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0:00 Permission, Mas Afri, Mas Yohan, let me 0:03 provide an introduction. In the name of 0:06 God, the Most Gracious, the Most 0:07 Merciful. Peace be upon you, and God's 0:08 mercy and blessings. Praise be to God. 0:12 May peace and blessings be upon our 0:14 Prophet Muhammad and his followers. 0:18 Leaders and prospective leaders, well, 0:20 Indonesian leaders talk a lot about 0:24 politics, the economy, education, the 0:27 environment, sports, but the cream of 0:31 the crop is the core of it, which is 0:35 leadership. Because of that, we always 0:40 try to look at this leadership from 0:43 various perspectives and sides. " 0:48 Everything rises and falls on 0:50 leadership," says John Maxwell, one of 0:53 the authors I often read. Everything 0:56 rises and falls on leadership. But we 1:00 need to reflect a lot, there have been 1:04 six elections since the reform era. 1:08 Eight presidents since our independence 1:12 . Um. Our total output as a nation and 1:20 state, if I may be honest, is falling 1:24 further behind. Singapore is far ahead, 1:28 Malaysia is leaving us behind, as well 1:31 as Thailand and the Philippines. 1:35 Starting from our PISA rankings, the 1:42 Program for International Student 1:46 Assessment, and our economy lately. 1:51 Even forest fires have become a 1:55 disaster for our neighbors. Um. With 2:04 such immense potential. If our nation 2:09 could manage itself and have good 2:13 leaders, then our total production 2:17 should be far above the domestic 2:21 capital we have. Our domestic capital 2:27 is extraordinary, geographically, 2:30 demographically, sociologically, and 2:33 even culturally, we are extraordinary. 2:37 Extraordinary. Um. Because of that, we 2:47 need to reflect, leaders and aspiring 2:50 leaders, especially regarding the 2:52 presidential position, Mas Afri and Mas 2:55 Yohan, in our constitution, it is not 2:58 just the presidential system that is 3:01 emphasized, but the positioning of the 3:04 president is truly very strong. Head of 3:10 government. They hold the budget, the 3:15 personnel policies, the president has 3:19 the prerogative rights, but they are 3:22 also the head of state, the supreme 3:26 commander of the military, and the 3:29 supreme commander of the police. 3:33 Appointing ambassadors and so on. So, 3:38 we need to think about three things. 3:43 First, the election system. In my view, 3:48 Mas Afri, Mas Yohan, a presidential 3:54 system is strong if the presidential 3:56 election happens first. That is why in 4:01 several countries, like France, it is 4:04 presidential with the presidential 4:09 election first. So that when the 4:13 executive wins, the coattail effect in 4:16 the legislature can follow, avoiding 4:19 the large coalitions we have now. And 4:24 for three terms, since the era of Mr. 4:27 SBY, Mr. Jokowi, and Mr. Prabowo, these 4:31 large coalitions are between 4:38 representativeness and governability. 4:44 Ultimately, in the end, we always fall 4:51 into the trap of a non-merit system, 4:54 and bureaucratic reform is at a 4:57 standstill. Regional autonomy is not 5:01 going far, it is quite pitiful. Now, we 5:06 need to have leaders who have a level 5:08 of statesmanship. The second point, 5:13 after the election system, is that we 5:16 really can no longer buy a pig in a 5:20 poke, we can no longer create 5:25 conditions where the barrier to entry 5:29 is high. Therefore, the Constitutional 5:33 Court was absolutely right to abolish 5:35 the presidential threshold, even though 5:37 zero is a bit tricky. For me, it is 5:41 simple: any party that enters 5:45 parliament has the right to nominate a 5:50 candidate pair. Because in the 5:53 constitution, the president is 5:54 nominated by a party, a political party 5:57 , or a coalition of parties. So, the 6:02 competition must be low The threshold 6:07 should be lowered so that there is 6:09 competition. Of course, we cannot open 6:13 it to independents, because that would 6:16 mean changing the constitution, which 6:18 has not happened yet. But by lowering 6:24 or abolishing it—if I were to propose 6:27 a threshold of 8 percent, a good party 6:31 would nominate its own cadres because 6:34 that is part of their public 6:40 accountability. The accountability of a 6:43 party is to be a melting pot for the 6:45 grooming of national leaders. Thirdly, 6:50 regarding the results for Mas Yohan, 6:53 Mas Afri has the data, but we are 6:56 citing SMRC, which has relatively 6:58 strong numbers for KDM, Mas Anis, and 7:01 then Mr. Prabowo. Of course, this is 7:06 very debatable; there are other facts. 7:12 But these three have a large chance. 7:17 Certainly, the political party leaders, 7:20 if the threshold is low enough to pass 7:27 parliament and they can nominate, then 7:29 the party leaders 'cards are still in 7:32 play. Yes, but because of these three, 7:36 I think the public needs to scrutinize 7:38 them. Who is most fit to shoulder the 7:43 burden? For me, statesmanship is number 7:47 one; their vision for education and the 7:50 economy must be correct. And third, 7:54 they must be humble enough to realize 7:55 that Indonesia is vast. Don't be 7:58 Jakarta-centric, don't centralize, okay 8:02 ? It must be regional autonomy. 8:06 Strictly following Law 23 of 2014, 78% 8:08 of affairs should be handed over to the 8:10 regions. The central government only 8:13 manages 22%, but the state budget 8:15 allocation is very disproportionate. 8:19 The regions are currently gasping for 8:21 air. For me, this is very inappropriate 8:27 . That is the introduction, Bang Hik. 8:31 Let's have a discussion. Thank you. 8:37 Alright, thank you, Pak Mardani. Now we 8:41 will hear from Pak Afri first about how 8:43 the research from the Populi Center 8:46 relates to the development of the 8:48 contestation, survey results, and 8:50 public opinion regarding presidential 8:52 candidates in 2029. There is some 8:57 interesting data regarding public 8:59 satisfaction, the rise and fall of the 9:01 current figures, and who has the 9:03 greatest potential in 2029. Pak Afri, 9:06 you are welcome to provide your views. 9:14 >> Alright. Peace be upon you and Allah's 9:15 mercy and blessings. 9:16 >> And peace be upon you and Allah's mercy 9:19 and blessings. Pak, Ustaz Mardani. 9:23 >> Stay healthy always. 9:25 >> Praise be to God, yes. I hope everyone 9:27 is healthy. Thank you for meeting again 9:32 in the ILT forum. It's been a long time 9:36 since we held a reunion. Alright, Bang 9:39 Aldi. Actually, in general, Populi did 9:45 not conduct face-to-face surveys, you 9:47 know. To understand what has been 9:55 happening lately, so to speak. But we 10:08 conduct research based on studies that 10:12 might be more non-probability in nature 10:16 . I think it is something like that. 10:21 And in general, if we look at the 10:24 electability map, it is on average 10:28 relatively the same as what was found 10:32 by our friends at SMRC. So, it is true 10:38 that KDM is relatively the highest. 10:43 Then followed by Anis, and followed by, 10:46 what is it? Prabowo Subianto. Now, but 10:52 indeed, what is it? The key question is 10:56 actually, what kind of leadership are 10:58 we talking about? Earlier, Mr. Mardani 11:03 did a very, very good job of opening 11:07 this up by discussing what kind of 11:11 leadership the public actually wants. 11:16 Simply put, if we look at it, the 11:19 public just wants that. What they need 11:25 is a leader who listens, something like 11:30 that, who listens, who can provide hope 11:34 , and whose words are, well, visible 11:38 and real; that is simply what the 11:42 public wants. That means a leader who 11:47 understands the daily difficulties of 11:50 their people. They know that the prices 11:54 of basic necessities are high. They 11:57 understand that right now it is 11:59 difficult to find a job. Because many 12:03 companies are going out of business and 12:08 so on. And many workers rely on online 12:14 ride-hailing services as an economic 12:17 cushion for their lives. If we look at 12:23 it daily, there are many online 12:26 ride-hailing drivers with brand new 12:29 jackets. It could be that they just 12:33 switched to being online drivers. 12:37 Whether it is truly as their main job 12:41 or as a side job to make ends meet. But 12:48 regardless, it shows that there is a 12:51 problem with how our society has to 12:55 meet their needs. Secondly, of course, 13:00 the public wants a leader capable of 13:02 providing hope. Hope that is not just 13:07 empty talk, of course, but clear policy 13:11 direction. Now, perhaps that is what 13:17 has not been obtained so far. And 13:21 lastly, the public perhaps does not 13:25 really see any concrete results. 13:29 Concrete results that they can actually 13:34 feel. These conditions, in my opinion, 13:39 are what make the average satisfaction 13:43 with the government's performance 13:46 relatively decline over time. As 13:51 reported by SMRC, it is already well 13:56 below 50%. That is a figure that is 14:04 rarely seen by a president or by a 14:11 government. Well, because of that, if 14:18 we, what you might call, read these 14:21 leadership needs from the perspective 14:25 of, let's say, electability, then of 14:28 course the public is looking for 14:31 leaders who can offer exactly that. Now 14:37 , KDM, an important element, or the 14:44 leadership style he sells, is his 14:45 closeness to the public, his closeness 14:47 to his constituents. Actively checking 14:51 here and there, going out into the 14:53 field, and so on. Regardless of image 14:56 building and the like. But that is what 14:58 the public sees. He never just sits in 15:02 an office, never just hears reports 15:05 from one or two people, or so it seems. 15:10 But he goes out into the field, looks 15:14 at problems, and even tries to solve 15:17 them right there on the spot. 15:21 Regardless of his various controversies 15:23 , the public sees that. Anies offers 15:28 hope with his clean articulation, clear 15:33 ideas, and a narrative of change that I 15:38 think is quite strong. That provides 15:44 hope for the community, for the public, 15:48 especially for the middle class, of 15:52 course, who can understand those ideas 15:55 well. Therefore, it is also not 16:01 surprising that Anies and KDM, at least 16:06 up to this point, have achieved better 16:11 electability scores compared to Prabowo 16:16 himself. Because those burdens, the 16:23 economic conditions and so on, are 16:27 relatively weighing down Prabowo's 16:32 steps, President Prabowo's steps to 16:37 move, added to a very bloated cabinet 16:43 coalition where it is very difficult to 16:48 maneuver. So logically, when a group is 16:54 very large in number, that coalition is 16:57 just too big. Yes, logically it is 17:03 difficult to coordinate it, difficult 17:06 to move it compared to a coalition that 17:10 is relatively lean. It would be able to 17:15 be agile here and there. And that is 17:19 indeed a consequence that must be 17:22 accepted by this government when they 17:26 decide on a political strategy like 17:30 this. Maybe that is all for my opening, 17:35 Bang Aldi. Thank you. 17:41 >> Alright, thank you, Mr. Afri. And now 17:45 we will hear from Mr. Yohan before we 17:47 have a somewhat longer discussion. The 17:49 floor is yours, Mr. Yohan. 17:52 >> Go ahead, Mas Yuhan. 17:53 >> Right. Uh, thank you. In the name of 17:55 God, the Most Gracious, the Most 17:56 Merciful. Peace be upon you, and God's 17:57 mercy and blessings. 17:58 >> Peace be upon you, and God's mercy and 18:00 blessings. 18:00 >> Good evening, uh, Ustaz Mardani, Mas 18:04 Safri, uh, Mas Haldi. Uh, thank God I 18:10 can join this ILT forum again. Because 18:14 several times I had, uh, schedule 18:17 conflicts. Uh, back to our discussion 18:20 theme for tonight. Like Mas Afri said 18:25 earlier, Kompas's last survey release 18:29 was indeed in January 2025. Uh, 18:34 particularly regarding the 100 days of 18:36 the Prabowo administration. So, in 18:39 Kompas's tradition, releases on 18:42 electability are usually closer to the 18:46 election. So we are indeed focusing 18:50 >> on the government's performance. Uh, 18:53 that is the first point. So, indeed, 18:56 there has been no release regarding 18:59 presidential candidate electability. 19:04 But if we observe, uh, lately, the 19:06 issue of electability survey results is 19:09 quite rampant. Some, tomorrow, on 19:14 Saturday if I'm not mistaken, a survey 19:16 institution will also release a 2-year 19:19 government review, which is generally 19:21 followed by electability issues. I see, 19:26 uh, view, uh, surveys as returning to 19:29 their nature, which is, uh, reading 19:32 patterns. Often people then force 19:37 surveys to be part of a prediction. So 19:42 I differentiate between projection and 19:45 prediction. So for electability surveys 19:50 , since the basis is perception, it 19:53 still falls into the projection 19:56 category. So we are just reading 20:00 patterns. Now, if we look at, for 20:03 example, several survey institutions 20:06 releasing data on presidential 20:08 candidate electability, the patterns 20:10 lately are almost the same, though they 20:13 differ in terms of electability figures 20:16 . What is that similar pattern? There 20:19 are three top names that, uh, are in 20:23 the 202-presidential candidate 20:25 electability market. Can you hear my 20:30 voice, Mas Heldi? 20:31 >> It is audible. It is audible. Go ahead. 20:33 >> Okay. Uh, 20:34 >> It's clear, Mas. Clear. I 20:35 >> Those three names are KDM, Mr. Prabowo, 20:39 and Anies Baswedan. I think that is the 20:43 pattern currently, uh, captured from 20:46 the pulse of public perception. What 20:50 makes the pulse of these three names 20:53 appear? I think because this is 20:55 perception, it is certainly inseparable 20:58 from, uh, information consumed by the 21:01 public regarding the market of names. 21:04 As we know, Mas Safi mentioned earlier 21:09 that KDM's popularity in the digital 21:14 world is very high. How, uh, he 21:18 produces a lot of content on social 21:21 media. Well, that also more or less 21:25 influences, boosting his popularity to 21:29 the public. That is, that is for KDM. I 21:34 think why Mr. Prabowo's name appears is 21:36 because he is the incumbent president 21:39 currently in office. Why does Mr. Anies 21:42 also still appear? Well, because he was 21:45 the runner-up in 2024. So, more or less 21:50 , the sentiment of the popularity 21:52 dimension is indeed a pillar of why 21:54 these names still, uh, appear; the 21:56 pattern is the same, right. That is the 22:00 first point. The second, uh, if the 22:04 question is, uh, why more survey 22:08 institutes are, uh, placing KDM, right. 22:14 Uh, KDM is even far above Mr. Prabowo, 22:17 right. Now, this is interesting because 22:20 if we compare similar surveys in the 2 22:23 years of the first term of Mr. SBY and 22:26 the first term of Mr. Jokowi, for 22:29 example, the names of Mr. Jokowi and 22:31 Mr. SBY as incumbent presidents were 22:34 still sitting at, uh, the highest, 22:37 right, from the side of, uh, what 22:40 people think of when asked who the 22:42 presidential candidate is when the 22:45 survey is conducted, uh, during an 22:48 election, right. Now, this is 22:50 interesting because, uh, a number of 22:52 survey institutes actually place Mr. 22:54 Prabowo below KDM. Now, this is what I 22:57 think, uh, is an interesting thing to 23:00 study, right. Is this really the impact 23:04 of the approval rating, uh, where some 23:07 recent survey institutes like SMRC show 23:09 Mr. Prabowo's approval rating is below 23:12 50%, right. And this also becomes 23:16 something interesting if we compare it 23:18 to the 2 years of Mr. SBY's 23:20 administration in his first term, yes. 23:24 The first 2 years of his first term and 23:26 the first 2 years of Mr. Jokowi's first 23:29 term, the approval ratings were still 23:31 above 50%, although they tended to be, 23:34 uh, fluctuating, yes, but rarely below 23:36 50%. Now, this, uh, I interpret as 23:41 perhaps there is indeed a disincentive, 23:45 right. When the approval rating is 23:48 below 50%, this also affects the 23:51 electability level of the incumbent 23:53 before the public. Now, this needs to 23:57 be tested, yes, because certainly, uh, 24:00 I think the public market, right, 24:03 regarding electability generally 24:05 strengthens 2 years before the election 24:08 . Now, this is still 3 years before the 24:11 election, which is relatively, uh, 24:12 still a long time, right. Uh, I think 24:15 many things could possibly happen. 24:18 Public perception will definitely be 24:20 influenced by many political events in 24:22 the future. I think that will be the 24:26 determining variable of whether the 24:28 pattern currently captured by survey 24:31 institutes will be the same 3 years 24:33 from now, right. Because there are many 24:36 variables that must be considered, yes. 24:39 One of them is certainly that the 24:41 current political dynamics, uh, will 24:43 certainly become more, uh, dynamic, 24:45 right, and increasingly heated, 24:48 especially approaching the 2029 24:50 election later. But what is interesting 24:53 , uh, the third thing I want to convey, 24:56 uh, there are two variables when 24:58 someone has a chance, uh, electorally 25:01 in the presidential election contest. 25:05 The first is indeed certainly 25:06 electability. The second, I read it as 25:10 authority, yes. If we used to see that 25:13 when someone has both, they actually 25:15 have the social capital and political 25:18 capital to run, right. Because besides 25:22 what is meant by authority, they have 25:24 the authority to, uh, get a nomination 25:27 ticket from a party easily, right. 25:29 Usually, for example, they are the 25:31 general chairman, uh, they are then 25:33 indeed close to the party elite, that 25:35 is authority. Besides that, they must 25:38 also have electability. Well, 25:42 interestingly, if we review 2024, of 25:45 the three presidential candidates, only 25:48 Mr. Prabowo truly had both authority 25:51 and electability. Mr. Prabowo is the 25:55 chairman of Gerindra. Prabowo's 25:58 electability was indeed above average. 26:02 So, in the top three, yes. Entering the 26:04 top tier. Meanwhile, Mr. Anies and Mr. 26:07 Ganjar—Mr. Anies doesn't have 26:08 authority, he's not a party person. He 26:11 only has electability. The same applies 26:14 to Mr. Ganjar; although he is a party 26:16 cadre, his access to authority is still 26:19 quite distant. He is not even a DPP 26:22 official, even though Mr. Ganjar has 26:25 electability. Now, these two variables 26:29 are what also determine the extent to 26:33 which someone will have a better chance 26:36 of entering the 2029 presidential 26:39 contest. Now, if we look at the current 26:44 situation with the three names of KDM, 26:46 even though he's from the Gerindra 26:48 Party, I think his authority is still 26:50 far off. Especially Mr. Anies, again. 26:54 The same situation will be faced by Mr. 26:57 Anies as in 2024 yesterday. He has no 27:00 authority over a party. Why is this 27:03 authority important? As Ustadz Mardadi 27:05 said earlier, there are no independent 27:07 presidential candidates in our 27:08 constitution. Presidential candidates 27:10 must come from political parties. Now, 27:13 these two variables will actually be a 27:16 challenge if Mr. Prabowo were in third 27:18 place, for example. If we read the 27:22 pattern, he at least has authority. 27:24 Meanwhile, Mr. KDM and Mr. Anies do not 27:27 have that. At least, not strongly. 27:29 Especially Mr. KDM; although in 27:31 Gerindra, his authority is not strong. 27:34 They only rely on electability. High 27:38 electability, but if they don't get the 27:40 ticket, it's all for nothing. Parties 27:44 could just agree not to give tickets to 27:47 people with electability, for example, 27:49 if they all agree that presidential 27:51 candidates must be their respective 27:53 party chairmen. One can imagine Mr. KDM 27:56 and Mr. Anies would not enter the arena 27:59 . So, authority is the gateway, and 28:02 electability is an important asset. But 28:06 without authority, electability will 28:08 mean nothing. Now, I think, I believe 28:13 political parties will still consider 28:15 electability. Because it is impossible 28:21 for parties to narrow down to one or 28:25 two names without considering the high 28:29 winning probability that comes with 28:32 high electability ratings. So, this 28:37 will be a determining variable for how 28:41 much of a chance someone has in the 28:44 2029 political arena. Another thing 28:48 that I think is no less important is 28:51 the situation regarding the election 28:54 bill discussion. The Constitutional 28:57 Court did indeed set the presidential 29:00 threshold to 0%, but it's not 29:02 impossible that parties could add other 29:04 prerequisites. Coalitions, for example. 29:08 Okay. Every political party 29:11 participating in the election, or, well 29:15 , I’m not sure if the rules for the 29:19 2024 election tickets will remain the 29:23 same, where only parties currently in 29:27 parliament have the right to nominate. 29:31 So, I really don't know if it will stay 29:33 that way, but if we refer back to the 29:35 Constitutional Court's decision, all 29:37 political parties participating in the 29:39 election have the right to nominate 29:41 presidential and vice-presidential 29:43 candidates. So, the variable of how the 29:47 new Election Law looks will certainly 29:50 be an important factor in measuring 29:53 one's chances, especially beyond the 29:56 authority and electability factors 29:59 mentioned earlier. So, it depends on 30:03 whether the playing field defined by 30:05 the rules will open up opportunities or 30:07 actually shut them down. One could 30:09 imagine, for instance, if the 30:11 presidential threshold was indeed 0%. 30:14 But, one can imagine a requirement 30:17 where a presidential candidate pair 30:19 must be supported by at least 3 30:21 participating parties, or at least 4 30:23 parties; that would also be restrictive 30:26 , even if it doesn't technically 30:28 violate the Constitutional Court's 30:30 ruling. So, I think this is also 30:34 something to take note of. The last 30:37 thing, the final variable, is related 30:39 to the government's approval rating. 30:42 The government's performance will 30:45 always be directly proportional to the 30:47 extent of its chances, especially when 30:50 a government is in its first term and 30:52 looking to continue into a second. If 30:55 we look at it, as I said earlier, it is 30:58 quite an anomaly compared to the 31:00 situations in Mr. SBY’s first term or 31:03 Mr. Jokowi’s first term. It was very 31:06 rare for approval ratings to be quite 31:09 low, under 50%. Even though some survey 31:13 institutions, like Parameter, still 31:15 show it above 50%, it is very rare for 31:18 survey results to be below 50%when we 31:21 refer back to the first terms of Mr. 31:24 SBY and Mr. Jokowi, especially in their 31:27 first two years. Now, this is actually 31:31 also a determining variable for the 31:33 government's performance over the next 31:36 three years. Whether the situation gets 31:41 better or worse will quite determine 31:45 the extent of the incumbent president's 31:48 chances in the 2024 contest. But what 31:53 is clear is that, coming back to this, 31:56 it’s not too late to say it’s too 31:59 early, but it’s not too early either. 32:03 But there is a three-year period ahead, 32:05 and I think a lot can still happen. 32:09 Political dynamics will also influence 32:12 the information consumed by the public. 32:15 When the public consumes information, 32:19 it is from those materials that public 32:22 perception is then formed. So, there 32:25 will be opportunities for public 32:28 perception to fluctuate, and those 32:31 changes will remain open depending on 32:34 the next three years. That is perhaps a 32:37 little bit to start our discussion, Mas 32:40 Haldi. Thank you. 32:44 >> Alright. Uh, thank you, Mas Yohan. Uh, 32:47 now we want to try and break down the, 32:50 uh, figures currently in circulation, 32:53 right. Maybe back to Mr. Mardani, Mr. 32:56 Mardani. The Constitutional Court's 32:59 decision unlocks the emergence of 33:00 alternative figures, uh, in the 33:02 presidential election contest. Although 33:05 the presidential election is not easy. 33:07 How do you see the, uh, current 33:08 political party landscape, Mr. Mardani? 33:11 Will this lead toward, uh, another fat 33:13 coalition to support Mr. Prabowo, or 33:16 will there be political parties 33:18 offering alternative figures, right, 33:20 regardless of, uh, their current 33:22 coalition with the government. Thanks, 33:28 Bang Haldi. Uh, leaders and future 33:32 leaders, uh, the formula is simple. 33:40 Political parties exist to hold power, 33:43 not to coalesce. Therefore, uh, the 33:53 condition is dynamic, right, certainly 33:58 now, Mas Yohan, Mas Apri, there are two 34:00 , uh, camps, right. Uh, PPI, uh, Mas 34:10 Hantai Yuda, right, uh, that's 34:16 P-Tracking, uh, uh, 64 to 67%public 34:20 approval rating. But, uh, SMRC Tempo is 34:28 at 44 to 47%, right. And I agree with 34:32 Mas Yohan, uh, it's only been 2 years, 34:35 right, for Mr. Prabowo. Only 2 years, 34:38 there are still 3 years left. But, the 34:44 current era, uh, there is a principle, 34:49 uh, Mas Afri, Mas Yohan, "likulli 34:52 marhalah rijaluha." Every era has its 34:55 own people, right. Every person has 34:58 their era. For Mr. Jokowi, 2012 was 35:03 strong on Facebook, but maybe Twitter 35:06 too. 2019 was Instagram, 2024 was 35:11 TikTok, you know. Now, 2029, yeah, uh, 35:19 there is saturation in my view. So, uh, 35:25 the chance for people, uh, to have 35:31 conclusions earlier and only give a 35:35 little at the end is very high, so, uh, 35:40 it's true, KDM, if you look at Gerindra 35:47 it's impossible because Mr. Prabowo, 35:50 you know, wants to be paired, say the 35:53 issue is Mr. Jokowi, right, with PSI. 35:57 PSI itself isn't sure to pass the 35:58 threshold, you know. Uh, other parties, 36:04 I haven't seen, uh, any, but KDM's 36:07 capital, like yesterday, Mas Afri, Mas 36:11 Yohan. KDM is very creative, for me, 36:16 not coming to the event where, uh, Mr. 36:20 Prabowo was present. He wasn't there, 36:24 but he was mentioned instead. Wow, for 36:27 me, that's a very clever move, you know 36:30 . And the public, maybe Mr. Prabowo's 36:34 supporters are angry, you know. Maybe. 36:40 But for the public, him not coming, he 36:42 was indeed at Mount Ceremai in Kuningan 36:44 . Wow, that's very contrasting, you 36:48 know. And it's not easy to have that 36:52 kind of courage, that kind of 36:54 positioning, and KDM is among those 36:57 diligent at saving up, you know. So if 37:02 I used to say to Mr. Jokowi, "Do not 37:05 underestimate this man," to Mr. Jokowi, 37:08 I also want to say to KDM, "Do not 37:11 underestimate KDM," you know. uh uh uh 37:19 character, style, methods, those are 37:22 proven, right, his current position is 37:26 even quite high in many surveys. But 37:32 Mr. Prabowo holds the budget, holds the 37:39 , uh, policies, right, uh, populism is 37:45 becoming one of the features right now. 37:48 Although the technocracy, the merit 37:51 system, the governability, and the 37:56 governance might indeed be points of 37:59 note and uh the case of MSCI and so on, 38:06 for me, it's true we must have 38:10 nationalism, but it's also true that we 38:14 have some homework to address. So that 38:20 the public finds it difficult now. 38:24 Previously, forgive me, Mr. Jokowi 38:27 could go into the sewers. Now, whoever 38:30 wants to go into the sewers can't, 38:32 because it has already been anticipated 38:35 . Efficacy yes, you know, the 38:41 uniqueness and courage. Mr. Prabowo, 38:48 regardless, for me, has the biggest 38:51 chance to win in 2029 with all his 38:54 positioning since the reform era, 38:58 except for Mrs. Mega because she 39:01 replaced Gus Dur. On average, Mr. SBY 39:06 served twice, Mr. Jokowi served twice. 39:10 For me, it's hard to defeat Mr. Prabowo 39:12 , but politics is the art of the 39:19 impossible, and in the end, the law of 39:22 public sentiment will decide. Whoever 39:28 is in power must realize that power 39:31 belongs to the people and the people 39:34 have absolute power. Last week, we 39:39 invited Mas Effendi Gazali to the PKS 39:43 technical guidance session. He gave a 39:47 warning. Digital campaigns and AI 39:52 campaigns may already be widely used. 39:58 But he is somewhat worried about an 40:01 analog democracy, an analog election 40:05 won not by electoral contestation, but 40:08 by the state apparatus. He used to 40:14 mention "Parcok,""Parjok," and others; 40:17 those may become the main engines. But 40:21 for me, if that happens, it's a setback 40:24 for our democracy. And I am sure civil 40:28 society will help oversee this, 40:31 including Bang Heri, Mas Afri, and Mas 40:34 Yohan; for me, the Constitutional 40:36 Court's decision twice affirmed that 40:39 the presidential threshold should be 40:42 abolished. Yes, if we in the House of 40:48 Representatives try to formulate and 40:51 create new norms, that is the DPR's 40:55 right, but civil society is not stupid. 41:00 I was once invited by friends from 41:02 Perludem. I came elegantly. The 41:08 Perludem friends said, "Mr. Mardani, we 41:11 seek your permission to report 41:14 Commission II to the Ombudsman for poor 41:17 performance, because they haven't 41:20 discussed the revision of the political 41:23 laws, the revision of the election laws 41:26 ." It was excellent of them. And for me 41:32 , do not underestimate the power of 41:35 civil society. Day by day, civil 41:41 society has the energy, the network, 41:43 and the sincerity to protect and guard 41:46 Indonesia. Certainly, each with their 41:49 own style. Like what Greenpeace does 41:53 with all their mischief, which 41:56 sometimes, that's the way it is. That 42:02 is indeed how they raise those issues. 42:07 Because I want to appeal to myself and 42:11 all political elites or those currently 42:16 in power. Listen to the public and 42:20 civil society. This country needs us, 42:23 the elites, to be more humble in 42:25 listening. Right, Bang Heri? 42:32 >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mardani. Now, let's 42:35 go to Mr. Afri. Mr. Afri, from the 42:40 perspective of the public, we want to 42:42 look at it from the societal element. 42:47 Public satisfaction is declining, and 42:49 the problems in our nation are piling 42:51 up, you know. Mr. Prabowo has 42:55 repeatedly replaced several ministers, 42:57 deputy ministers, and officials. Then 43:00 there are many regional heads suspected 43:03 of corruption, or ministers, ministries 43:06 , and agencies. Given the current 43:09 conditions, how does Mr. Afri read the 43:12 public sentiment of the Indonesian 43:14 people regarding the state of our 43:16 country, our social politics? And will 43:21 it influence the choices in 2029, with 43:24 the public determining it, given the 43:27 very uncertain public sentiment, with 43:30 such a high level of uncertainty, so 43:33 that perhaps the power of bureaucracy, 43:37 power of authority, and power of the 43:40 budget cannot fight it? Perhaps like 43:44 what happened in the DKI regional 43:46 election when the incumbent was Mr. 43:49 Ahok. But then, what moved was the 43:52 public sentiment that finally defeated 43:55 the power of the bureaucracy. Does Mr. 43:58 Afri see a possibility of this 44:00 happening with the current social, 44:02 political, and economic situation of 44:03 the nation? Yes, Bang Aldi. Um. If we 44:10 look at it, indeed...The public today, 44:15 at the very least, some might still be 44:17 able to accept the situation. But as 44:22 the burden of life gets heavier over 44:26 time, and the government's budget 44:30 capacity to provide various kinds of 44:35 incentives becomes increasingly thin, 44:39 it could be, it is very possible, that 44:44 a major event like what happened in 44:48 late August 2025 could occur. That is a 44:52 very possible thing. Because if we look 44:57 at the pattern, economic pressures that 45:03 are getting heavier only need to be 45:07 triggered by one or two very sensitive 45:12 issues, and it will easily explode. But 45:18 the government is also learning from, 45:21 from...what you call it, from those 45:25 mass movements. I think, that's why 45:29 there is a saying, "what doesn't kill 45:31 you will make you stronger," something 45:33 like that. When the government is able 45:39 to survive a large mass movement, it 45:42 learns how to control the masses, like 45:46 yesterday, by giving quick responses, 45:49 issuing various incentives and so on, 45:53 regardless of whether those incentives 45:56 are implemented or not. At the very 46:01 least, it dampens things, it dampens 46:02 them. Then they maneuver with various 46:06 kinds of budgetary maneuvers and so on. 46:11 Now, but the public too, civil society 46:15 will surely also see it. So this is, 46:19 what you call it? An interactive 46:22 strategy, right, between the masses 46:23 themselves, the public itself, and the 46:25 government, you know. Well, the problem 46:29 is, indeed, right, um, what's it called 46:32 , um if we observe, um the increasingly 46:40 difficult economic conditions, right, 46:44 that is indeed, um, what, um, in, in 46:49 current conditions, right, it can still 46:53 be saved by, um, various, um, variants 46:56 of, um, small-scale economy, you know, 46:59 which, um, are carried out by our 47:02 society. As I mentioned earlier, for 47:06 example, um, there are still, um, 47:08 online motorcycle taxis as an, um, 47:10 economic cushion, um, what's it called, 47:12 for the community, right. Then, um, 47:16 there are still, um, what's it called, 47:19 um, what, um, unofficial traffic 47:21 controllers, right, parking attendants, 47:25 and so on, right, um, which in many 47:28 ways, um, what's it called, um, perhaps 47:31 , right, perhaps, um, can become, um, a 47:34 cushion. However, um, when, what's it 47:38 called, um, the supply of unemployment 47:41 keeps increasing, right, um, in the end 47:43 , these, um, micro-scale vacancies, um, 47:46 or maybe we can call them minimal jobs, 47:49 right, they will also become 47:51 competitive, you know. When it becomes 47:56 more competitive, well, in the end, 47:58 yeah, people, um, are forced to fight 48:00 with themselves or, yeah, fight with 48:01 others, you know. And, and that is 48:05 actually what, what is very concerning, 48:07 right. Um, that's why the government 48:11 needs to be aware of a situation, um, 48:13 like this, you know. Now, the 48:17 government's efforts to, um, what is it 48:20 called? tinker with the budget, right, 48:23 and so on and so forth, right. Um, that 48:27 is, um, perhaps part of, um, a strategy 48:30 to, um, what's it called, to prevent, 48:33 um, these, um, what's it called, mass 48:36 mobilization explosions from, um, 48:38 what's it called, erupting, right, or 48:41 becoming a reality, you know. Now, um, 48:47 in general, right, um, as conveyed 48:50 earlier by Mas Yohan and, um, Pak 48:53 Mardani, right. Can this then predict 48:58 what will happen in 2029, right. Um, 49:03 that, of course, of course, um, it's 49:05 difficult for us to, um, predict that, 49:07 you know. Politics is very dynamic, 49:10 right. Um, let alone 2 or 3 years back, 49:13 you know. Um, if we look at the 49:16 experience of, um, 2024, right, in a 49:19 matter of months it can change, it can 49:22 change, um, the electability map, you 49:24 know. Because of that, right, there are 49:28 many variables, political instruments 49:30 that, um, what's it called, initially 49:32 work silently and then work maximally, 49:35 um, on those days, right, and that can 49:37 change, um, what's it called, um, the 49:39 political map, you know. Um, especially 49:44 that, right, um, if, um, what's it 49:47 called, um, militarization strengthens, 49:51 right, um, then, um, what's it called, 49:54 um, the instruments, uh, what do you 50:00 call it, military and police 50:02 instruments, uh, as state tools are 50:04 being utilized, uh, what do you call it 50:06 , by the regime, right? That will 50:09 certainly be very, very, uh, what do 50:10 you call it? very, very, uh, affecting, 50:13 uh, what do you call it, the election 50:15 results as well. So there are many 50:18 factors that can, that can influence 50:20 that, you know. Public disappointment, 50:23 uh, at this time, right. as long as 50:27 that can still be, uh, what, suppressed 50:30 , and what do you call it, and, uh, 50:33 conditions can be stabilized, perhaps, 50:36 uh, this could also be, uh, what, a 50:39 turnaround, right, for the electability 50:42 of Prabowo himself, yes. If Mr. Prabowo 50:46 , for example, succeeds in controlling 50:49 the situation, for example, then, uh, 50:51 what, at least, you know, can make a 50:54 breakthrough that is considered 50:56 meaningful to the public, that might be 50:59 , uh, enough to save [his position], 51:01 right. Uh, but if it’s not like that, 51:06 then, uh, what do you call it, it could 51:09 be that, uh, political dynamics will, 51:12 will, uh, faster and faster, uh, what 51:15 do you call it, undergo, uh, changes. 51:20 That’s roughly it, Mang Aldi. 51:23 >> Alright, thank you, uh Mr. Afri. Now to 51:28 our Mas Yohan. Mas Yohan, uh, I 51:31 apologize, I forgot I was still off cam 51:34 . Alright, Mas Yohan, uh what does Mas 51:42 Yohan think from the press's point of 51:44 view? Uh, what are the government's 51:48 current policies and political 51:50 communication like? There have been 51:53 many, perhaps, pro-people policy 51:56 breakthroughs made by Mr. Prabowo. But 52:00 it turns out, uh, it hasn't brought 52:03 significant changes to economic 52:05 conditions, welfare, uh, corruption 52:08 levels are still high, uh, and problems 52:12 are also still high. What, roughly, 52:15 needs to be improved by Mr. Prabowo's 52:17 government, you know, so that, uh, 52:19 public satisfaction recovers? and 52:22 public trust in the government is 52:24 restored, yes. Uh, the market also 52:27 recovers, you know, and several other 52:30 problems. What, in your opinion, Mas 52:33 Yohan, is the top priority that must be 52:35 done by the government, by President 52:37 Prabowo as the leader of the government 52:39 , to face all existing problems in 52:41 order to restore public trust? 52:44 >> Yes. If we look at it, uh, actually 52:47 what needs to be maintained is public 52:49 trust. Public trust is one of the 52:54 pillars, uh, the support for how this 52:58 government is able to carry out its 53:02 programs and agendas. Well, this trust 53:06 is built from communication that is 53:08 also effective, you know. I see that in 53:12 the 2-year journey of the 53:14 administration, the biggest homework 53:16 for the Prabowo-Gibran government is 53:18 indeed the issue of communication. how 53:22 to deliver messages to the public is, 53:24 uh, not quite effective, and that is, 53:27 uh, regardless of the existing 53:29 political dynamics. The change of the 53:33 agency that is supposed to be the 53:35 government's mouthpiece, from the 53:37 beginning of the administration 53:39 continuing, uh, the PCO design, then 53:42 changing to Bakom. Even Bakom changed 53:46 its people, you know. That is a signal 53:48 that the government is indeed, uh, uh, 53:52 also seeing the problems from the, uh, 53:55 last 2 years. One of them is the issue 53:58 of communication, yes, with, uh. Yet, 54:01 in my opinion, amidst the, amidst the, 54:05 uh, massive flood of information, and 54:09 amidst, uh, how the use of social media 54:13 has become an alternative. This is 54:19 important, right, for the government to 54:21 be able to manage those massive waves 54:24 of information, uh, more effectively, 54:26 right? This has, uh, uh, not been 54:30 effective enough and hasn't been 54:32 running very well, right? The delivery 54:36 of messages, whatever the narrative is 54:39 from the government to the public, 54:40 right. So, every time there is a case 54:46 or incident, what is read, especially 54:49 on social media, is, uh, something, uh, 54:53 bad, right? For example, the Free 54:57 Nutritious Meal program, the bad issues 54:59 like food poisoning, for example, the 55:01 Red and White cooperative program. 55:05 Things that emerge, like militarization 55:07 , and even the construction of, uh, a 55:10 number of cooperatives that are not in 55:13 the midst of the public, right, really 55:15 far from the, uh, community. So, the 55:18 delivery of the message is distracted 55:21 by the large amount of information that 55:23 degrades those programs. Yes, while the 55:28 government doesn't manage the, uh, 55:30 communication being carried out well 55:32 enough, this will eventually, at a 55:35 certain point, erode trust, right. 55:38 People, uh, looking at the public, they 55:41 don't directly see how the government 55:44 is working, right? They are represented 55:47 by mediums called media and what is 55:49 called social media. And it is 55:53 important how to, uh, enliven and fill 55:57 media content and social media content 56:00 with narratives that are indeed, uh, a 56:03 public need to increase trust. That is 56:07 what actually becomes the government's 56:10 need, right. If the trust being built 56:14 fails, I think it will also, at a 56:17 certain point, affect the, uh, 56:20 realization work process of government 56:23 programs. Now, I read when returning to 56:27 a number of survey results regarding 56:30 approval ratings that tend to, uh, 56:33 decline, right, and the pattern tends 56:36 to, uh, have a slightly sharper decline 56:39 if compared to the first two years of 56:43 Mr. SBY's first term and Mr. Jokowi's 56:46 first term. I see it is indeed because 56:49 one of them is, uh, contributed by how 56:53 the government is still not, uh, solid 56:56 enough in managing communication to the 56:59 public, right. Now, I think that is, uh 57:02 , actually the homework with the change 57:04 , uh, of the Head of the Communication 57:05 Agency. We hope that management will be 57:09 more orderly and neat. Because if we 57:13 look, we compare, once again, comparing 57:16 with the SBY era, the communication 57:18 pattern was systematic, right. If we 57:22 see, people, if asked who the 57:24 presidential spokesperson was in the 57:27 SBY era, they would definitely know 57:29 Andi Mallarangeng, Julian Aldrin Pasha, 57:32 then Dino Patti Djalal; in the Jokowi 57:34 era, there were also, uh, several names 57:37 , right, uh, several names, like, uh, 57:40 uh, Ali Mochtar Ngabalin, for one, as a 57:42 spokesperson, right. Now, in the 57:46 current era, in Mr. Prabowo's era, 57:48 there isn't any, uh, what do you call 57:50 it, top-of-mind person, when people are 57:52 asked who the government's spokesperson 57:55 is who is then able to act as a 57:56 mouthpiece, right. Ultimately, it comes 58:01 down to communication, but the fact 58:04 that there have been several changes 58:06 suggests that this communication hasn't 58:09 been managed very neatly. Now, I think 58:13 for the next 3 years, with the 58:15 transition from the previous head to 58:17 the new one, I think it's an effort by 58:20 the government to be more well, to 58:25 better manage communication to the 58:28 public. Because, after all, how a 58:31 message reaches the public should 58:34 generate incentives for trust. Every 58:39 message produced by the government 58:41 should ultimately aim to increase trust 58:43 . Don't let it result in distrust 58:47 instead. Yes, I think that is what 58:49 remains a challenge for the government 58:52 lately. With the very massive 58:55 phenomenon of social media. With the 58:59 flood of information there, how to 59:02 manage the content and messages 59:05 delivered so they are well-maintained 59:08 amidst such strong distractions. Not 59:13 only on social media, but even in the 59:16 media, mainstream media also becomes 59:18 one of the challenges. Because after 59:23 all, if you look at the working 59:25 patterns so far, the media, especially, 59:28 makes social media dynamics the 59:31 inspiration for their agenda setting. 59:34 Because social media is also a 59:36 representation of the public. So I 59:39 think that is the challenge. One of the 59:43 keys for the government to be able to 59:46 strengthen public trust is by 59:48 increasing public confidence in the 59:51 government's work. Now, one of the 59:55 references for the public to trust the 59:57 government more is the messages being 1:00:00 conveyed. I think that is the challenge 1:00:04 . Conveying messages requires a good 1:00:08 approach. But what is more important is 1:00:13 that the substance of the message 1:00:15 delivered is truly the actual facts. 1:00:18 Don't let it be something that isn't 1:00:21 factual, which would then be 1:00:23 counterproductive to gaining trust from 1:00:26 the public. That's it, Bang Haldi. 1:00:31 >> Right, thank you, Masan. Hopefully, the 1:00:35 government is listening regarding 1:00:37 public communication; taking public 1:00:38 policy decisions that are more 1:00:40 attentive and involve the community can 1:00:42 also be carried out immediately by the 1:00:44 government. Alright, colleagues, we 1:00:47 have arrived at the end of the program; 1:00:49 each speaker is invited to provide a 1:00:51 closing statement. The first closing 1:00:53 statement goes to Mr. Afri. Please, Mr. 1:00:55 Afri. Yes, thank you, Bang Aldi. Yes, 1:00:59 so indeed, reading politics today 1:01:04 cannot immediately allow us to conclude 1:01:10 what will happen in the 2024 election 1:01:16 later. But at the very least, um. What 1:01:22 is happening, uh, today, you know, uh, 1:01:25 it gives a signal, you know, for, at 1:01:29 the very least, for, uh, what do you 1:01:32 call it, the political elite, perhaps, 1:01:36 to see, uh, and what do you call it, 1:01:40 and, uh, gauge, roughly speaking, you 1:01:43 know, uh, what, uh, certain figures, 1:01:47 you know, uh, and then, uh, how this is 1:01:51 then translated into, uh, what do you 1:01:54 call it, into, uh, long-term strategies 1:01:58 , you know. Now, but, uh, relying on, 1:02:03 uh, the current situation to read 1:02:05 future politics, you know, uh, that is 1:02:08 indeed, uh, very difficult, you know. 1:02:12 Uh, because, as we discussed earlier, 1:02:14 there are many factors that could 1:02:16 possibly influence that, you know. What 1:02:19 needs to be done by, uh, the government 1:02:21 is, uh, perhaps it is, uh, possible, 1:02:24 you know, to make improvements in the 1:02:26 remaining term of the government ahead, 1:02:28 you know. The government still has, uh, 1:02:32 half of, uh, what do you call it, more 1:02:34 than half of, uh, what do you call it, 1:02:37 its term in office, you know. There are 1:02:41 many things that, uh, can be done, you 1:02:43 know, to improve the situation, you 1:02:44 know. Uh, if, suppose, uh, the Prabowo 1:02:48 administration succeeds in doing that, 1:02:51 you know, uh, perhaps, uh, the public 1:02:54 will have hope again, uh, you know, uh, 1:02:57 give, uh, what do you call it, give, uh 1:02:59 , another chance, uh, to this 1:03:02 government to, uh, work for the next 5 1:03:05 years, you know. Uh, but if not, you 1:03:09 know, uh, assuming, uh, what do you 1:03:12 call it, uh, the election can run, uh, 1:03:15 fairly, you know, uh, perhaps, uh, the 1:03:18 public, uh, will direct their support 1:03:21 to, uh, other candidates, you know. Uh, 1:03:26 because of that, then this also becomes 1:03:29 a signal for the incumbent government, 1:03:32 you know, that they must do something, 1:03:34 you know, uh, what do you call it, the 1:03:37 best way, you know, to regain public 1:03:39 trust and votes is to deliver their 1:03:42 best performance to the people. That is 1:03:45 all, Bang. 1:03:47 >> Alright, thank you, Mr. Afri. Now, uh, 1:03:51 Mas Yohan, please give your closing 1:03:53 statement. Yes, with, uh, the results 1:03:57 of this survey of three names, actually 1:04:00 , if we look at it from a political 1:04:02 perspective, uh, it is positive, you 1:04:04 know, for the public, there are many 1:04:07 benefits, you know. So, on one hand, uh 1:04:10 , the public gets to know, uh, the 1:04:14 pulse of public desire regarding the 1:04:18 2024 election, it is like this, you 1:04:21 know. That is positive. On one hand, 1:04:24 this also becomes a challenge ahead of 1:04:26 the presidential election. Many things 1:04:29 could happen. But on one hand as a 1:04:36 public reference, you know. Whether the 1:04:39 track record over the next 3 years of 1:04:41 the names circulating at the top of the 1:04:44 survey will be able to strengthen their 1:04:46 electability or instead weaken it. The 1:04:51 same goes for the names that are not at 1:04:54 the top right now, will they be able to 1:04:56 build a positive track record so they 1:04:59 can then boost their names to the top 1:05:01 or will they actually sink? Yes, then 1:05:05 indeed these three names are the ones 1:05:07 that will circulate later. I think the 1:05:09 ones who benefit are still the public. 1:05:12 Well, the public will watch, will note, 1:05:15 and will record to what extent the 1:05:18 current political elite names seen in 1:05:21 the surveys will build a positive or 1:05:24 perhaps a negative track record over 1:05:27 the next three years. I think, because 1:05:32 this is still dynamic, I think the 1:05:35 public still has plenty of time to 1:05:38 evaluate, record, and note whether 1:05:41 these names are still viable in 2024 or 1:05:45 if other names will emerge. I think 1:05:49 that's all, Mas Hadi. Thank you for the 1:05:51 opportunity. Alright. Eh, thank you, 1:05:55 Mas Yohan. And lastly, Mr. Mardani, 1:05:57 please give your closing statement, sir 1:05:59 . Eh, I agree with Mas Yohan that the 1:06:04 more candidates there are and the more 1:06:07 competitive it is, the better, and 1:06:10 there is a law of public sentiment now. 1:06:15 Those who are unable to win the heart 1:06:17 and the public mind will have a hard 1:06:19 time. But looking at the experience of 1:06:25 Mr. SBY's second term and Mr. Jokowi's 1:06:27 second term, Mas Yohan and Mas Afri, 1:06:29 it's not just political party chairs 1:06:32 who have a chance. Civilian figures or 1:06:38 non-party figures have a chance; Mr. 1:06:42 SBY in his second term took Prof. 1:06:45 Boediono, Mr. Jokowi in his second term 1:06:49 took Kiai Ma'ruf Amin. That's why Mr. 1:06:54 Prabowo might not want to raise a tiger 1:06:56 cub, you know. Yes, if it's within 1:07:00 Gerindra, it's a bit risky. But if he 1:07:06 takes a public figure, it makes this 1:07:08 current edition interesting. The 1:07:11 current landscape, Mas Apri and Mas 1:07:13 Yohan. So it's not just party chairs 1:07:17 who must be visible, all parties must 1:07:19 be visible so they can be courted; Mr. 1:07:22 Prabowo will certainly look for a 1:07:25 deputy who makes Gerindra comfortable 1:07:28 in the future, you see. But party 1:07:32 chairs, including us at PKS, also need 1:07:35 to improve and prepare figures. Because 1:07:39 one indicator of a party's success is 1:07:42 being a melting pot for national 1:07:45 leadership cadre development. Hopefully 1:07:49 , our discussion tonight isn't too 1:07:52 early. Yes, it's true, Mas Yohan, this 1:07:55 is a bit early, but sometimes... 1:07:59 >> the momentum comes and it cannot be 1:08:01 ignored. For me, this is our moment to 1:08:06 discuss how national leadership is so 1:08:09 very, very influential, and we must be 1:08:12 truly careful, careful, careful, and 1:08:14 look for those who are humble. For me, 1:08:19 I don't want what makes me sad now. In 1:08:22 the principles of the ulema, "Sayyidul 1:08:25 qaumi khadimuhum," a leader of a people 1:08:28 is a servant to those people. And that 1:08:31 service is not just for Java, not just 1:08:34 for Sumatra, not just for Kalimantan, 1:08:37 not just for Sulawesi, not just for 1:08:39 Maluku, not just for Bali, not just for 1:08:42 NTB, NTT, not just for Papua, but for 1:08:44 all the people. Therefore, our prayer 1:08:48 is that this country will be blessed by 1:08:50 being given the best leaders, those who 1:08:53 are humble, statesmen who possess a 1:08:55 merit system and good technocratic 1:08:57 capabilities. Don't just be populist, 1:09:00 Bang Hali. 1:09:02 >> Alright, thank you, Mr. Mardani. Amen. 1:09:05 >> Eh, and Mas Yohan, Mas Afri. Our 1:09:07 discussion tonight serves as an opening 1:09:10 , uh, so that, uh, Indonesia has the 1:09:12 best leaders who love and serve their 1:09:15 people, who can provide solutions, who 1:09:18 are humble, who place the interests of 1:09:20 the nation and the people above all 1:09:22 else, yes, and can provide solutions 1:09:25 for all the problems of this nation. 1:09:28 Hopefully, by 2029, starting from today 1:09:30 , alternative leadership figures will 1:09:32 emerge. Whoever they are, from any 1:09:36 background, they do not need to have 1:09:38 vast resources, but their hearts must 1:09:41 be for the people, yes, and possess the 1:09:43 capability and competence to be able, 1:09:46 uh, to bring this nation to be even 1:09:48 better. Thank you and see you on the 1:09:51 Indonesia Dok program next week at the 1:09:53 same time and on the same channel. 1:09:55 Peace be upon you, and Allah's mercy 1:09:57 and blessings. 1:09:58 >> And peace be upon you, and Allah's 1:09:59 mercy and blessings. Brother Bang. 1:10:05 Thank you. 1:10:08 >> Peace be upon you all. 1:10:12 >> Masri. Yes, sir. 
