Iran. Because, in my
opinion, Iran is one of the countries
capable of helping Palestine. I would
like to ask, is it true that inside
Iran, they are being pressured and
destabilized to cause their collapse? I
would appreciate some insight. Alright,
let's go to Mr. Mustafa. What do you
think, Sir?
>> That is correct, Sir. Correct. Yes, so
the concept of the recent
Israel-America war against Iran over
those 12 days, what should I call it?
Its grand agenda was to topple the
Iranian regime. Toppling the Iranian
regime, that is clear, Sir. Toppling it
. But, there was a miscalculation; it
turned out Iran has significant
military power and is capable of
fighting back, right? Ultimately, Trump
took the initiative to immediately seek
a ceasefire. Because if this war were
prolonged, Israel would be finished;
they would be overwhelmed. Because if
they are attacked almost every day by
those hypersonic missiles, many of
Iran's hypersonic missiles get through
and cannot be intercepted by the Iron
Dome or Israel's very sophisticated air
defense systems. The proof is in the
fact that Israel forbids exposing the
targets hit by Iranian missiles, Sir.
Actually, the destruction in Israel is
extraordinary—in Haifa, Eilat, and
other spots; their precision is truly
sophisticated. That is, if Israel were
willing to be open and truly fair about
it. Wow, it could be, it could be
psychologically finished, it could be
wiped out later, right. That's why
Trump wants and Israel wants to make
peace, to have a ceasefire. If Israel
had been superior yesterday, truly
superior, Israel wouldn't want a
ceasefire like in Gaza, which lasted
for 2 years, right. Because, uh, it
appears Iran has the capability to
perform, what do you call it,
resistance. Finally, Israel, uh,
accepted the ceasefire. But Israel
still hasn't abandoned its grand agenda
. Even though it is not through the
military. Now, it's through meddling
from the inside, as the person who
asked earlier said, right. So now it's
clear, Mossad and CIA are playing in
Iran right now, they are playing, and
indeed Iran's weakness is in
intelligence, Sir. Iran is weak in
intelligence. So it is indeed easy,
look at how many Iranian scientists
have been killed, how many high-ranking
Iranian military officers have been
killed. That is because their
intelligence is indeed weak. So, uh,
compared to Mossad, wow, Mossad is
already running rampant in the city of
Tehran, where they have, what do you
call it, uh, gained, uh, taken control,
you know. Already taken control. So it
is clear that what is happening in Iran
now is, uh, a game or, uh, is part of
Israel and America's agenda to topple,
uh, what do you call it, the regime.
Now the question is, will this succeed
or not? Well, if it doesn't succeed, a
war could break out again, open again
between Iran and Israel. This Iran and
Israel, this is the biggest one now,
the archenemies. That's right, isn't it
. Iran, Israel views Iran as an
archenemy, the biggest enemy, the one
most feared by Israel in the Middle
East, and yes, Iran is consistent,
right. Then, uh, what is happening now
is, uh, taking advantage of Iran's
economic weakness, yes. Indeed, Iran is
also economically weak because of the
embargo for almost 40 years from, uh,
Western countries, so of course the
influence is also great, right. So, it
is easier to meddle, so what is
happening in Iran does not stand alone.
Mossad and the CIA are playing there.
That's it, Sir.
>> Alright, Doctor Ben. Do you have any
additions, Doc, regarding this Iran, if
for instance it falls, what would
happen? And also, uh, what are their
actual characteristics when they are
attacked by other countries?
>> Yes, it's not the same as what Bang
Mustafa said earlier, that, uh, Iranian
intelligence is indeed weak in this
regard, so Mossad can, what, push Iran
around, yes. Because we indeed see that
inside Iran there is polarization, yes,
extraordinary societal polarization,
the public is dissatisfied with the
current regime, not to mention former
Iranian elements also playing, and the
opposition who are disappointed, so
there are many
>> many segments that can be used by
Israel to become, uh, their agents, for
example, it's different, for example,
when Iran tries to manage its
intelligence in Israel, it is more
difficult because they are indeed more
solid. So, as Mr. Mustafa said earlier,
there have indeed been failed attempts
by Israel to topple Ali Khamenei
through military and other means. So,
the attempt to destroy Iran's currency
is just like what happened to Mossadegh
, the pro-people Iranian prime minister
in 1953 who was ousted in the same way,
but remember that Iran is not Venezuela
. This must be remembered by everyone.
It’s different. So it's not that easy
to conquer Iran. Iran is an ancient
nation. So Iran's arrogance is like, "
I've been here for thousands of years,
what are you?" Well, that's the
language; there is a high sense of
self-confidence in Iran regarding this.
And indeed, according to research,
Persians are the smartest people in the
world, right? So there are many things
that support Iran, which makes it more
confident. I am sure that these
demonstrations can be localized by the
Iranian government, and I am sure that
Iran will be better prepared to face
this; this isn't the first demo, Mas
Angga, there have been many, this is no
big deal. Yes, they’ve been dealing
with this for a long time, right?
>> They have been prepared for a long time
.
>> Up to that point, Mas Angga.
>> Alright, we have Mr. Baron in the
corner of South Tangerang listening in
tonight. Okay, thank you, Mr. Baron,
this Betawi guy. Next, we have Mr.
Muhammad, Mr. Muhammad Maulid Arwin. My
apologies. Assalamu'alaikum
warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Thank you
for the information. I hope the
resource person, the Rasil da'wah
fighters, and all Radio Rasil listeners
are always in good health. Mr. Mustafa,
could you please provide information
regarding UN resolution number 180 or
2803? Does every resolution have an
expiration date? How exactly does this
resolution serve as a concrete step to
defend Palestine? Requesting a response
from the speaker. Thank you.
>> Right,
>> thank you. There is no expiration date.
>> None at all?
>> None, all UN resolutions remain, once
issued they continue to exist.
>> Always in effect.
>> They remain valid. It just depends on
whether the parties involved want to
implement them or not. None. For
example, there are well-known
resolutions related to Palestine,
namely UN Security Council resolutions
number 338
>> and 242. 242 was issued after the '67
war, asking Israel to withdraw
>> from the territories occupied by force,
namely the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
. Even until now,
>> there is no such thing as an expiration
. It’s just that Israel does not
implement those UN resolutions.
>> There is no such term as a UN
resolution expiring; they remain in
effect. That is why now
>> there are so many, right, Mr. Mustafa?
>> Many, and they've never been followed;
they're just piling up, gosh.
>> They are never obeyed, Sir.
>> They are never obeyed, Israel is the
most defiant against
>> UN resolutions. Because UN resolutions
have always been unfavorable to Israel
from the start.
>> The issue of, what is it called? The
Palestinian right of return under UN
Resolution 194 exists, but it’s never
been respected, and when we talk about
resistance, it eventually becomes a
matter of power dynamics. Now, Israel
might accept UN Resolution 180 because
of the Trump factor and the US
involvement.
>> Right?
>> This resolution is inspired by or based
on Trump's 20-point proposal. That is
why we must remain united
internationally, both now and in the
future. The international community—
Europe, China, Russia, Canada,
Australia—is now united in pushing
for the full implementation of UN
Resolution 180.
>> It must be consistent and comprehensive
; nothing should be left out. If we
want to be consistent, then let’s not
cut anything out. It must be
implemented entirely from A to Z.
>> Whatever difficulties arise are normal;
just like this second phase, the
challenges are extraordinary. If we can
overcome this, I see it as a test we
need to pass. If we can get past this,
the doors will finally open. The second
phase is the real test.
>> This involves forming a peacekeeping
force, a Peace Council, and ensuring
the Palestinian Authority is fully
disarmed and secure. Recently,
President Sisi offered a middle-ground
solution to Trump, sending a message
through MBS. Back when MBS visited
Washington last October.
>> Sisi requested that Hamas be willing to
disarm. Hamas's condition for disarming
is as follows. They will only disarm
and hand over their weapons to a
Palestinian national army formed after
the state is established.
>> A national Palestinian army formed only
after independence. Sisi is trying to
find a middle ground by asking Trump to
accelerate the timeline for
negotiations on establishing a
Palestinian state. Because right now
it's still vague and unclear, and
people even doubt if it’s genuine or
just a PR stunt—they fear it isn't
serious. So, Sisi asked for a clear
timeline for the negotiations,
regardless of whether they succeed or
not—the important thing is to start.
If there is a clear timeline or a
big-picture plan, Egypt might persuade
Hamas to disarm, as it would be linked
to statehood negotiations. So, there
are efforts to find a compromise. It's
just that, so far, there hasn't been a
meeting of minds or a formal agreement.
It’s still ongoing, and there is
extraordinary dynamic pressure during
this second phase, Sir. That’s all,
Sir. Thank you. Alright, we will move
to the final question from our listener
. We have Mr. Ahmad in Bogor. Peace be
upon you, and may the mercy and
blessings of Allah be upon you. I
believe the Palestinian issue is also
often used as a tool for geopolitical
rivalry. However, I was surprised
earlier, Iran versus Saudi Arabia, it's
actually been up and down. Then I
remembered what Dr. Ben said about the
axis of resistance. Well, versus the
pro-Western bloc. So, among Arab
countries, there are those that support
Palestine, often factional in
supporting Hamas or supporting Fatah.
How does Dr. Ben see it when the
internal Palestinian situation is
difficult to resolve due to that
factional external intervention? Thank
you. Alright, Doctor. How is this? Uh,
yes, understood from Bogor. Actually,
these Arab countries support Palestine,
not in the context of supporting Hamas,
that's different. Two different things.
They support Palestine in a
humanitarian context, nothing more than
that.
>> Still, for Europeans, Hamas is
considered an organization included in
the terrorist list, even Spain, which
insists on defending Palestine, also
considers Hamas part of the terrorist
list. Now, therefore,
>> indeed, in this context, we must see
that the most important thing is that
Europe supports Palestine.
>> The issue of them blacklisting
organizations they don't like within
Palestine is a separate matter. What's
important is diplomatic support first;
for instance, the UK, Canada, or France
, these are matters showing progress.
This is embarrassing for Israel.
Therefore, it's important that this
proceeds first, then we must encourage
European countries specifically to be
able to approach Israel. Then
collectively, so that there is a
solution, a two-state solution that can
work well, so the peace process in
Palestine does not drag on. Now, this
is what I think is the foundation, that
today the most important thing for
Palestine is to stop the attacks and
then immediately carry out the
reconstruction of Gaza. This is truly
the most important thing so that the
international community takes more
measured steps in this regard. I think
that's it. Alright, Dr. Ben and also
Mr. Mustafa. We are limited by time,
it's even past 9:30 PM.
>> That was the question earlier. The last
question we can answer. My brothers and
sisters, please forgive us if there
were questions that could not be
answered tonight. As a closing, I will
go to Mr. Mustafa first. Mr. Mustafa,
as a closing to our entire discussion
on tonight's topic, what would you like
to remind the listeners? Yes, we must
be united. Because this Palestinian
issue is currently in a very sensitive
phase that could succeed or fail.
>> If it fails, we regress, and there
could be war again. But if it succeeds,
it could give birth to a Palestinian
state. And I still have optimism. The
current resolution concept, namely the
UN Security Council Resolution 1803,
can bring, can realize the dream of the
Palestinian people, which is the
establishment of a Palestinian state.
As long as we are all united, from the
Palestinian people, the Arab nations,
and the Muslim community, including
those of us in Indonesia. Yes.
>> We must continue to be committed to
uniting and keep fueling the spirit to
support Palestine until their dream is
realized. All right.
>> All right, Mr. Mustofa. Thank you, Dr.
Ben, any closing remarks from you? Yes.
I want to say, as I always say, please
work maximally to invite Arab countries
, European countries, or knock on
America's door so that this Palestinian
crisis ends quickly. That is what I say
on every occasion, that please, Mr.
Sugiono, do your best to play a more
maximum role in this. I believe that
Indonesia, as a Muslim-majority country
with good political influence, can find
a middle ground to resolve the
Palestinian issue. I think that's it,
Mas Angga.
>> All right, Dr. Ben, thank you very much
, and Mr. Mustafa, thank you very much
for joining us tonight on "Buka Mata,
Buka Telinga." May Mr. Mustafa always
be healthy. God willing, we will meet
again next time, and Dr. Ben, thank you
very much, Dr. Ben. God willing, we
will meet again in the following weeks,
yes. Thus, viewers, may you be blessed
by Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala. Our
program tonight, "Buka Mata, Buka
Telinga." Hopefully, what has been
conveyed by our guests can provide
benefits to us all. We apologize for
any mistakes in our words, we take our
leave. Billahi taufik wal hidayah.
Subhanakallahumma wabihamdika asyhadu
alla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa
atubu ilaik. Wassalamu’alaikum
warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
>> Wa'alaikumussalam.