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0:02 Yes, here is Abi Agus, our teacher. 0:04 Then there is also Fatan Qolbi, an 0:07 NTT-Betawi. And then there is Neza. 0:10 Hello Neza, thank you for tinkering 0:13 with the camera so this show can be 0:16 broadcast. I am currently at UTA, 0:19 Universitas 17 Agustus 45, in Sunter. 0:23 The chairman of the foundation is Mr. 0:25 Bambang Sulistomo. He is over 70 years 0:29 old. 0:30 Freedom. 0:31 Freedom. He is very patient with me. 0:34 Peace be upon you, Mr. Bambang. 0:36 And peace be upon you too. 0:37 I’ll just call you "Mas"(older 0:38 brother), okay? 0:38 Because you still look young. 0:40 Yes. 0:40 It seems so. 0:42 You know, we used to meet at UI, in the 0:44 Literature Garden. Mas Bambang, as the 0:51 second child 0:53 of Bung Tomo, right? 0:54 Yes. 0:55 I call him Bung Tom so people catch on 0:58 immediately. 0:58 Okay. Okay. 1:00 The first ones were girls, Mas Bambang, 1:03 all girls, right? 1:06 What is your most memorable memory of 1:07 your father? Well, sometimes I feel 1:12 like I'm looking at my father's figure 1:18 because all of us children were very 1:20 close to him. 1:21 Oh, you were close, then? 1:22 Very close. My father would even often 1:24 joke around, chat, and tell stories, 1:27 ranging from funny ones to scary ones, 1:29 and even political ones. 1:31 Hmm. 1:31 My father was an open person. So I feel 1:35 my father was truly an educator. 1:40 As a parent, he didn't just forbid this 1:43 or that. As a parent, he didn't just 1:46 order this or that, but he also 1:48 provided explanations 1:50 and understanding about social life and 1:53 the life of the nation. So that insight 1:58 is what I find interesting, because not 2:01 everyone is willing to teach about 2:03 national awareness, for example, like 2:06 my father did. So he 2:09 he tried to encourage his children to 2:12 talk about everything. And secondly, my 2:16 father wanted us all to get an 2:17 education 2:18 hmm 2:19 with all the sacrifices made to get 2:21 what? To get school fees, right? 2:24 Honestly, my father, well at the time, 2:29 he didn't work, he only got his pension 2:31 and whatever else, that was just how he 2:33 was. 2:34 Your father wasn't a civil servant, was 2:35 he? 2:36 No. So my father even tried raising 2:39 chickens 2:40 Hm. 2:41 selling chicken eggs 2:42 sold to the neighbors. That's right. So 2:45 , my father raised about 50 chickens, 2:48 and every day there were eggs, up to a 2:50 kilo or a kilo and a half, taken to the 2:53 neighbors, delivered and sold by my 2:56 mother. So, 2:59 so even my mother, when she had to 3:01 prepare school uniforms for her 3:03 children, she sewed them herself. 3:06 Hm. 3:07 And my father was perfectly fine with 3:08 that. So we bought fabric, sewed it 3:10 ourselves, until I went to school, my 3:13 school back then was Perguruan Cikini. 3:15 Hm. 3:15 It was a posh school. 3:17 Yes. 3:18 They asked me, "Bang, where is your 3:20 uniform from?" Ah, why is my uniform 3:24 stitched differently? Because there 3:28 were no pockets, no zippers, just tied 3:30 like that. Then this is a new model. 3:34 Yes. My mother bought this in Malang. 3:38 Even though it was my mother's own 3:39 handiwork, it ended up like that. So my 3:41 father didn't encourage us to chase 3:44 money or anything. 3:47 Just living simply, that's what Father 3:49 taught us from the start. Back then, 3:52 you went to elementary school at Cahaya 3:54 Patria. 3:55 Cahaya Patria on Tengku Umar, right? 3:56 It's still there now. 3:57 That's right. 3:58 Yes. That was it, we moved to Jalan 4:01 Bojonegoro, near that road behind 4:03 Megaria, there was a school there, but 4:05 I don't know if it's still there or not 4:07 . 4:08 Back then, that school was run by the 4:11 Ministry of Information. 4:13 Mr. Haryoto, Mrs. Lis Haryoto, who was 4:15 famous as a women's figure. 4:17 Their house was in Cikini. 4:18 Yeah. 4:19 I don't know if it's still there or not 4:21 . But I think it might be difficult to 4:24 tell now. 4:26 Your middle school was SMP Percik, 4:27 right? 4:28 Yes. And for high school, it was SMA 3. 4:31 Yes, SMA 3. Yeah. 4:32 SMA 3 has produced a lot of famous 4:34 people from SMP and SMA 3. 4:36 Right. You hung out with 4:37 many singers there. 4:38 Yes. With famous people, really. 4:40 Like Addie MS and Vidi. Ah, that was my 4:43 batch. My batch was mostly athletes. 4:47 Mr. Adaksa was also from SMA 3, right? 4:52 And then you went to FISIP, right? Yeah 4:55 . 4:55 Now, when Bung Tomo mobilized people on 4:58 November 10, '45, 4:59 Yeah. 5:01 in whose name or under what flag did so 5:03 many people join to shout that out? 5:07 Right? Did your father 5:08 act on behalf of any organization? 5:09 That? Well, my father happened to be a 5:13 journalist. 5:15 Hmm. 5:16 He was a journalist for the Japanese 5:18 news agency Domei, which is like Antara 5:19 now. 5:21 My father always had to collect news 5:23 sources. H 5:25 from various sources, you know. So, he 5:29 would visit political figures, leaders 5:31 from NU, Muhammadiyah, and the active 5:34 youth there as sources before 5:36 interviewing them for the news agency. 5:40 Eventually, he became known to many 5:41 people. 5:43 Secondly, my father was a scout member. 5:45 Hmm. 5:46 Back then, they were called "Pandu". 5:49 Scouts. 5:50 He was part of the KBI, the Indonesian 5:53 National Scouting movement. KBI was a 5:55 scouting group with a nationalist 5:57 foundation. 5:58 Hmm. 5:59 There were also Islamic-based ones, you 6:00 know. But his was the nationalist one, 6:05 and Father reached the first-level 6:08 scout rank. 6:10 Yeah. In Indonesia, there were only 6:12 three first-level scouts. Garuda-class 6:14 scouts, they called them. 6:16 Father was a scout. So Father had 6:18 friends who were scouting activists, 6:21 social activists, and so on. That's 6:24 where Father got to know many people. 6:26 Then, when the Dutch were about to 6:29 enter, since the Japanese had lost... 6:32 Yeah. 6:34 And then there was a threat from those 6:39 outside the Japanese wanting to take 6:41 our country and colonize it again. 6:43 Yeah. 6:44 Well, naturally, nobody wanted that. 6:45 Yeah. 6:45 Yeah, nobody wanted it. Then came the 6:48 tearing of the flag. 6:50 Yeah. 6:51 And the resolution of jihad from our 6:53 friends in Surabaya. 6:54 That was at what hotel, exactly? 6:55 At the Orange Hotel. 6:57 What is the name of the hotel now? 7:00 Ah, 7:01 isn't it Ilmi? It’s quite famous in 7:04 Surabaya. 7:06 Then, my father saw how people wanted 7:09 to change the red, white, and blue flag 7:12 . The blue part was ripped off, the 7:16 Dutch got angry, they fought, and 7:18 people died. So, my father led the 7:21 people there. 7:22 Hm. 7:23 Yes, he led them in singing the 7:25 Indonesia Raya anthem. And then, he saw 7:28 that this spirit must not be 7:30 extinguished, because many people 7:32 wanted the Dutch to come back. 7:35 Hm. 7:36 They followed the British because the 7:38 British brought them. The British 7:40 brought the Dutch, Father. But we 7:42 didn't have any weapons. The ones with 7:44 weapons were the Japanese. 7:46 Hm. 7:46 So, movements began to seize weapons 7:48 from the Japanese. My father took part 7:52 in those movements, including 7:54 negotiating with the Japanese soldiers 7:56 to ask for their weapons, to the point 7:58 where the Japanese commander cried 8:01 while handing over his samurai sword, 8:03 because for the Japanese, that weapon 8:05 is highly valued, something sacred. 8:08 Sacred. 8:10 He cried handing over that sword, my 8:13 father accepted it, and well, those 8:15 weapons were plentiful; at one point, 8:17 when many had been collected, friends 8:20 in Jakarta—there was the 8:22 Investigating Committee for Preparatory 8:24 Work for Independence (BPUPKI)—the 8:26 figures included Adam Malik. 8:30 Yeah. 8:30 He called my father about this and that 8:32 . "Oh, goodness, we really have no 8:34 weapons." So my father went to Jakarta. 8:37 Yeah. 8:37 He met Mr. Adam Malik. 8:39 Yeah. 8:39 He met Mr. Adam Malik. Then he attended 8:41 the BPUPKI meetings. 8:44 Was he already the Foreign Minister 8:45 then? Not yet, right? Not yet anything, 8:47 right? He was still a member of the 8:48 militia. He happened to be a Domei 8:51 journalist in Jakarta. 8:53 Okay. 8:53 Domei news agency, Father. I was at the 8:55 Domei news agency in Surabaya. They met 8:57 . Then Mr. Adam Malik invited him to 8:59 the BPUPKI meeting. My father saw those 9:03 dozen or so figures debating the 9:05 formulation of the state. 9:08 My father even said this when they were 9:10 discussing that we wouldn't have any 9:12 money if we became independent. My 9:15 father told the story that at the 9:17 BPUPKI building in Pejambon, he even 9:19 took off his shirt. " 9:22 If we don't have money, please sell my 9:24 shirt for our independence." 9:27 Hm. 9:28 Not everyone has heard that story, but 9:31 it is known by, well, if they are still 9:33 alive, I think. So my father took off 9:36 his shirt and threw it down. "Why are 9:38 you afraid of independence?""This shirt 9:40 of mine can be sold." 9:42 Because they thought that independence 9:44 required money. "If there's no money, 9:45 we can't be independent," right? " 9:47 We can't establish a country." Okay. 9:49 Then my father returned to Surabaya, 9:52 and those Japanese weapons were sent. 9:54 Our weapons via train. 9:56 Yeah. 9:56 So, several train cars of weapons from 9:59 Surabaya were sent to Jakarta. Yeah. 10:01 So it was my friends who sent them. My 10:03 father was known as the person who 10:05 coordinated the resistance, including 10:08 also 10:09 Yes, from the police there was Mr. 10:11 Yasin, Mr. Abdul Arnowo, those figures. 10:15 My father was known as one of the 10:16 leaders of the militia. Yeah. 10:19 Finally, my father formed a militia. 10:20 Yeah. 10:23 After forming the militia, they thought 10:25 , "Wow, if we just form a militia, how 10:27 do we communicate?" Back then, there 10:29 were no cellphones, right? Back then 10:30 there were no, no radios. There were no 10:33 radios yet. But like this, 10:34 Okay, we'll make a radio broadcast. How 10:36 do we do it? 10:37 The Japanese had Japanese-made radios 10:40 in every district. 10:41 Yeah. 10:42 Which at certain times would broadcast 10:44 Japanese propaganda. 10:45 Yes. 10:46 They had those back then. 10:47 Hm. 10:47 Then my father said, "Well, the radio 10:49 is already there, we just need the 10:51 transmitter." So, he built the 10:52 transmitter with his friend named Mr. 10:54 Wahab. He was a radio expert who also 10:57 graduated from a Japanese school. 10:58 He built a radio transmitter. So it was 11:00 tested, and then it was broadcast, and 11:02 everyone heard it. "Whoa, where is this 11:05 broadcast coming from?" they asked. 11:08 It turned out RRI found out about it, 11:10 and at that time, RRI asked to be able 11:12 to relay it. 11:14 Yeah. 11:15 With that radio relay, my father 11:18 mobilized people so they could hear 11:20 everything. And so the resistance rose 11:23 up. 11:23 Yes, Father. Allahu Akbar. Who was it, 11:26 sir, that recorded that? 11:28 R? Yes, it wasn't RRI at first, just a 11:33 regular radio, but after RRI relayed it 11:36 , it became much bigger. That takbir 11:40 chant was indeed initially initiated by 11:43 my father. 11:44 So when RRI aired it, it grew even more 11:46 . 11:47 It turned out that the takbir chant was 11:49 heard all over Indonesia. MasyaAllah. 11:51 That was what rallied the people to 11:53 step forward and fight. What I can't 11:56 imagine is the people with sharpened 11:59 bamboo leaving, marching like that, and 12:01 then fighting against the Allied forces 12:04 . 12:05 Sharpened bamboo pointed like that, as 12:07 if to shoot—shoot with what? 12:09 Sharpened bamboo? Sometimes I can't 12:11 even fathom it. 12:12 How they had the courage. 12:13 It was God's intervention. 12:14 Yes, that's right, that's right. But if 12:16 they were carrying swords, machetes, or 12:18 spears, I think it would be 12:19 understandable, but using sharpened 12:21 bamboo? Yes, I think these are the 12:24 things that make me feel that my father 12:27 has a debt. 12:28 H. 12:29 My father has a debt to the republic 12:31 for inviting people to war. 12:33 Hm. 12:34 Inviting people to fall in battle. 12:36 Hm. So, my father has a debt to the 12:38 republic for calling people to war and 12:39 calling people to their deaths. Imagine 12:42 carrying sharpened bamboo; it wouldn't 12:44 stop bullets. They would surely be shot 12:46 and surely die. That's why 20,000 12:49 people died in Surabaya. 12:50 Oh, 20,000 people? 12:51 More than 20,000, that’s just the 12:53 known count. 12:53 Yeah. 12:54 And many of them are nameless heroes. 12:58 Hm. 12:59 Because it wasn't known who their 13:01 parents, aunts, or uncles were, they 13:03 were just buried like that. They didn't 13:06 use names, even those who were buried 13:08 in the hero's cemetery. Back then, the 13:10 hero's graves didn't use names either. 13:12 There are many now. 13:13 So my father felt guilty. Inviting 13:17 people to war, inviting people to fall. 13:19 Hm. 13:20 Now, that made my father often have 13:23 radical thoughts. 13:25 Hm. 13:26 And revolutionary in remembering that 13:28 struggle. And radical-revolutionary in 13:31 remembering that you shouldn't be 13:33 reckless. Your nation used to struggle. 13:35 Yeah. 13:36 To be independent, people fell and died 13:38 . Why are you acting so carelessly? My 13:40 father often said that. 13:41 Yeah. Yeah. 13:42 And that is what made me 13:43 and my father was at the forefront back 13:44 then, right. 13:45 Yes. Giving speeches while being chased 13:47 everywhere 13:47 I mean, if someone has a transmitter, 13:49 they’re bound to be hunted. Yeah. 13:52 Having a radio transmitter, it's 13:53 impossible not to be hunted. He was 13:54 always on the run. Finished 13:55 broadcasting here, moved to broadcast 13:56 again, always on the run 13:58 searching. Now, that made my father 14:01 feel, feel guilty. 14:03 Inviting people to war, inviting people 14:05 to die, but why is our situation still 14:07 like this. 14:08 Yeah. 14:09 Now, that 14:12 yeah. So Agus asked earlier, "Now, 14:13 why 14:14 does Mas Bambang see Indonesia now as 14:16 how? Remembering back then how Bung 14:18 Tomo’s struggle was?" Yes, so how 14:20 does the son of Bung Tomo see Indonesia 14:23 now? Well, 14:23 I’m just concerned. I’m concerned 14:25 that 14:26 in what aspect? Which part makes you 14:28 concerned? Concerned in terms of state 14:30 management, especially. 14:33 We once had a time before Bung Karno, 14:35 uh, with the 1945 Constitution, we 14:38 managed the country with a 14:40 parliamentary democracy system. 14:43 Every few months, uh, the parliament 14:45 would change, the prime minister would 14:47 change. Then Bung Karno issued the July 14:50 5th Decree, Bung Karno became president 14:52 . After that presidency, what year was 14:55 that? In '56 Bung Karno fell and was 14:58 replaced by the New Order, Mr. Harto, 15:01 right, Mr. Harto fell and was replaced 15:03 by reformation and so on. Now, this 15:07 makes me, uh, as a young person feel, 15:10 why is this country managed in a way 15:13 that doesn't align with the ideals of 15:16 independence. 15:17 Yeah. 15:18 The ideals of independence, which 15:20 ideals of independence? Well, they say 15:22 we have an ideology. Ideology is just 15:25 an idea. Idea comes from idea. Yeah. 15:27 Logy from science. Logos. So, the 15:31 science of goodness, of ideas, why 15:32 don't we practice it? 15:34 Yeah. 15:35 So the science of good ideas about our 15:37 country, why aren't we practicing it? 15:39 Why do we let the people act as they 15:41 please? 15:42 Yeah. 15:44 No, no, that’s not allowed, you can't 15:46 , you can't criticize, you can't say no 15:48 . Even though in the preamble of the 15:52 1945 Constitution, the preamble states 15:55 that the Republic of Indonesia was born 15:59 with people's sovereignty based on 16:01 divinity, humanity, nationality, and so 16:04 on, social justice. 16:07 So it means the state of the Republic 16:10 of Indonesia was born with people's 16:12 sovereignty based on Pancasila. It 16:14 means our foundation is people's 16:17 sovereignty. 16:17 Yeah. What does sovereign people 16:20 actually mean? Well, the people 16:23 shouldn't be forbidden if they want to 16:25 do good. Yeah. 16:27 The people shouldn't be forbidden from 16:29 speaking. The people shouldn't be 16:33 forbidden from choosing their political 16:35 interests or choosing their education. 16:39 The people shouldn't be restricted from 16:41 choosing decent jobs for themselves. 16:43 Right? 16:44 They shouldn't be restricted. That is 16:45 called people's sovereignty. But, can 16:48 the sovereign people just do whatever 16:50 they want? Well, not exactly. 16:54 Sovereign people must be based on 16:58 divinity, humanity, unity, sovereignty, 17:03 and justice, then ultimately based on 17:07 social justice. So the people can't 17:11 just act recklessly based on that. 17:14 So people's sovereignty is based on 17:16 that, making it impossible 17:18 it's impossible for the people to just 17:21 act as they please. 17:23 H 17:25 It's impossible to act selfishly when 17:27 based on those five principles. 17:31 Hm. 17:32 Yes. Unless there are no rules. Now, 17:34 where are those rules? The rules are in 17:37 the Preamble and the 1945 Constitution. 17:39 Hm. So if we implement those correctly, 17:42 people's sovereignty would definitely 17:44 govern this country properly. It would 17:47 govern correctly, unless there are no 17:49 rules at all. Now, that’s what makes 17:52 us feel, where are the rules now? Why 17:55 was Bung Karno in power and then 17:58 removed? Why was Pak Harto in power and 18:00 then removed? And then there was Pak 18:03 Habibie, Pak who? Gus Dur and so on. 18:07 Why is it like that? Yeah, so. It means 18:09 that we aren't managing this country 18:12 based on Pancasila. 18:14 Hm. 18:15 We are not managing this nation based 18:17 on people's sovereignty, based on 18:19 Pancasila. No. That is what I find 18:21 concerning. 18:22 Like that. 18:24 Mas Bambang, I want to ask about the 18:25 history of the TNI. Was Bung Tomo one 18:28 of the founders of the TNI, or what? 18:31 And did Bung Tomo know Pak Sudirman? 18:35 Yes. So, during the war to defend 18:39 independence in '45 18:43 my late father created a militia called 18:47 BPRI, the Indonesian People's Rebel 18:51 Army 18:52 and they were numerous and everywhere. 18:56 Then my father also did cadre 18:57 development 18:58 Yeah. 18:58 to form the BPRI militia, including a " 19:01 dare-to-die" front. H 19:03 People were selected who were truly 19:05 brave enough to die in battle. Now, 19:08 when the Allies entered our country 19:13 they invited our leaders to be 19:16 kidnapped, taken hostage, and displaced 19:19 , right? 19:21 Bung Karno, Hatta, Sjahrir 19:23 and those leaders were kidnapped and 19:25 held hostage. Now, Pak Dirman refused. 19:29 Hm. 19:30 Now, why? Because Pak Dirman had 19:33 created an organization called the TNI 19:35 in '47. 19:36 Hm. 19:38 Pak Dirman united those militias and 19:41 created the TNI. Pak Dirman was chosen 19:45 as the TNI commander. 19:47 Pak Urip Sumohardjo was deputy 19:49 commander. And there were several other 19:52 generals including Pak Suryadarma who 19:53 led the Air Force, right? 19:56 Pak Nasir the Navy. Then my father was 20:00 the coordinator, a TNI coordinator for 20:03 war affairs. 20:05 Hm. 20:07 So my father received the rank of Major 20:09 General. 20:09 Oh, Major General, right? 20:10 Major General, yes, Pak Dirman was a 20:12 General, sir. 20:13 If it were now, it wouldn't be Major 20:14 General. 20:15 Yeah, that rank doesn't exist anymore. 20:17 It’s a one-star rank. 20:18 One star. 20:19 But he was included, uh, as a TNI 20:21 leader, there’s a photo of it. There 20:24 were only seven people. Who were they? 20:27 Mr. Dirman, Mr. Urip, my father, sir. 20:30 There were several people. Then Mr. 20:32 Nasir. 20:32 Do you still have the photo? 20:33 Yes. There is a photo. That photo was 20:35 from the inauguration, inducted by Bung 20:38 Karno. 20:39 At the Yogyakarta Palace. So, my father 20:41 was a TNI leader in '47 back then. 20:43 Hm. 20:45 So if the TNI says it was born on 20:46 October 5th, that's wrong. 20:48 Yeah. 20:49 The TNI was born in June '47, if I'm 20:51 not mistaken. In June. 20:52 In June, and it was inaugurated by Bung 20:54 Karno. Now, so, uh, then later when the 20:59 leaders were captured by the Dutch and 21:03 displaced, my father also chose to go 21:07 into guerilla warfare with Mr. Dirman. 21:12 Mr. Dirman chose to go guerilla, 21:15 fighting the arrests everywhere. My 21:18 father also went guerilla. Now, after 21:21 the Round Table Conference, the Dutch 21:25 were declared illegitimate. 21:29 Yeah. 21:29 Right? Illegitimate. And the leaders 21:33 returned here, returned from their, 21:35 what do we call it, abduction or 21:37 something? And they returned, and then 21:40 went back to Yogyakarta. Then, Mr. 21:43 Dirman finished his guerilla campaign 21:44 and also returned to Yogyakarta. But 21:46 Mr. Dirman, it seems, was not willing 21:48 to be a TNI leader anymore. 21:50 So, my father joined him and was also 21:52 not willing. He stood in solidarity 21:54 with Mr. Dirman. 21:56 Okay. 21:56 Didn't want to be a TNI leader. So, my 21:57 father finally just finished his 21:59 service. 22:00 Hm. 22:00 Now, that’s the reason why, when my 22:03 father passed away, my mother was asked 22:05 , "Ma'am, what have you been receiving 22:06 all this time?""Receiving what?"" 22:08 Nothing at all?" Yeah. 22:09 Oh, it turned out Mr. Parjono Rustam, 22:11 as Mr. Dirman's secretary, 22:13 Yeah. 22:14 took care of the administrative 22:16 requirements for my father as a former 22:18 TNI officer. 22:19 Hm. 22:20 The administration at TNI Headquarters 22:22 at that time. Mr. Yusuf's people took 22:25 care of it. My mother received a 22:27 pension letter. A pension letter 22:30 stating that my mother's husband was a 22:32 former TNI leader. My mother received a 22:35 pension. 22:36 Hm. Until she passed away, yes. Yes. 22:38 A TNI pension. Initially, she got 22:40 nothing. But Mr. Parjono Rustam, as Mr. 22:43 Dirman's secretary at that time during 22:45 the struggle, secured that letter so my 22:50 mother received a TNI pension. So, even 22:54 though I'm just a soldier's son, I have 22:57 never used the military to act 22:59 arbitrarily. 23:01 I use the military to help the people. 23:03 Yeah. 23:04 That is what's important. 23:08 Yeah. We are still in the office of Mr. 23:12 Coffee. 23:13 Bambang Sulistomo. Coffee session, 23:15 right. 23:15 In his office, there’s this white 23:18 tiger, like the one in Kediri. In which 23:22 village? Balong Jeruk. 23:23 Yes. This is a descendant of that tiger 23:25 . 23:27 This contains hundreds of thousands 23:29 here. And dollars too. We are having 23:35 coffee again. Now, why, uh, hm, Bung 23:38 Tomo passed away in Mecca, what year 23:41 was it? 23:43 '81. 23:43 '81. Why was he buried in Indonesia and 23:47 not in Ma'la? If in Mecca, right? 23:49 Why? 23:50 Yes. So here is the story of how Father 23:53 wanted to go on the Hajj; he was about 23:55 to go for Friday prayer, uh, in the 23:58 afternoon, uh, setting off for Friday 24:00 prayer. Father stopped, heard the call 24:03 to prayer, and then he cried. Yeah, 24:05 Father cried, then Father walked from 24:08 home, right? 24:09 Back when we were in Ja— 24:10 Taman Seropati park, he walked down 24:12 Besuki, right? 24:13 Walking while crying, then crossing the 24:15 road past the St. Stephan church, uh, 24:17 that chicken church. 24:19 Past Bernas, then straight to— 24:21 Oh, Riska, or the Sunda Kelapa mosque. 24:23 Sunda Kelapa, then Father went to Sunda 24:25 Kelapa Mosque. 24:27 Then Father returned from there, after 24:29 Friday prayers, he told my mother that 24:32 he felt he had to go on the Hajj 24:34 pilgrimage. Yeah. 24:36 My mother said, "Yes, thank God." Like 24:38 this, right. Then Father said, "But 24:41 where will the, uh, funds come from?" 24:43 Yeah. 24:44 Because my father wasn't working at the 24:46 time. 24:46 Yeah. 24:47 My mother said, "Well, what can we do?" 24:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll just try our 24:53 best. Mother said that, right? 24:55 So Father made an effort by visiting 24:57 people he thought might be able to help 24:58 . Including the last one, visiting Mas 25:01 Agung's house. Mas Agung. Oh, right. 25:06 Gunung Agung. 25:07 The owner of Gunung Agung. 25:08 He is a Muslim, isn't he? 25:09 Mas Agung. Yeah. 25:10 Yes, he is a Muslim. Then Father 25:12 brought a painting. 25:13 Father's hobby was painting. 25:15 Oh, I see. 25:16 The painting still exists. And Father 25:18 brought the painting to Mas Agung, 25:21 offering it to be bought. 25:23 Hm. " 25:25 Just buy this painting of mine to pay 25:27 for the Hajj." For what? For the Hajj 25:30 trip. Oh, I see. Alright, alright, 25:32 alright. How much is the Hajj trip? Uh. 25:35 I'm like this. Then he went to visit 25:36 someone else again? Uh, bringing 25:39 something, I suppose. Finally, his wish 25:41 to go on Hajj was granted. 25:42 Uh. 25:43 Father, Mother, my older sister Tin 25:46 Sulistami, and my younger sister Ratna 25:49 Sulistami; the other Sulistami and I 25:52 didn't go. Yeah. 25:55 The four of them went there. While 25:57 there, Father, well, uh—saw that the 26:02 Hajj arrangements were just like that. 26:06 There was a Sheikh, and that Sheikh 26:08 would find a house for the Hajj 26:10 pilgrims. Now, when my father arrived, 26:14 the Sheikh who was supposed to manage 26:16 the Hajj housing wasn't there. 26:18 Hm. 26:20 Well, my father was confused, "Where is 26:21 he?" and it turned out the Sheikh was 26:23 there. The Sheikh hadn't been told that 26:25 he was getting pilgrims. 26:27 Yeah. 26:28 One group consisted of 350 people. 26:31 He didn't receive any pilgrims. So, my 26:32 father was like, "So, what now?""Oh, I 26:35 apologize, I didn't know I was 26:36 allocated this group." So, what 26:38 happened was my father ended up helping 26:40 to manage them. 26:40 Uh. 26:41 He helped manage, uh, the 300 pilgrims, 26:44 climbing up and down stairs to the 4th 26:47 and 5th floors, and... 26:48 They had already arrived in Mecca. 26:49 Yes. 26:50 Climbing up and down stairs, and Father 26:52 was already what age? He was old, right 26:54 ? And he, uh, had no place to sleep. 26:57 Finally, we got an old restroom. An old 27:02 restroom, a former bathroom used as a 27:03 place for mother to sleep. 27:05 Oh, I see. 27:06 Because we didn't get a room, and no 27:08 one was taking care of us. 27:09 She just made do with whatever, and 27:12 Father was already used to it. Then 27:16 Father went about his worship as usual, 27:17 but it turned out he had a stroke. 27:20 Hm. 27:20 Because he forgot to drink. 27:22 Oh. Oh, 27:23 he was busy taking care of many 27:24 pilgrims. Yeah. 27:25 Taking care of pilgrims, moving here 27:27 and there, somehow he got a stroke. So 27:31 he was taken to the hospital. My mother 27:33 didn't know. My mother was told he had 27:35 a stroke. H. 27:36 When all the pilgrims had to go to 27:38 Arafah. 27:38 Yeah. 27:39 They had to do wukuf, everyone had to 27:41 participate. 27:42 Yes. 27:43 Including those 27:43 even those who were sick. 27:44 Those who were sick had to join. 27:45 They had to join. Yeah. 27:46 My father joined. Now, what we found 27:48 strange was why my mother wasn't 27:50 invited to accompany Father during 27:52 wukuf. 27:54 Hm. 27:55 Even though my father was part of the 27:56 group that was carried on stretchers or 27:58 in ambulances 28:01 to the hospital. So, my father was 28:03 there in a hospital bed in Arafah. 28:06 Yeah. 28:07 But my mother, my older sibling, and my 28:09 younger sibling weren't invited. 28:10 Hm. Right at the time of the adhan, 28:16 they were doing wukuf. What is the term 28:17 ? When the adhan for wukuf sounded, 28:20 then there were takbirs, and some said 28:24 Bung Tomo passed away. "Bung Tomo 28:26 passed away," they said. 28:27 H. 28:28 My mother was shocked. Where is my 28:32 husband? People said he was over there. 28:34 At the hospital. Yeah. That was it. 28:36 Only then was my father brought there, 28:38 and we saw he had already passed away. 28:39 Hm. Father had passed away. After that, 28:43 everyone took care of it. Yes, everyone 28:46 took care of it. Then there was the 28:48 burial; usually, if someone is there, 28:49 they don't need to be brought back 28:51 because it's already considered clean 28:52 to be buried in 28:54 Malang. 28:55 Yes. 28:56 He was buried there in Arafah. 28:58 Yeah. 29:00 Then we were asked by the Hajj 29:01 officials and so on, the Director 29:03 General of Hajj, "Where does the family 29:05 want him buried?" My mother responded, 29:09 "Usually, where do they go in this 29:11 situation?" They said, "Just bury him 29:13 there in the Arafah cemetery." 29:14 Yeah. 29:15 Yes. So it was settled, then I got a 29:18 call from a prominent Madurese figure. 29:22 What was his name? 29:23 That person from Bakin. The person from 29:25 Bakin called me. 29:27 Mr. who? Oh, I forgot his name. 29:30 His child happens to be a friend as 29:31 well. "Mr. Bambang, your father has 29:33 passed away." When did he pass away? 29:35 What happened? So what now, where will 29:37 he be buried? He immediately said, " 29:39 Well, it would be better if he were 29:41 buried in Indonesia." 29:42 He he. " 29:43 But usually, you're not allowed to bury 29:44 them in Indonesia.""He has to be—" 29:45 well, " 29:46 I don't know how, but somehow."" 29:48 Whatever it takes, I want my father 29:50 buried here," I said. 29:51 Yeah. 29:52 Why? "So that visiting his grave is 29:54 easy here." 29:54 Yeah. Yeah. 29:55 So that was it, I said that, and that 29:57 was it. When my father returned to 30:00 Indonesia, he was escorted by many 30:02 people, they asked me. Before that, I 30:06 had already talked to my friends, how 30:08 can my father be buried in Indonesia? 30:12 So, I met with Mas Murdiono. 30:15 H 30:16 From there, I met who was it? Uh, some 30:22 people from the State Secretariat, I 30:24 told them I wanted this and that. But 30:27 no, Pak Bambang, this is quite 30:29 difficult because usually once buried 30:31 there, it’s hard, you know. But how 30:34 can we do it? Then I met Pak Muhammad 30:36 Natsir. Yes. 30:38 What kind of figure? An Islamic figure 30:40 who was very influential in Saudi 30:42 Arabia, what was it? 30:45 What, Al-Islam, what was it? 30:47 Then I met with other friends. Finally, 30:50 I said that I wanted to do this and 30:52 that. What is the law, then? The law is 30:54 varied for these people. Done. Then 30:56 finally, for 6 or 7 months, we waited. 31:02 While I was sent to Saudi Arabia to see 31:05 where my father was buried. It turned 31:08 out it was still there. 31:09 Hmm. Yes. 31:11 So I was sent by the government to go 31:14 there. Then I looked at the Arafah 31:18 cemetery, and it turned out there was a 31:21 sheep herder who saw when my father was 31:24 buried with many people, you know, 31:26 there were many people. 31:29 He saw and pointed it out. Oh yes, 31:31 right here, so we marked it. 31:32 I wasn't given a name because. 31:34 No name was given, there was no name, I 31:36 already gave a name, then we returned 31:39 to Jakarta and concluded that his 31:41 burial place was indeed there, so 31:43 finally we left to retrieve him. 31:45 H 31:46 So at that time, Pak Harto agreed. 31:48 Even though he was already buried at 31:49 that time. 31:50 He was already buried, Pak Harto agreed 31:52 , and everyone, Pak Sarwedi, also 31:53 helped. Pak Sarwedi helped a lot 31:55 because he was the Inspector General of 31:56 the Ministry of Public Works. 31:57 Yes. 31:58 Pak Sarwedi. Then Pak Sukarton Marmo 32:01 Sujono. 32:02 Then one more, who was the military 32:04 secretary? 32:05 Ah, I forgot his name. Goodness. 32:07 Yes. Uh. Finally, we found him. So when 32:13 it was being exhumed, it was like, 32:16 there were a dozen holes, right? The 32:19 hole was opened using, like, a sewer, 32:22 like concrete, it was opened. There 32:25 were already four bodies visible, then 32:27 they were checked, and they opened it, 32:29 and looking at the one that looked like 32:30 my father, oh, this one, he pointed it 32:32 out. Correct. 32:33 H 32:33 They opened the cloth, and we checked 32:35 the teeth, as it happened my father's 32:37 dentist... 32:38 Yes. 32:40 My father's dentist in Tosari, what was 32:42 the doctor's name? Pak Nasution was his 32:46 name. He had entrusted the dentures. 32:48 Yes. 32:49 So everything was a complete surprise. 32:54 Dentures. Then they were brought down 32:56 and the dentures were shown. And we 32:58 took the body. 33:00 Hmm. 33:01 So we were just... 33:03 So are you sure it wasn't swapped? Yes, 33:04 Mas. 33:04 Yes. Then it was wrapped, placed in a 33:06 casket, adorned with the red and white 33:08 flag, and brought to Indonesia. Now, in 33:11 Indonesia. 33:12 Buried in. 33:13 Yes. Because my mother and father's 33:16 family always said, if I pass away, 33:19 don't bury me in the heroes 'cemetery. 33:22 Oh, that was a message from Father. 33:24 Yes. With with Father, with Mother, 33:26 it's not that we don't respect the 33:28 heroes' cemetery, but Father preferred 33:30 to be buried among the people. 33:32 The people. Oh, I see. Okay. 33:34 So, Father was buried in Ngagel, buried 33:36 with the people. 33:38 Where? 33:38 In Ngagel. In Surabaya, Surabaya. 33:40 Yes. So the ceremony inspector was Mr. 33:42 Surono. 33:43 He. 33:43 Mr. Rono was Coordinating Minister for 33:44 Political, Legal, and Security Affairs 33:46 at that time, or Mr. Rono 33:47 or what was it? Mr. Rono was the 33:49 ceremony inspector, then it was a state 33:52 ceremony, and then he was buried. So we 33:57 felt that we had brought Father back to 33:59 the homeland. It didn't mean we didn't 34:03 appreciate those who passed away there, 34:04 but we wanted to make it easier for 34:06 people to visit his grave. 34:08 Hm. That is what several religious 34:11 scholars said, that it was just to 34:14 facilitate visits, not to disrespect 34:16 the cemetery or anything. Not that it 34:19 was anything else. 34:19 And those who visit are not just family 34:22 , many Indonesians do too. 34:23 Amen. Amen. Alhamdulillah. 34:25 Alhamdulillah. It’s still the same 34:26 now. 34:27 Oh, it’s in Ngagel now, right? 34:28 Yes, Ngagel. So that was the struggle, 34:31 and when my mother passed away recently 34:33 , she was also buried in Ngagel. 34:35 In Ngagel too, right? Mother was in the 34:37 tourist city if I recall correctly. Yes 34:39 , in the end, Mother was considered, if 34:40 I'm not mistaken, one of the most 34:42 beautiful people back then. 34:43 Oh, when I look at photos of Mother, 34:47 there is a photo of Mother, you can see 34:49 it later, that Mother was truly 34:52 the star of the old days. 34:56 Especially after, especially after 34:57 Mother grew older and had children, the 34:59 more children she had, the more 35:01 beautiful she became. 35:02 Mas. Yes, yes. Okay, okay, okay, okay. 35:07 We'll take a break first. After this, 35:10 we will return with Mr. Bambang 35:12 Sulistomo, son of Bung Tomo. Still with 35:38 the show, with the figure, or still 35:41 with Rasil, with Mas Bambang Sulistomo, 35:44 son of Bung Tomo. Now, as the son of 35:51 Bung Tomo, you certainly have a 35:53 patriotic spirit at the National 35:56 Resilience Council. That's right, isn't 35:58 it? 35:58 Yes. 35:59 You also helped manage the GBH? 36:01 Yes, that's right. Now, why did you 36:03 join the demonstrations to the point of 36:05 being imprisoned, how was that story? 36:07 At that time, I was a student activist. 36:11 There was the issue of foreign capital. 36:14 Hm. 36:15 We were opposing foreign capital that 36:18 wasn't used properly for the people's 36:20 prosperity. 36:21 He. 36:23 Foreign capital was only for, well, for 36:25 the business of big shots. That's what 36:27 we thought. Foreign capital that didn't 36:30 trickle down prosperity to the people. 36:33 We held a demo. The target at that time 36:36 was Japanese capital. I sometimes think 36:40 , well, this is an experience. So we 36:43 organized a demo. I led the first demo 36:46 to Kemayoran. 36:48 Hm. 36:49 Yes. We held a meeting. 36:50 Why Kemayoran? 36:51 At that time, Tanaka was coming. The 36:53 Prime Minister of Japan. 36:54 Oh, Tanaka. Mas. 36:55 The Prime Minister of Japan was coming, 36:56 right? Yes, in Kemayoran. I was meeting 37:00 with friends at the time, there was 37:02 Bram Zakir, there was, who was that 37:05 actor back then, who was that woman, I 37:07 can't seem to recall her name. I forget 37:11 , there were many other friends who met 37:13 there too. We had a meeting, we headed 37:16 to Kemayoran while preparing some 37:18 posters. 37:19 Hm. 37:20 Yes. But we knew that many police 37:23 officers were already waiting there for 37:25 us. So then, we had a meeting to figure 37:28 out what to do. Eventually, we staged a 37:32 fake demonstration in one place. It 37:35 turns out we demonstrated here, where 37:37 there were many reporters. 37:39 There were so many reporters. 37:40 To deceive them. 37:41 Oh, the reporters were for... 37:44 Yes. Who was that woman back then? Gosh 37:47 , the female activist who was in 37:49 Theater Koma. 37:50 Oh, Ratna. Ratna who? Nano, Nano 37:53 Riantarno. 37:54 Ah, one more, one more. 37:56 Her husband is also, uh. 38:00 She's an artist, her husband is a 38:03 famous, what, director, ah, I've 38:06 forgotten now. Then there was. 38:09 Ratna Sarumpaet. No. 38:11 No, no, no, there was one more, I'm 38:13 sorry, I have forgotten her name, just 38:15 sorry about that. So, after that, the 38:18 demonstration ended. After that, we 38:20 were known as a group that was truly 38:22 radical. 38:24 Heh. 38:26 Protesting everywhere, and we were 38:27 invited to speak everywhere, at UI, 38:29 everywhere we spoke because they 38:31 noticed us. So, this is why, when the 38:35 January 15th movement happened, I was 38:39 the first one arrested. 38:42 Hm. Heh. 38:43 Yes, along with other friends, I was 38:45 arrested with. 38:47 Bisman Siregar. 38:48 Yes, Hariman Siregar. 38:51 Eko Jatmika. 38:53 And then, Remil Lemen. 38:56 Then, the kids, Salim Hutajulu. 39:00 Friends from UI. There were five from 39:03 UI, and seven or three from outside UI, 39:05 right? So, we were arrested, we were 39:08 placed in the military detention center 39:11 on Jalan Budi Utomo. 39:13 Hm. 39:14 There was a detention house there. 39:17 Turns out when we got inside, there 39:19 were already many other political 39:21 prisoners inside. Heh. 39:22 How did you know? 39:23 From where? 39:24 From the PKI. 39:26 Oh, why were you put together with them 39:27 ? 39:28 The greatest PKI figures, because they 39:31 were brought from Blitar when they 39:32 tried to rebuild there in Blitar. They 39:36 were caught by Mr. Witarmin’s Trisula 39:38 operation. 39:39 Caught and brought there as well. 39:42 One room, how many were there. So we 39:45 got one room, but I met them and I was 39:48 lucky, why, because I could meet the 39:51 heavy-duty PKI figures. 39:53 Samkam, Arusam, Mr. Ruslan Partawijaya, 39:55 Mr. Munir, the SOBSI leader, I was 39:57 lucky I could have dialogues with them. 40:00 Why lucky? 40:00 Yes, because. 40:01 Susi. 40:02 Like this. Yes, the other friends, if 40:04 they were there, would play badminton 40:06 or play cards. Not me. Whenever I went 40:08 there, I would always go to their place 40:10 . So in the afternoon they would gather 40:12 . 40:12 For example, gathering with several PKI 40:14 figures. I just came and said, "Excuse 40:17 me, I'm from the politburo, I'd like to 40:19 join the discussion," like that. That's 40:23 what I said. I said I'm politburo. Oh, 40:26 oh, please, sir. Please, sir. I joined 40:28 in, but we just talked about normal 40:31 political things. 40:33 So, I knew the PKI leaders well, and I 40:35 truly understood the way those PKI 40:37 friends thought. Yeah. 40:39 Yes, even though they were old and 40:41 struggling, they never looked troubled. 40:43 They were truly, genuinely ideological. 40:45 Yeah. 40:47 Not just politicians who, well, not 40:49 just politicians who only enjoy power 40:51 like today. 40:53 They were ideological. So, they had no 40:54 hardships. Oh. 40:56 Even when detained, they remained that 40:59 way, even until they were to be 41:01 executed, they remained figures; I even 41:03 had my and my wife's portraits painted 41:06 by one of the special bureau members, I 41:08 forgot his name, I made it, I kept the 41:11 painting. 41:13 Yeah. 41:14 I gave him money, "Sir, sorry, I'm 41:16 paying for this,""It's fine, thank you, 41:18 " the head of the special bureau, Mr. 41:20 Samkamur at the time. 41:22 Yes, until now, I keep that painting in 41:25 my room. So, being with those PKI 41:28 friends, I was lucky because as a young 41:30 man, I rarely met older PKI members, 41:32 right? 41:34 It’s rare, you know. 41:35 So I felt lucky, well, let it be. In 41:37 fact, friends like the late Eko back 41:39 then, if he met me, he’d say, "This 41:42 is Bambang, he's being nurtured by the 41:44 PKI," he said. 41:46 What was their PKI-ness that was most 41:49 visible, what stood out most? 41:51 Yes. Yes. No. They didn't talk about 41:54 how great their ideology was. Because 41:57 they knew people like me, if they 41:59 campaigned about how great the ideology 42:01 was, well, I had already learned about 42:03 communism back in school, so I knew, so 42:06 for them it wasn't necessary; they 42:08 talked about daily life, how they were 42:10 once chased. 42:12 Yeah. So things like that. 42:15 How they, why they once felt, some felt 42:18 that, "We were caught off guard," the 42:20 PKI, many felt like that. So I had many 42:25 stories like that, and I'm grateful to 42:28 have been detained at RTM; I gained 42:30 knowledge that others didn't, I think 42:32 even Aidit's children today have never 42:35 had a dialogue with Aidit. But I had 42:38 dialogues with the toughest PKI figures 42:41 . Yeah. 42:42 Mr. Ruslan Partawijaya, Mr. Munir, 42:44 those were the figures. 42:45 There was another one, a Muhammadiyah 42:48 man who was exiled to Boven Digoel. 42:52 A Muhammadiyah figure. Yeah. 42:53 But, but he was considered leftist, 42:56 right? 42:57 Not an old man, Mr. Pardi was his name. 42:59 Mr. Supardi was his name. 43:01 He prayed, yes, he prayed devoutly. 43:02 Oh, he prayed. But. 43:03 He prayed devoutly. 43:04 Yes, yes, he prayed. 43:06 Yeah. So, so there were many. So, so I 43:09 think there are many interesting things 43:11 , and I will tell them later when I 43:12 write my diary, I will tell the story 43:14 of my meetings with those great PKI 43:15 figures. No one else ever has. Imagine 43:22 others playing badminton or dominos. I 43:25 rarely chat with them though. 43:28 But they don't try to influence me. No. 43:30 Right? Maybe they do influence, but you 43:32 know, influencing someone like me. 43:33 Could it be that I’m the one 43:34 influencing them? We’re on the same 43:38 level, right? They are still young, but 43:40 me, well, you know, right? I don't know 43:43 if they are using me or not, but I 43:45 don't, I don't feel it. But I feel that 43:48 they are being straightforward, you 43:50 know. Chatting with Bambang Sulistomo, 43:54 well, let's not talk about politics. 43:56 I want to move on, here there's a World 43:59 Bambang Brotherhood calendar, is there? 44:01 Yes, the Bambang Brotherhood. 44:02 World Bambang Brotherhood. 44:05 Yes, it exists. 44:05 Who founded it? 44:07 This was when I was invited by them to 44:10 eat. Breaking the fast. Breaking the 44:13 fast at Kembang, there's a small cafe, 44:15 I was invited to come, "Mr. Bambang, 44:17 let's form an organization, we all have 44:20 the name Bambang." How many people? 44:22 Seven people, you know. Seven people. 44:24 Where did you get this? "Ah, what do 44:25 you want to make?" What kind of 44:27 organization? Well, it’s up to me, I 44:28 just went along with it, right? We 44:31 broke the fast, then one time they met 44:33 again, made it, eventually it got 44:35 serious, and now the members are 1,700. 44:39 All over the world. 44:40 All over, well the world, meaning in 44:42 Jakarta, yes. 44:44 Then they asked for a deed, to make a 44:46 deed, for what? For this, so we are 44:49 legalized as an organization, oh sure, 44:52 I told them to sign it at my house, so 44:55 I... 44:55 There’s even a calendar for it. 44:57 There’s the World Bambang Brotherhood 44:58 , there's also the World Agus 44:59 Brotherhood, the World Tobing 45:00 Brotherhood. 45:01 There are others too, right, Asep is 45:03 the most common one, Asep also exists. 45:05 But they are less active, the most 45:06 active one is this Bambang. 45:07 Oh, what are the activities? 45:09 Right? We want the name Bambang to be 45:11 global. Because many people now have 45:16 names like George, Michael, or what, 45:19 Brian. Indonesian names, well, Joni, 45:23 Indonesian names are rare. We want the 45:26 name Bambang to exist again. So it’s 45:28 not that the name Bambang is a name for 45:31 people from the rural outskirts. 45:36 Is SBY joining? 45:37 Uh, I don't know. But he definitely 45:39 heard about it. 45:41 There are several prominent figures too 45:42 . Oh, he definitely heard about it. 45:45 Yes. We'll invite him later too. 45:49 Just as long as when you meet SBY, 45:51 don't ask about his diploma. Playing on 45:58 the edge. 46:01 Okay. 46:02 Yes. Yes. 46:03 Bambang, what did you teach as a 46:05 lecturer? 46:07 I used to teach when I was a lecturer 46:09 at Krisnadwipayana University. I was 46:13 there for almost 14 years. I taught 46:15 Introduction to Sociology. 46:16 Hm. 46:17 Then I also taught at Perbanas. 46:20 Hm, at Perbanas I was asked by 46:22 Professor Watno to teach. I taught 46:26 development economics. 46:28 Hm. 46:28 So I was forced to study development 46:30 economics. I had to, so I tried 46:33 teaching subjects that had strong 46:35 connections to society. 46:39 And that didn't really need heavy 46:41 textbooks, did it? 46:44 Development economics, how many laws 46:45 are there really? Sociology too, not 46:48 that many. So I tried teaching things 46:51 that were closely related to people's 46:54 daily lives. 46:55 How many semesters was that? 46:57 Well, for that, it was two semesters. 47:01 Two semesters. 47:02 For social systems, two semesters. For 47:05 introduction to development economics, 47:07 one semester. 47:08 Huh. 47:10 So, back then, I was also asked to act 47:13 in a film. 47:14 Hm. 47:14 Acting in a film, me. 47:15 Yes. Yeah. What film? Well, back then, 47:18 what was the title 47:18 yeah, back then 47:20 November 28, wasn't it? 47:21 Yes, wasn't it? 47:22 Teguh Karya. 47:23 Back then there was TV. 47:25 There were no private TV stations yet. 47:27 It was still TVRI, right? 47:28 TVRI. Well, TVRI had programs, uh, 47:32 campaigns about Pancasila. 47:35 Yes. BP7, that is. 47:36 Yeah. 47:37 BP7, one day they said, "Mr. Bambang, 47:40 do you want to act in a BP7 film, and 47:43 as what?" Yes, as the actor. What kind 47:45 of actor? What was the BP7 film like? I 47:48 tried reading the script. I read the 47:51 BP7 script. Wow, it's just pure 47:54 propaganda. If it's just propaganda, 47:58 people won't watch it. There has to be 48:00 conflict, right? What kind of conflict, 48:02 Ma'am? Bambang, right? Conflict between 48:04 the characters. So that people see the 48:06 conflict and the solution is Pancasila. 48:08 Yes, like that, right? 48:09 They said, "Wow, we can't do that. Many 48:12 won't agree with this." Yes. Finally, 48:15 they consulted; TVRI consulted with BP7 48:18 , consulted with, uh, the State 48:20 Secretariat, they said. 48:23 Hm. 48:23 They said it even reached Mr. Harto. 48:25 Yeah. 48:26 It turned out Mr. Harto and the State 48:28 Secretariat agreed. 48:29 Oh. 48:29 So, three or four films after that were 48:32 full of nothing but conflict. I was a 48:35 lawyer in conflict, I was a farmer in 48:37 conflict, everything in conflict. But 48:40 many people watched. 48:41 Back then there were no private TV 48:43 stations, 48:43 nothing else, right. 48:45 I wanted to gather people to watch that 48:47 TV, to see it. People said they were 48:50 interested because there was a 48:52 depiction of social reality. 48:54 H. 48:55 Back then it wasn't allowed, right, 48:56 during Mr. Harto's time. 48:57 Yes. 48:57 Political conflict was not allowed. 48:59 This was moderated instead. Mr. Harto 49:00 allowed it, it had reached that far. 49:02 Now, after that, Slamet Rahardjo. 49:04 Hm. 49:05 Called me. "Mas, I want to ask you to 49:08 act in a film." Act in what film, 49:11 Slamet? 49:12 Yeah? There's a good film here, about 49:14 what? Do you want to play a police 49:16 officer? Oh, playing a police officer. 49:18 Playing a police officer. I said, I 49:20 asked, what kind of police? An honest 49:22 cop or a cop who...who just plays 49:27 around. 49:27 A cop like in an Indian film. 49:29 Yes. I said if it's an honest cop, I'm 49:31 in. 49:32 Yeah. This is good, this Mr. Bambang. 49:34 Okay then. Finally, at that time, the 49:37 National Police Chief was Mr. N, Mr. 49:38 who, I forgot who the Police Chief was. 49:41 So, I finally looked at the script. Wow 49:44 , this is good, about the religious 49:46 life of a policeman who 49:49 who fights crime because his uncle is a 49:52 kiai, like that. Wow, this is good. I 49:56 ended up acting in Semarang and 49:58 everywhere else. Slamet Raharjo invited 50:00 me while in Semarang to walk around the 50:03 Salatiga Market. 50:04 H. 50:05 At the Salatiga market, the one who was 50:07 recognized wasn't Slamet Raharjo, I was 50:09 . 50:10 A man said, "Hey, Mas, you're the one 50:12 who acts in movies and on TV, right?" 50:16 Slamet Raharjo wasn't recognized. 50:18 Because I said, that's the advantage of 50:20 acting in movies and on TV, 50:22 because the screen is wider and 50:24 everyone sees it, I told him, so he 50:26 said, "How cheeky, I'm the one who 50:28 invited Mas Bambang, but he's the one 50:30 who's recognized." Are you still alive? 50:36 Yes. 50:37 So I felt, but after that, when Mas 50:40 Slamet Raharjo asked me to do the 50:42 dubbing, if you want to get a Citra 50:45 award, you have to dub it yourself. 50:48 Yes. Even though nowadays we don't use 50:51 these things anymore, no need to do 50:52 dubbing, it's all done directly, right? 50:54 Back then, we had to dub. 50:55 I said, what's it like to dub? I came 50:58 to PFN, the others were already dubbing 51:00 everything. I was acting with Slamet 51:03 Raharjo and who else? Hidayat and so on 51:06 . 51:07 They were dubbing. Ah, I'm too lazy. " 51:09 You won't get a Citra award, Mas." Let 51:11 it be, why bother with an award, and 51:12 finally 51:13 whose voice did I use? There was 51:16 someone, a voice that was often 51:18 recorded, Roy Marten's voice. 51:22 Yes. People often used Roy Marten's 51:25 voice, it was used for me. Well, it 51:28 turned out it wasn't just that, it 51:30 turned out the recording in the, in the 51:34 camera 51:35 not the camera, what is it used for 51:38 the tape recorder was actually used 51:40 there. In the end, maybe my own voice 51:43 was fine, just let it be. But the 51:45 others all got Citra awards, I didn't, 51:48 no problem, the point is 51:51 it was a supporting lead role at the 51:52 time, right? 51:53 Oh yes, lead, lead, because I was the 51:56 main character since I was the one who 52:00 caught the criminal. 52:02 What's the title? 52:03 Kodrat. 52:04 Kodrat? 52:05 Oh, Kodrat. Yes, that's Kodrat. 52:06 Just watch it. 52:07 It's on YouTube. Really? Yes. 52:09 It's there, it's there. Oh, I see. Okay 52:11 . 52:11 My grandchild didn't believe me. My 52:13 grandchild watched it. 52:14 He said, "Grandpa acted in a movie?" 52:16 Yes, that's right. What movie? Ah, what 52:18 kind of movie could it be? Grandpa must 52:20 have been in a comedy movie, right? 52:23 Let me see. He watched it and was 52:25 shocked. Wow, you're great in that 52:27 movie playing a cop. Extraordinary, huh 52:33 . Mas Bambang. What do you remember 52:38 about Surabaya? I, um it turns out my 52:46 life has been spent mostly in Malang 52:49 and Jakarta, but many of my relatives 52:52 are in Surabaya. Lately, after my 52:55 father passed away, I've become close 52:58 with my friends in Surabaya again. 53:00 Hm. 53:02 Our friends in Surabaya love us very 53:04 much. Our friends in Surabaya really 53:07 want to be close to us, and some have 53:10 passed away, Mas, those friends from 53:12 Surabaya. So even the elders are no 53:15 longer here. 53:18 So I feel that Surabaya is a city whose 53:23 spiritual strength must be restored. Hm 53:25 . 53:28 Now, I am very pleased with the current 53:31 mayor and vice mayor 53:33 when they defended the people who were 53:37 evicted. 53:37 Yes. 53:38 There were those evicted, and the mayor 53:40 and his deputy defended them. 53:43 And I am proud that this is what we ask 53:45 , that Surabaya city must return to 53:47 that. 53:48 Hm. 53:49 Defending justice. Surabaya city must 53:51 defend those in need. Yeah. 53:53 Surabaya city must show that being a 53:55 city of heroes should be proven with 53:57 evidence. 54:00 Not just through buildings, not just 54:02 through paintings or exhibitions, but 54:05 proof that we inherit heroic values to 54:07 help the needy. 54:09 Why isn't Bung Tomo's residence turned 54:11 into a monument? 54:13 Yes, that— 54:14 is there any intention from the 54:15 government? I have been invited, yes, 54:19 by an organization, uh, related to the 54:24 struggle there. They are currently 54:26 they are currently 54:27 on what road is it? 54:28 I don't know where they are proposing 54:30 one. They are currently designing it. 54:33 They asked for our permission, asked 54:34 for permission from Pak Bambang. Okay, 54:37 go ahead, and I am not involved in the 54:40 design or anything else; it is up to 54:42 them. So they are designing that. I 54:45 just hope that their efforts are 54:47 blessed by Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala. 54:49 Oh, so there is already a direction 54:50 towards that? 54:51 Yes, there is. Yes, there already is. 54:53 So from the veterans and the young 54:55 people 54:57 who want symbols of the city of heroes. 55:01 They gathered and I was invited 55:03 and I am grateful, yes. Hopefully, it 55:05 is blessed by Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala 55:07 that endeavor, yes. 55:09 Okay. 55:09 Yeah. 55:10 So, what is the best food in Surabaya? 55:12 Especially during this month of Ramadan 55:13 , where is the most delicious place to 55:15 break the fast in Surabaya? 55:16 Nowadays, if I eat in Surabaya, there 55:18 are so many varieties of food. I 55:22 usually eat rujak cingur, Mas. 55:25 Where is that? 55:26 That rujak cingur is on the road. Oh, 55:29 behind—behind what road was it? 55:32 Behind the road with the Weta Hotel, 55:35 behind that, uh, what's it called, oh, 55:38 who knows. 55:40 Then I eat "rawon setan." Oh, rawon 55:43 setan is from there. 55:44 Yes. 55:45 Oh, 55:45 I see. They say the only ones who dare 55:47 eat rawon setan are genies. 55:49 If you are not a genie, don't dare eat 55:51 rawon setan. You might get scolded by a 55:54 demon. 55:55 Yes. And then there are many Surabaya 55:58 foods now, all sorts, and 56:00 many restaurants opening, 56:03 uh, stalls, for example, around the 56:05 Heroes 'Monument. Wow, all kinds of 56:08 things. Yes. 56:09 And I, uh, but I am already at a golden 56:12 age. 56:12 Yes. 56:13 I am also afraid if I eat cholesterol. 56:16 Cholesterol, cholesterol. I am old now, 56:18 my weight might go up. No cholesterol. 56:22 But exercise keeps going, right? 56:24 Yes. Must. Must. 56:25 I just do simple exercise. Breathing 56:27 exercises. 56:28 Hmm. I see. 56:30 Are your children, Mas Bambang, and 56:32 your grandchildren reminded that we are 56:34 Bung Tomo's children and must uphold 56:37 our father's good name? Is it like that 56:39 ? 56:39 Well, for my children, they know, but 56:42 the ones who are a bit more aware are 56:44 the third generation, the grandkids. My 56:47 children know, but they often never 56:51 bring up the subject of Bung Tomo. 56:54 Never bring it up. It's just that on 56:57 Heroes' Day, when it's on TV or social 57:00 media, they always say, "Grandpa, look, 57:02 there's this. Dad, Dad, my kid says, ' 57:07 Look, there's this.'" They always show 57:09 me. 57:10 And for me, that's quite pleasant. 57:13 Thank God. 57:15 My children and grandchildren, even if 57:17 they don't, you know, glorify it, they 57:20 do remember. The important thing for us 57:23 isn't being glorified as 57:25 a fighter's children, no. But the 57:26 important thing is just to remember 57:27 that 57:28 this struggle also produced something 57:31 we should cherish. 57:33 Hm. 57:33 That's it. So, hopefully, because right 57:36 now there are many people who feel 57:41 heroes don't mean anything anymore, 57:44 right? Why? Because we don't fight for 57:47 those values. 57:48 Because we don't protect those values. 57:52 Because their spiritual values aren't 57:54 being developed for the good of this 57:57 nation; that's the reason. 58:00 So that's why heroes aren't appreciated 58:03 , I think. 58:05 Yes, Mas, when Bung Tomo said "Allahu 58:07 Akbar," it was very authentic; he used 58:09 to attend religious gatherings too. 58:11 Yes. 58:12 He attended study groups. 58:13 Yes, Father was close to friends from 58:15 Nahdlatul Ulama. 58:16 Hm. Oh, I see. 58:18 Yes. And then 58:19 they were indeed close, right? Yes. 58:20 Because people from East Java are still 58:21 like that, Mas, right? 58:23 People from East Java are like that 58:24 regardless. But Father's life was 58:26 difficult, so earning money...his life 58:29 was very hard. He once did what I said, 58:32 Mas. He once worked as a tennis ball 58:35 boy, and the money was used to sell 58:36 eggs. 58:37 Yes. Yes. He sold...even when he was 58:40 older, even when he had become a 58:42 fighter, he was still selling chicken 58:44 eggs. Now, when he was small, my mother 58:48 —my grandmother on my father's side 58:51 —used to wash clothes. 58:55 She washed clothes for wealthy people, 58:58 cleaned them, ironed them, and gave 59:01 them back; so that was indeed the life 59:05 my father told me and my siblings about 59:08 , the life my parents lived. 59:13 MashaAllah, with a prominent figure, 59:16 Bapak Bambang Sulistomo, son of Bung 59:19 Tomo. 59:21 Yes. 59:21 Are there any books of his, Bung? Books 59:24 ? 59:24 Many, 59:25 Ma'am. Many. 59:26 Who wrote them? 59:27 Father. So, Father. Yes, Father. Father 59:30 wrote books himself. There are poetry 59:31 books too. 59:32 Poems compiled into books. And there 59:34 are also books about state management. 59:36 Even if they are thin. 59:37 Heh. 59:38 Yes. There are some. 59:40 They can still be found. 59:41 Yes, they exist, if I'm not mistaken. 59:43 But you can look for it later in the 59:45 library. 59:47 Yes. 59:47 Okay. Very well. That was our 59:51 discussion with Mr. Bambang Sulistomo, 59:54 son of Bung Tomo, who has shared so 59:57 much this month. Thank you, Mas Bambang 1:00:02 . 1:00:03 And I thank my friends at Radio Rasil, 1:00:05 because listening to my ramblings 1:00:07 requires patience. My ramblings often 1:00:12 explode, but the intention is not bad. 1:00:16 The intention is how to address things 1:00:19 that aren't right so they become right. 1:00:22 Okay. That's right. 1:00:23 Yes. Because everyone wants this 1:00:25 country to be right. Everyone, even our 1:00:26 children and grandchildren, wants this 1:00:28 country to be right. If it's right, we 1:00:31 as the predecessors will find it easier 1:00:34 to provide for their lives. Mm. I think 1:00:38 that's just a normal thing. Hm. 1:00:39 You always follow the news developments 1:00:40 , right? 1:00:41 Yes. Oh, always. Oh, I, oh, that. 1:00:43 Both international and domestic. 1:00:45 Yes. Yes. And the important thing is 1:00:47 not to always feel like we are the most 1:00:49 righteous. 1:00:49 Mm. 1:00:50 Yes, I never feel like I'm the most 1:00:52 righteous. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But 1:00:55 if my friends are like that, just let 1:00:57 them be. 1:01:00 Okay. Very well. Thank you, Mas Bambang 1:01:02 . 1:01:03 Hopefully, this program is beneficial. 1:01:05 I am Muhammad Krisna Agus. P Agus, 1:01:08 younger sibling Abi Agus, and then 1:01:12 Gavan as well. 1:01:14 Yes. 1:01:14 We would like to take our leave. See 1:01:16 you again. Wabillahi taufik walhidayah. 1:01:18 Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi 1:01:19 wabarakatuh. 1:01:19 Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi 1:01:21 wabarakatuh. Still. Okay. 
