Transkrip diambil dari YouTube. Klik timestamp biru untuk melompat ke posisi tersebut di pemutar.
0:08 Brail TV 0:15 Let’s discuss, the Rocky Gerung land 0:17 issue: oligarchy versus land for the 0:19 people. Friends, although this may seem 0:25 like just a simple matter of land use 0:30 for a few individuals, the phenomenon 0:36 and case of the land in Sentul City 0:41 represent how the oligarchy treats the 0:46 people regarding land in Indonesia. And 0:52 it just so happens that the one 0:56 directly experiencing the impact is 1:01 Rocky Gerung, our friend and teacher, 1:05 who, whether by chance or design, has 1:10 become one of the victims of the 1:14 land-use rights issue in his 1:17 residential area. We want to hear 1:23 directly from the source, Rocky Gerung 1:26 himself, and we also want to look at 1:30 the state perspective on how this land 1:33 dispute issue actually stands. Tonight, 1:39 we are joined by Mr. Lius Sungkarisma. 1:43 Good evening, Mr. Lius. Mr. Lius 1:48 represents the people who have spoken 1:52 out against the oligarchy, and he also 1:55 just came from Rocky’s house. Perhaps 2:00 you could share your story and 2:02 perspective regarding the case 2:04 involving Rocky. Because this is not 2:08 just about one or two people, but it 2:11 represents a national issue we are 2:13 currently facing. Mr. Mardani Ali Sera 2:17 has also joined us. Assalamu'alaikum, 2:20 Mr. Mardani. 2:22 Hi, Mr. Mardani. As it happens, he is 2:24 in Commission Two 2:25 It's still muted, Mr. Lius. Oh, right. 2:28 Lius. 2:31 Mr. Mardani is currently in Commission 2:35 Two, which oversees land affairs and 2:38 partners with the National Land Agency, 2:42 and also deals with regulations 2:45 regarding land laws. We might be able 2:50 to hear his views as a member of the 2:53 DPR who has been discussing land issues 2:57 and, more broadly, the battle between 3:00 the oligarchy and the people's 3:02 sovereignty over their own land. 3:07 Alright, friends, before we dive into 3:11 the discussion with our guests, I would 3:15 first like to thank our loyal viewers 3:19 of Leader Talk, which can be watched 3:23 live every week via the YouTube 3:26 channels of Mardani Ali Sera, PKS TV, 3:31 and Rasil TV, as well as Mardani Ali 3:35 Sera’s Facebook page, and is also 3:38 broadcast live on Rasil 720 AM radio. 3:44 For friends who want to listen via 3:46 radio rather than live streaming, 3:49 especially those in the Jabodetabek 3:52 area, you can tune in to Rasil 720 AM. 3:58 I would also like to thank our 4:00 colleagues in the media and our 4:02 journalist friends who continue to 4:04 watch, join us, cover, and report on 4:06 our program, Leader Talk. Hopefully, 4:11 the presentations from our speakers 4:14 today can contribute to media coverage 4:17 for fellow journalists, serving as a 4:19 voice for the public and providing 4:22 input for policymakers in our country. 4:27 Alright, friends, let's begin our event 4:30 this evening. I invite Mr. Mardani to 4:34 provide an introduction and opening 4:37 remarks regarding our theme tonight: 4:40 Rocky Gerung's land, oligarchy versus 4:43 land for the people. Mr. Mardani, the 4:46 floor is yours. 4:47 Uncle Lius, I'll go first, if I may. 4:50 Yes, please, go ahead. I'll be home in 4:53 a moment. 4:55 Praise be to God. In the name of God, 4:57 the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. 4:58 Peace be upon you and God's mercy and 5:00 blessings. Praise be to God. O God, 5:04 send prayers upon our master Muhammad, 5:05 and thereafter. Good evening and peace 5:09 be upon us all. I am very happy to meet 5:13 with leaders and future leaders again, 5:16 because everything rises and falls on 5:19 leadership, right? Everything rises and 5:21 falls because of leadership. I always 5:24 cite the saying: 100 tigers led by a 5:28 sheep. They will all end up like sheep. 5:31 But 100 sheep led by one tiger. Those 5:37 sheep become tigers. It is these sheep 5:42 that are nurtured until the oligarchy 5:45 can milk all their blood and milk, 5:48 until eventually all the people and the 5:51 land are owned by the oligarchy. Yes, 5:55 because of that, the theme today is 5:57 interesting, although I want to clarify 6:00 , Uncle Lius and friends, this has 6:02 nothing to do with Bung Rocky's land. 6:06 Bung Rocky has never contacted me 6:08 asking for help with his land issues, 6:10 you know. Not at all. Bung Rocky is 6:14 already strong, and we pray he gets 6:16 stronger, and this case will actually 6:19 bring the power of truth to light so 6:22 that it can be truly solid in igniting 6:25 the spirit to protect our Indonesian 6:28 homeland. Friends, I would like to 6:32 convey three things. First, Article 33 6:39 is clear: the land, water, and natural 6:41 resources contained within, both 6:43 biological and non-biological, are 6:45 controlled by the state and used fully 6:47 for the prosperity of the people. That 6:50 is why the state is obligated to be 6:52 present to safeguard the land, water, 6:54 and natural wealth. And all of it must 6:58 be distributed to all Indonesian people 7:02 fairly to achieve prosperity. In this 7:07 context, a masterpiece was created by 7:12 our predecessors, the Basic Agrarian 7:18 Law of 1960. This is extraordinary in 7:22 providing a very strong foundation for 7:24 three things. First, realizing justice 7:28 in land affairs. Second, resolving land 7:32 issues. Third, using land as a tool for 7:35 public welfare. And that is what is 7:38 currently being fought for. We in 7:41 Commission II always remind the BPN, 7:43 the National Land Agency, which is now 7:46 simultaneously led by an ex-officio 7:48 chair. The head, the BPN Chair, is the 7:51 Minister of Agrarian Affairs and 7:53 Spatial Planning, so that these can be 7:55 resolved. There are indeed many 7:57 obstacles because our land Gini ratio 8:00 is very lopsided. How a small group 8:03 controls 67%of our land. If you look at 8:09 the map, 76%of our land is in the form 8:12 of forests. But no more than 5 to 10%at 8:18 most is still virgin land. The rest has 8:21 been granted HGU status, right. It has 8:25 been titled, granted to the average 8:28 entrepreneur, and until now we at 8:31 Commission II have not been able to 8:35 disclose who the HGU owners are. It has 8:40 been requested many times, so point one 8:44 there is an odor we need to uncover 8:47 regarding these land matters, yes. 8:52 There is an odor we need to address, 8:54 make transparent, and make accountable 8:56 so that this land is truly controlled 8:58 by the state and used fully for the 9:00 people's welfare. In this context, uh 9:06 there is extraordinary inequality. Even 9:10 in one set of data we received, 1 HGU 9:13 could be granted covering 2 million 9:16 hectares; 1 hectare is 10,000 square 9:19 meters, while your land, Bung Rocky, is 9:22 only 800 square meters. That's like 9:27 0.00, you know. So, there is something 9:32 we must uncover, and our theme must be 9:35 a shared concern because land, land, 9:38 and more land is a fundamental right 9:41 that the state must provide to families 9:45 . Yes, why? Because agrarian reform is 9:49 actually the heart of one of the 9:51 state's reasons for existing. Hernando 9:56 De Soto, a Latin economist and Nobel 9:58 laureate, said, "If a state loves its 10:01 people, then implement land 10:04 certification." The land certification 10:07 currently being done by the government 10:08 is quite good, yes. In 2017, 5 million 10:12 plots, in 2016, uh 2017 million plots, 10:17 and just recently in 2019, it peaked at 10:19 9 million plots. Some plots are 60 10:22 square meters, which, when compared to 10:24 2 million hectares, loses by a 10:26 landslide to the 2 million hectares. So 10:30 we must look at certification as one 10:33 thing, but agrarian reform must be 10:35 carried out. So, point one, I want to 10:40 say there is an odor that we must 10:42 uncover in these land affairs. Point 10:46 two, conceptually, agrarian reform has 10:49 two branches. One is agrarian reform 10:53 for assets, and two is agrarian reform 10:57 for access. Yes, agrarian reform for 11:00 assets is simply giving state land to 11:03 the people. It has begun, in the form 11:07 of social forestry, and we have started 11:09 taking back unused HGU land and giving 11:11 it to the people, but in the form of 11:13 cooperatives. Indeed, we cannot yet 11:16 give it to individuals because 11:18 sometimes there is a note we have to 11:21 consider. The note is that if the land 11:24 is given personally, what happens is 11:26 that the land will be bought and sold. 11:29 In the end, the certification that 11:31 occurs actually accelerates the 11:33 transfer of land transactions from the 11:35 poor to the rich, from villagers to 11:36 city dwellers. That is why it is 11:39 organized in the form of cooperatives 11:41 or communities. Now, what must not be 11:44 lost is that it’s not just about 11:46 dividing up the land. That is agrarian 11:49 reform in terms of assets. But the 11:52 second is agrarian reform in terms of 11:54 access. People who already have that 11:56 land are mapped out. Does it suit 11:59 agriculture, does it suit plantations, 12:01 or does it suit livestock? Does it 12:04 perhaps suit industry, agro-industry, 12:07 or does it perhaps suit trade? Now, 12:10 once mapped out, then skills are 12:12 provided, yes. For those who just 12:16 received land, actually what Mr. Harto 12:19 did with transmigration was quite good, 12:22 4 hectares is decent. But what is 12:26 lacking is the access reform, which is 12:29 what Malaysia succeeded in doing. The 12:32 transmigration program in Malaysia was 12:33 successful. Because they weren't just 12:37 given palm oil land; cooperatives were 12:41 formed, and mini CPO processing 12:44 factories were built, so within 20 12:47 years of transmigrating, they became 12:50 the new rich on average. That was when 12:54 the state was present in the form of 12:56 reform, agrarian reform in terms of 12:58 assets—land was given—and agrarian 13:00 reform in terms of access. Yes. Now, 13:03 both must go hand in hand. 13:04 Unfortunately, the current focus is 13:06 still somewhat on PTSL, the complete 13:09 systematic land registration, yes, 13:11 certification. Well, it actually needs 13:13 to be more than that. Lastly, the third 13:18 point, land issues will always spark 13:24 greed and illegal, improper control. 13:30 Yes, that is why land conflicts will 13:33 always exist. I once went to Bali, to 13:37 Udayana University. Every year Udayana 13:42 University is sued by land mafias 13:45 because that is how land in Bali is. So 13:50 Udayana has thousands of hectares, and 13:52 they are trying to take them one by one 13:54 . Some use fake certificates, and 13:57 various other ways. But in every land 14:02 case where, let's say, the state—be 14:04 it central government, local government 14:07 , or state-owned institutions—is 14:09 against these people in court, they 14:11 always lose, the majority lose, and in 14:14 the end, the land is taken. Now, this 14:19 is what is happening, and this land 14:21 conflict must be exposed, dismantled, 14:23 and mapped out. It will become clear 14:28 that, as the saying goes, the murky 14:30 pond must be drained first. Then it 14:33 will be clear who the oligarchs playing 14:35 the game are. Hopefully, Rocky Gerung's 14:40 land case will be the entry point to 14:44 drain the murky water covering the 14:48 oligarchs so we can see who the 14:52 oligarchs are, filled with greed and a 14:56 desire to profit through improper means 15:01 . And for that, let's keep guarding 15:05 Bung Rocky's case because this is just 15:08 the tip of the iceberg. There are many 15:12 others—thankfully Bung Rocky is on 15:15 the radar. Bung Dino Patti Djalal is on 15:18 the radar, but there are thousands, 15:20 perhaps tens of thousands of people who 15:22 are not on the radar. According to data 15:25 compiled by our friends, more than 15:27 hundreds of people have died over these 15:30 land issues, and one life cannot be 15:33 replaced by thousands of hectares. 15:36 Therefore, land cases must be 15:38 completely, straightforwardly, and 15:41 clearly dismantled so that justice can 15:44 be obtained for all our people. That is 15:47 all from me as an introduction, Bang 15:49 Haldi. Hopefully, it can spark a 15:51 discussion. Assalamu'alaikum. 15:53 Warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. 15:55 Wa'alaikumussalam. Thank you, Mr. 15:59 Mardani, for opening our discussion, 16:02 and we are also joined by Bung Rocky 16:04 Gerung, our main guest tonight. 16:07 Hello, Bro. 16:08 Hello, Bro. 16:09 This is the most absurd IT here. 16:18 Yeah. Welcome, Bung Rocky. Now we would 16:25 like to hear Pak Lius's perspective 16:28 regarding the issues concerning Bung 16:31 Rocky's land and the surrounding 16:34 community in Sentul. How does Bung Lius 16:38 see this from the perspective of the 16:42 people witnessing the oligarchy's 16:46 behavior that is clearly unfolding? 16:51 Right, I...I am very happy to have just 16:58 heard Pak Mardani Ali Sera's statement. 17:02 As it happens, I...experienced it. But 17:09 before this, if I may, I will speak 17:12 briefly because I will be home soon and 17:16 it will be more comfortable. I want to 17:19 talk about... 17:20 our discussion, our advocacy. I 17:24 emphasize that this is not about 17:25 defending Rocky Gerung. In my view, 17:29 Rocky Gerung is like a hermit. A hermit 17:34 isn't afraid of his house being 17:35 demolished; he is no longer worried 17:37 about where he lives. But the problem 17:40 is... 17:44 the problem is that this serves as an 17:46 example where cases like the one 17:47 befalling Rocky Gerung are happening 17:49 everywhere across our country. There 17:54 are many developers, the so-called 17:56 oligarchs, who are truly greedy. Okay. 18:00 If not greedy, what is a more polite 18:02 way to put it? They want huge profits 18:06 with small capital and high returns. So 18:10 they use any means necessary. Now, I 18:14 think this should not exist anymore. It 18:18 has been 76 years of Indonesia's 18:20 independence; how can we let this 18:22 continue? Anyway, I am glad that forums 18:26 like this exist. So, I think I will 18:32 sign off for now. I will join back in 5 18:37 minutes. It will be better then. Yes, 18:41 please excuse me. 18:41 Thank you. 18:42 Take care. Take care. 18:44 Alright, let's go. 18:45 Ready. Thank you, Om Lius, we will join 18:48 back with you later. Now, we want to 18:50 hear how...we... 18:59 the main victim... 19:00 the primary victim... 19:04 must not be, what is it, one must not 19:06 feel like a victim but instead become 19:09 the attacker. 19:12 Yes, because I am in a desperate 19:14 position, I must attack. 19:15 Oh, I see. Yes, how is it that there is 19:20 an attack. Okay. Also, why is ILC 19:26 bringing up my case? But I will not 19:31 talk about my case. I will talk about 19:34 the philosophical legal problem of our 19:38 land system. Now, my case is actually, 19:43 as mentioned, just being used as...a 19:48 ground to process our land law politics 19:53 . Now, certainly, friends have already 19:58 heard from the mass media. But what I 20:02 have always worried about is the bias 20:05 from civil society that keeps bullying 20:08 me, assuming I stole someone's land. 20:13 Even though all the papers regarding 20:14 the purchase exist, there was no theft 20:15 involved. Now, I suspect that figures 20:21 like Ade Armando, what is his name, and 20:25 who else? Ngabalin, they are rejoicing. 20:33 They see it as momentum to strike at me 20:35 . Then I was told that I am being 20:37 cursed by God. That is because I often 20:40 criticize Jokowi. 20:42 Good heavens. 20:44 But does God really use capitalists to 20:47 curse the people? Their logic is quite 20:50 magical, isn't it? Behind me, I was 20:54 just meeting with community leaders, 20:57 representing about 300 families who are 20:59 living in fear because rumors keep 21:02 circulating that this land is under HGU 21:05 , HGB, and all those terms, and they 21:08 immediately compare it with, uh...the 21:13 legal status of TEL. So, it's assumed 21:15 that if someone has an HGB, they are 21:16 allowed to evict those with cultivation 21:18 rights. Whereas, in reality, HGB comes 21:20 from cultivation rights. If they 21:22 haven't cultivated it yet but already 21:23 have an HGB, that means they are 21:25 thieves. That’s the core of it, right 21:26 ? And we know that land cannot be owned 21:29 , not even by the state. No state owns 21:31 land. So, the concept of "state-owned 21:32 land" doesn't exist. The state controls 21:35 the land; the state manages the land 21:38 for distribution. So, the philosophy of 21:41 agrarian law was correct, Mr. Merdani. 21:44 The state does not have rights over the 21:45 land. Where would the state have rights 21:47 over land? Owning land? Yes, that only 21:49 exists in communist countries. The 21:52 problem here is that people don't 21:54 understand the basics. They act as if 21:57 property rights are rights to own the 21:59 land, not rights over the land. Rights 22:02 over the land mean you don't own the 22:04 soil itself, but the right to build a 22:06 business or construct buildings. For 22:09 example, let's take Sentul City; they 22:10 claim to have an HGB. That is what they 22:12 claim. What we are questioning is, 22:13 where did you get the HGB from? An HGB 22:15 is obtained only after the people’s 22:16 consent. "Okay, go ahead, uh, take my 22:19 land, cultivate it, I'll sell it for 22:21 this much." They suddenly show up 22:24 claiming they have an HGB, even though 22:26 there was no consent. From the people 22:27 who cultivate the land. Now, the 22:29 ridiculous thing is these dim-witted 22:32 political trolls and Cokro TV, who are 22:34 truly foolish. They are using this 22:37 momentum to oust me from the ranks of, 22:40 uh, Mardani Ali Sera's group, right? 22:43 Even though I am on the same side in 22:46 the effort to achieve justice. So they 22:49 are insulting 6,000 people. Ade Armando 22:51 is insulting 6,000 people. Ngabalin is 22:53 insulting 6,000 people. They are 22:55 considered land encroachers. Because 22:56 their status is the same as mine, as 22:58 cultivators. Am I allowed to get a 23:00 certificate? I am trying to obtain a 23:02 certificate in a reasonable way by 23:04 reporting it to the BPN. Okay, I want 23:06 to get a certificate, right? I'm 23:08 upgrading it so, uh, the status of the 23:10 land can be commercialized. That's 23:12 pretty much why it gets rejected. Then 23:15 the 6,000 others are also rejected. 23:18 Suddenly, HGB comes along. HGB and all 23:22 the rights derived from cultivation 23:25 rights are based on what is called the 23:28 philosophy of physical possession. 23:32 Physical possession is not about 23:34 seizing. Physical possession means that 23:37 the land is physically utilized, 23:39 cultivated, worked on, and cared for. 23:42 That is what we call physical 23:44 possession, which might not be 23:45 translated correctly in Indonesian. But 23:48 we know that rights arise from the work 23:51 we put into the object, which is the 23:53 land. So if Sentul City comes with a 23:57 claim that they have 3 million hectares 23:59 , but they haven't built a single 24:00 structure there—it’s even become 24:02 abandoned land—while others only have 24:04 60 square meters and are begging the 24:06 BPN, but it never gets issued, that’s 24:08 just wrong. That means the claims made 24:12 by, uh, Sentul City are false, 24:15 ethically false. So they seize the land 24:19 and then imply that no one else is 24:21 allowed to, uh, live there. Even though 24:24 they are seizing it by bringing in HGU, 24:26 right to cultivate, or HGB, right to 24:29 build, which are basically plotted on 24:31 paper without being surveyed. Without 24:34 asking permission from the actual 24:35 landowners. "I want to survey this 24:36 because I'm interested in your land," 24:38 but you are just a squatter, sir. So, 24:40 at my place, there are squatters whose 24:43 fathers have been in Sentul since '35. 24:47 Imagine, for example, if Sentul claims 24:50 it owns it, that means Sentul's, uh, 24:52 main commissioner is, uh, Daendels or 24:55 Van Hook? That kind of thinking is 24:57 ridiculous. So we want to see, what I'm 25:00 actually concerned about is that civil 25:02 society, which should defend the people 25:04 , is defending Sentul City. Go ahead, 25:06 Sentul City, evict Rocky Gerung. Okay, 25:09 if I'm just evicted, fine, I can pitch 25:10 a tent, I'm used to living in the 25:12 forest. But by doing that, they are 25:15 also saying, "Evict the 6,000 people in 25:17 that, uh, village." Then people say, " 25:19 Rocky is using, uh, the names of 6,000 25:21 people." No. They indeed have the same 25:23 rights with the same legal basis as 25:26 cultivators. I just met, uh, with a 25:29 cultivator earlier. Every, uh, three 25:33 years, he, uh, waits for the expiration 25:37 of the HGU or HGB rights from Sentul. 25:41 Then he goes to the National Land 25:42 Agency (BPN). He knows that Sentul's 25:45 rights have ended, so it should be 25:47 returned to the state. This man, who 25:51 has been in Sentul since 1935, applied 25:54 for, uh, a request for certification, 25:57 but BPN refused. Suddenly, Sentul gets 26:02 it. How does that happen? The primary 26:04 right belongs to the cultivator. Return 26:07 it to the state first, then the state, 26:09 uh, declares that this right has been 26:11 freed from Sentul City. "Anyone who 26:13 wants a certificate, go ahead." He went 26:14 back, and still, he couldn't get it. 26:16 Suddenly, they get the HGU from, uh, 26:20 BPN. So that is actually the absurdity 26:22 of our, uh, land system, and more than 26:25 that, the absurdity of these dim-witted 26:27 fanboys. Actually, I don't need to say 26:29 dim-witted. But there aren't any smart 26:31 fanboys either. So I'll keep the 26:32 adjective "dim-witted fanboys." Let me 26:35 give you another example. There is a 26:37 person who says he is, uh, an educator, 26:41 a PhD, a doctor in architecture and 26:45 land science. He teaches at Gadjah Mada 26:48 University. He sent a letter to me, an 26:51 open letter to Mr. Rocky Gerung. He 26:53 says he is, uh, the chairman of the 26:58 expert council for Jokowi's National 27:00 Secretariat (Seknas). Then he says this 27:03 , "Brother Rocky Gerung, you are cursed 27:06 because you criticize Jokowi." Imagine 27:09 an educated person, a PhD, a doctor, 27:11 doing that kind of framing, and he 27:14 clearly states, "I am the chairman of 27:16 Jokowi's expert council." So he really 27:19 wants to politicize this situation. So 27:22 he assumes that those 6,000 people are 27:24 also cursed by God. Even among those 27:26 6,000 people, there must have been 27:28 Jokowi supporters, surely. So, are 27:30 Jokowi supporters also cursed by God? 27:32 And for what? Just because they support 27:34 Jokowi, is that it? This is actually 27:36 the ridiculous logic that I am 27:38 currently observing. I’m just happy, 27:40 I have no problem with a place to sleep 27:43 , a place to rest, or a house; I can 27:45 get those anywhere. But what I want to 27:48 explain is that even civil society, who 27:50 should be pushing for agrarian reform, 27:53 is siding with developers—it's 27:54 bizarre, right? Another example is 27:58 Gunawan Muhammad, a famous cultural 28:00 figure, senior journalist, and social 28:03 thinker who has been mingling with the 28:05 public for decades. He made a post on 28:09 his Instagram, and people sent it to me 28:12 , saying that Rocky's "crooked" problem 28:14 isn't a national disaster. Just imagine 28:18 that level of stupidity. So, 6,000 28:21 people in Sentul being evicted is not a 28:23 national disaster? 700,000 people on 28:27 the islands in those mentioned 76 28:29 million hectares who are to be evicted 28:32 —that’s also not a national 28:35 disaster? Gunawan Muhammad's 28:38 capabilities have finally been 28:40 nullified by his bootlicking of power. 28:44 He hates me, so he bullies me, acting 28:46 as if this isn't a national disaster; 28:47 it’s neither a national disaster nor 28:49 a "sideline note." So, that stupidity 28:54 has finally permeated all circles. Even 28:58 someone we thought understood 29:00 civilization turned out to be 29:02 incredibly foolish, that Gunawan 29:04 Muhammad. It’s clear he forgot that 29:09 his own house was once sued by a large 29:11 developer, which was then reported in 29:13 Tempo magazine, the magazine he owns. 29:17 That was also a conflict of interest. 29:19 But okay, we defended him because we 29:20 thought that Gunawan Muhammad was 29:22 actually in the right. So now, he has 29:24 turned against me. Why did he turn? 29:26 Because before, Gunawan's brain was 29:29 longer than his tongue. Now, his tongue 29:31 is longer than his brain. It’s longer 29:33 than his reason. Because his sycophancy 29:35 is extraordinary. That's how I see it. 29:36 So compare this situation; the moral 29:39 decay precedes or is greater than the 29:42 legal damage regarding my land or the 29:44 land in Sentul. So many people finally 29:48 got the opportunity to bash me. But I 29:51 think, well, it doesn't matter. Because 29:53 we finally see, what do you call it? An 29:56 individual's intellectual limit—the 29:59 moment they kiss the feet of power, 30:01 their entire brain shifts to their 30:03 knees. That is what happened to Gunawan 30:05 Muhammad. That is what happened to 30:07 those lecturers at Gadjah Mada 30:09 University who hold PhD titles, yet 30:12 their only thought process is just to 30:14 accept and insult me, saying I am 30:16 cursed. Likewise, that Cokro TV group 30:19 with Armando and his peers. So I 30:22 strongly suspect that people like this, 30:25 especially Cokro TV, are indeed 30:27 spreading negativity about me. Now, 30:31 this video result—this YouTube result 30:33 of theirs—they went to Sentul City 30:36 and said, "We’ve bashed Rocky, how 30:38 much was the transfer?" turning it into 30:42 small change; imagine, the funding for 30:45 that is on Cokro TV too, that's the 30:48 point. So before I, uh, reveal any more 30:52 stupidity, okay, let me pause for a 30:54 moment. Okay. 30:58 Thanks, bro. Alright. Thanks, bro. Bung 31:00 Rocky. Now, let's... 31:02 Lius, Lius was just at my place earlier 31:04 . 31:04 Yes. Go ahead, Uncle Lius, it's your 31:07 turn. 31:07 That's absolutely true. This isn't just 31:10 about Rocky Gerung. In my opinion, God 31:14 provides a way, piled onto Rocky. After 31:21 all, he is a famous person. It just 31:23 became a big deal, and everyone is 31:25 watching. Now, the bullying is unfair 31:29 in my view; that's not the context. I 31:32 said earlier, Rocky is like a hermit. 31:37 He doesn't depend on a room. He can 31:40 live in nature as well. But the farmers 31:44 who came to Rocky's house that I met, 31:47 their story is truly heartbreaking. Why 31:53 does the state just let this happen? 31:57 How did Sentul City get a 1,000-hectare 32:00 plantation land use permit? Why? Who do 32:06 they think they are? When they got it, 32:10 it was just a decree. They should have 32:13 cleared it with the residents there if 32:15 they wanted to build. But now, they 32:19 just act as they please, putting up 32:21 signs and claiming it's theirs. 32:24 Actually, this is the momentum, in my 32:27 opinion, it's God's way. Fix this, Mr. 32:31 Jokowi, you have 3 years left. I ask 32:35 Mr. Jokowi to step in. Rudi Kamri said, 32:40 "Sir, it's a small matter." He doesn't 32:43 seem to understand. This is a land 32:45 issue, a major issue. Alisera already 32:51 said, a handful of people own millions 32:54 of hectares. While farmers have no land 32:59 , and their ancestors are buried there. 33:03 It’s a pity if they are evicted. I 33:07 see that Sentul should be developed. If 33:11 you give it to farmers, guide them, 33:14 like the model of Rocky Gerung's home. 33:20 From an empty cliff, he planted trees 33:22 and it became a forest. 33:25 That's a fantastic tourist area. If all 33:28 the farmers there were guided to plant 33:31 vegetables and fruits. Rocky Gerung has 33:35 every type of plant there. Imagine if 33:40 he were given 20 hectares, it would be 33:43 extraordinary, unlike being given—ugh 33:47 , I don't feel right saying that. 33:50 Businessmen, don't be too greedy. 33:56 Remember, in our 76 years of 33:58 independence, the rich ones mostly got 34:01 it from the state. Decrees from the 34:09 state for land, forests, mines—so if 34:13 you're rich, remember that. Don't keep 34:18 terrorizing the people. Why do I say 34:22 terrorized? The sound of bulldozers, 34:26 backhoes, rumbling, coming to destroy. 34:30 I saw one villa there. They had a 34:33 temporary building permit. That person 34:35 from Manado, I saw them on TV1, their 34:38 case was already in court. They sued in 34:41 court. All they wanted was for the 34:43 court to decide first. Whoever wins, 34:45 then you evict. But no, they sent thugs 34:50 and bulldozers to finish it. Now, the 34:54 state must step in for things like this 34:56 . I am glad that Mr. Mardani in 34:59 Commission II has started speaking up 35:02 and initiated this event. This is good. 35:07 But I don't know what those people over 35:10 there have against Rocky Gerung. Huh? 35:15 They say, "Oh, this is Rocky Gerung." 35:17 All sorts of things. Basically, I think 35:20 it's inappropriate; we must care about 35:23 these evicted people. Our concern must 35:28 be for the oppressed people, regardless 35:31 of who they supported before. Yes, I 35:37 also in 2019, I wanted a change of 35:42 president. Mr. Jokowi still has 3 years 35:49 left. Don't just let it be. Don't say 35:53 this is a small matter. This is a big 35:55 matter. Because Sentul can serve as a 35:58 role model. Mr. Mardani. That is 36:02 extraordinary, sir. What you expressed 36:05 earlier gives hope. I have experience, 36:08 you know, sir. I have experience. I 36:12 want to approach Mr. Sofyan Djalil 36:14 later. I also have an HGU (Right to 36:18 Cultivate). 720 hectares. When I wanted 36:23 to extend it, the regent asked for 100 36:26 hectares. I didn't give it to him. What 36:29 for, sir? 100 hectares. Oh, to build a 36:31 village, to build a terminal. I'm the 36:33 one who will build it. Because I didn't 36:36 give it, he didn't extend it. I just 36:39 let it be. Because why? I see the 36:42 residents there planting. Let them live 36:47 , just let them live. Because sometimes 36:50 I feel sad when people say Indonesians 36:53 are lazy. Lazy? In what way? If you see 36:57 them early in the morning in Glodok, 36:59 the vegetable sellers are diligent. 37:01 They are already working. Huh? We see 37:03 farmers; as soon as they see empty land 37:06 , they plant on it. No matter whose 37:08 land it is, they plant cassava. In 37:11 gardening, they call that intercropping 37:13 . People like this must be supported. 37:19 So, in short, I met the Minister, and I 37:23 said, "Sir, regarding my land, my 720- 37:26 hectare HGU, give 320 hectares to the 37:30 people living there and make 37:32 certificates for them." And I also 37:37 advised, "Sir, don't give it to 37:39 individuals." 37:44 Because experience shows many 37:46 plantations are given to the community, 37:49 certificates of ownership are made, and 37:52 by the next day, it all ends up with 37:54 city people. 37:57 Sold again. So, I agree that it must be 38:00 fostered. The government must care if 38:03 the people don't understand because 38:06 there's no guidance. They have no 38:10 guidance, so foster them, teach them to 38:11 form a cooperative. Our economic pillar 38:15 is the cooperative; let's push this. So 38:19 , Mr. Mardani, I am in complete 38:20 agreement with that. Now, about Sentul. 38:24 If in Sukabumi, in Warung Kiara, we can 38:27 distribute 320 hectares to the 38:30 community. Why can't Sentul do it? Try 38:36 to organize it. Hey, entrepreneurs, 38:39 don't be too greedy. Ah, you claim 38:42 1,000, just take 400. 400 hectares is 38:46 already huge. The rest, let the 38:49 community organize it, so that the 38:51 needy, those farmers who have lived 38:53 there since before Indonesia's 38:55 independence. In 1935 he said, "My 39:00 grandfather already lived there, Mr. 39:03 Lius. I was born here. My grandfather's 39:08 grave, we didn't have a public cemetery 39:11 , it was still near the house." If we 39:15 don't give things like that, what is 39:18 this country for? Don't tell me it's 39:22 only for the rich. Now, this should be 39:25 an example. As long as Rocky Gerung has 39:30 a reputation, I think he is sincere too 39:34 . If his tongue is sharp, those 39:36 affected are usually the ones with a 39:38 guilty conscience. So they get angry. 39:44 Whatever they call me, I don't get 39:45 angry because I have no guilt. That 39:50 Deni Siregar said there was a Chinese 39:53 person claiming to be close to the FPI 39:56 calling and asking for money. I just 39:59 laughed. He wrote "this is Lius," right 40:03 . So it was directed at me, but it's 40:06 obvious because I don't feel involved. 40:10 So I feel like, this Bung Rocky Gerung, 40:14 if he speaks and hits a nerve, people 40:17 get angry. Like Gunawan Muhammad 40:20 earlier. I used to admire Gunawan 40:23 Muhammad too. But if he takes sides, 40:29 takes the side of Sentul City, it’s 40:31 disappointing. Everyone should take the 40:35 side of the people. But don't kill off 40:38 Sentul City. We shouldn't kill them off 40:41 either. We invite them, "Hey, don't act 40:45 like a thug, calling up gangsters. 40:49 Don't act like you can just use 40:51 bulldozers and backhoes to tear down 40:53 people's houses. Don't." That should be 40:57 managed by the state. I see that hasn't 41:01 happened yet. Instead, it’s those of 41:04 us who care that show up. Now, if one 41:08 village demonstrated, someone already 41:12 said, "Wow, if the Regent or Governor 41:17 or government don't care, we pass by 41:21 here every day. Mr. Prabowo. He wanted 41:29 to hold up a sign saying 'Mr. Prabowo, 41:32 please help us.'""Oh, don't do that. 41:36 That's not me.""Then where else can we 41:40 go, sir?" It's true that Mr. Prabowo's 41:43 house is nearby and they pass by there 41:45 every day. Just look. It's a pity, 41:48 isn't it, for the little people. They 41:50 say, "We're stressed, sir." Hearing 41:52 that makes you want to cry. I said, " 41:55 There's no need to go that far. This 41:58 will be resolved." Because I still 42:01 believe that Mr. Jokowi, if he wants to 42:04 , can fix this in these 3 years. 42:08 Especially since Mr. Mardani Ali Sera, 42:10 even if his party is different, an 42:11 opposition party, don't treat them as 42:13 enemies, listen to them, ask, "What is 42:19 not quite right here?" That would be 42:22 top-tier. Don't just—Oh my, 42:26 everything is just praised. What about 42:33 the people? Ah, that's enough. 42:40 Uncle Lius. Thank you, Uncle Lius. Cool 42:42 . 42:43 Thanks, Uncle Lius. This is 42:44 extraordinary, Uncle Lius. 42:47 Ah, that's enough. Yes, Teh. This is 42:49 the climax, 42:53 Uncle Lius here heals my longing for 42:56 Mr. Kikianggi. 42:59 Yes. Yes. Now, okay. Alright, Mr. 43:03 Mardani. Earlier, Bung Rocky explained 43:07 his experience and his perspective, as 43:09 well as Om Lius '. Now, let's look at 43:12 this from the House of Representatives' 43:14 point of view, sir. First, how is the 43:18 House advocating for this issue, given 43:21 that so many citizens are facing 43:24 developers or oligarchs, and what is 43:27 the most appropriate role for the state 43:30 in this? Second, regarding these HGU 43:35 land rights, is this just the tip of 43:40 the iceberg where state assets are 43:44 controlled by a few parties without 43:48 directly benefiting the prosperity of 43:53 the masses, but only serving a few, 43:58 which disturbs the public's sense of 44:01 justice? What do you think, Mr. 44:03 Maruarar? 44:05 Well, in Commission II of the House, in 44:11 the 3 months we opened a desk for land 44:15 conflict complaints, we received no 44:19 less than 427 files, and the majority 44:23 involved corporations trying to take 44:27 people's land. It’s a classic case of 44:31 David versus Goliath. And it turns out 44:36 that, on average, these corporations 44:39 have backups—legal teams that handle 44:43 the formal, structural, and legal 44:47 aspects. Because they have the ability 44:52 to craft a narrative or make their 44:55 business appear legal. This is the 44:59 point where the House always speaks up, 45:02 but indeed, our friends at the National 45:04 Land Agency (BPN) need to have a 45:06 conscience. And especially, if Om Lius 45:10 mentioned President Jokowi, in my 45:12 opinion, all leaders know that land is 45:15 a fundamental right that should be 45:17 owned by the people. The constitution 45:23 mandates protecting the entire nation 45:26 and the entire blood, soil, and people 45:29 of Indonesia. Yes, we need to address 45:33 this; from the start, I said this has 45:35 nothing to do with Bung Rocky. I agree 45:38 with Om Lius, Bung Rocky doesn't need 45:40 defending, he's already strong, he's 45:42 like a hermit. And we just need to see 45:45 his resilience. Yes, God willing, he 45:51 will remain steadfast. But I just want 45:55 to view this as the tip of the iceberg 45:58 of injustice, state absenteeism, and 46:01 blatant oppression. We must dismantle 46:05 this, fight it, and expose it 46:07 transparently and accountably. If we 46:11 use a procedural and formal approach, 46:15 there is a high chance of losing. 46:21 Because, let alone Bung Rocky, as we 46:24 saw, the Udayana case is a mirror of 46:27 all state institutions. Whenever it's 46:31 the state versus corporations, the 46:34 mafia, or oligarchs—and the state 46:36 here could mean the central government, 46:39 provincial, regency, city, or public 46:42 universities—in court, they always 46:44 lose, lose, and lose again. So, this 46:48 must be a cancer that we excise, that 46:52 we must radiate and treat with 46:54 chemotherapy so that no one dares to do 46:58 it again. Yes, actually, one of the 47:02 things the state is currently doing is 47:04 carrying out mapping. But we do still 47:08 have a problem. Our land management 47:11 system still has, uh, two maps; there's 47:14 a map at the Ministry of Forestry where 47:16 most of it is forest, even though now 47:18 there are cities, and millions of 47:20 people living there, but on the 47:22 forestry map, it's still marked as 47:24 forest. Meanwhile, our friends in the 47:28 agrarian sector are trying to create a 47:29 map, and conflicts often arise between 47:31 the agrarian and forestry maps. And 47:33 this is a major issue that we must 47:35 dismantle. The Muroki land case 47:39 provides another nuance, that there are 47:42 groups who, through certain means, 47:45 obtain extraordinary land use rights ( 47:48 HGU), and that needs to be addressed 47:51 and exposed so there is no more 47:54 injustice. That the land, water, and 47:58 earth are controlled by the state to be 48:00 used fully for the prosperity of the 48:02 people. That is so, Bang Ali. 48:05 Very well. Thank you, Mr. Merani. Now I 48:08 want to turn to Muroki. Muroki is just 48:12 one in a series of blatant and 48:14 barefaced authoritarian actions 48:16 displayed by the oligarchy. Along with 48:21 this case, the KPK is finally 48:23 dismissing several employees considered 48:26 to have failed the civic knowledge test 48:29 (TWK), right? Then, previously, we saw 48:34 authoritarian actions leading to the 48:37 loss of six FPI members 'lives and 48:39 several other authoritarian acts that 48:42 deeply disturbed the public conscience. 48:46 Now, this continues to happen, Mr. Roki 48:49 , and how do you see that it seems as 48:52 if those who should be responsible are 48:56 silencing all of this? 48:59 History always provides all the 49:02 variables, and we are currently in that 49:06 very momentum. The momentum to cleanse 49:10 this nation of ethical flaws. Just 49:14 imagine, for instance, people 49:17 accidentally discovered that the 49:19 President Commissioner of Sentul City 49:22 is Ms. Basaria Panjaitan. Ms. Basaria 49:26 Panjaitan is a commissioner, uh. The 49:30 KPK, she was a KPK commissioner. And we 49:34 know that there is an absolute ethical 49:37 standard for the KPK, which is to avoid 49:40 any conflict of interest. That even 49:44 serves as a measure of statesmanship. 49:47 Now, for any reason, people are asking, 49:49 why is Ms. Basaria at Sentul City? The 49:53 question arises because the former 49:57 President Director or owner of Sentul 50:00 City was jailed by the KPK and 50:03 sentenced to 6.5 years, sorry, charged 50:07 with 6.5 years, sentenced to 5 years, 50:11 and ultimately had it reduced to 2.5 50:14 years. Now, people are finally linking 50:18 all these Sentul problems to that 50:21 background belief mentioned earlier. 50:25 What is Ms. Basaria doing there? We are 50:27 not accusing, of course, regarding 50:28 those matters. But public ethical 50:30 awareness is catching on. Because it is 50:34 a package deal, people think, why is it 50:36 so unfair? A commissioner, right after 50:41 finishing their term at the KPK, can 50:44 easily be absorbed into a large 50:46 property company. And there is a 50:50 commissioner who, on the same day we 50:53 are arguing about Sentul City, is being 50:56 fired from the KPK. But people ask, 50:59 where are the ethical standards? Where 51:00 is the integrity? Why was Novel 51:02 Baswedan fired? Even though he actually 51:05 still had the investigation warrants ( 51:07 sprindik) for several key officials in 51:08 his pocket. While Mrs. Basaria is in 51:12 Solo City. People are making 51:14 comparisons. I know that Mrs. Basaria 51:17 certainly has professionalism, but the 51:20 public eye always views things with 51:22 suspicion. Why is that? Because from 51:26 the start, we have lived within a 51:28 theory called elite conspiracy. That is 51:31 at the top level. A sort of exchange of 51:35 information, hiding facts among the 51:38 elite, and that is essentially why 51:40 people live in a state of political 51:43 suspicion. So, once again, we are in a 51:47 new chapter of history, namely the 51:50 emergence of all kinds of crimes 51:52 exposed through this Central City case. 51:56 Including these foolish propagandists 51:58 who turn out to be paid by the 52:00 oligarchy, because when faced with the 52:02 most radical test, the ethical test, 52:04 they do not side with the people. Cokro 52:07 TV does not side with the people. 52:09 Gunawan Muhammad does not side with the 52:10 people. Ngabalin does not side with the 52:12 people. So their hatred for me makes 52:15 them blind to the suffering of the 52:16 people. Yet, why hate me? I just 52:20 formulate arguments. My job every day 52:22 is just crafting those sentences. I 52:24 have no hatred for the president. The 52:26 president is a friend as a fellow 52:28 citizen. But I hammer his policies 52:31 because the policies are stupid. That 52:34 is the point, isn't it? So, standard 52:36 things are then considered as hating 52:37 the president. How can the phrase " 52:39 hating the president" even exist? The 52:41 president is not just a person. The 52:43 president is an institution. He does 52:46 not have the capacity to be ethically 52:49 offended. If it is Mr. Jokowi, we must 52:54 protect his moral and ethical integrity 52:56 as a person, but as a president, he is 52:59 open to criticism, even harsh mockery. 53:02 As long as you don't commit crimes 53:04 against the head of state, because that 53:05 violates the law. But criticizing 53:07 policy is the first principle of 53:09 democracy. So, once again, 53:12 theoretically, we want this land issue 53:15 to be resolved and not just by 53:17 distributing certificates as Mr. Jokowi 53:20 often does. As soon as Mr. Jokowi 53:22 returns to Jakarta, the certificates 53:24 are taken back. That is just 53:25 disrespectful, isn't it? We highlight 53:28 that the primary human right is to be 53:31 connected to one's land. One gets dirty 53:35 with the soil because it is from the 53:37 soil that one was formed by God, when 53:39 the spirit was breathed into them. And 53:42 we all received the same spirit. 53:44 Suddenly, that spirit breathed into us 53:47 is now measured by the hectare. How 53:50 many hectares of the spirit from God do 53:52 you have to be entitled to live? How 53:54 can we humanize a new civilization if 53:57 such things are not understood by these 54:00 foolish propagandists? The president 54:03 certainly does not understand because 54:04 he is incapable of conceptualizing his 54:06 thoughts. Therefore, he must be helped 54:09 so he understands that he is tasked 54:11 with guarding this country so that no 54:14 one is left behind without land. So, I 54:18 think issues like this are very good, 54:21 like the statement from Mr. Lius who 54:23 spoke from his conscience. Then there 54:26 is the statement from Mardani Ali Sera 54:28 who spoke up because he understands 54:30 what social justice is. Now, this is 54:33 actually an ethical lesson for us today 54:35 . Not to mention if we uncover that top 54:38 officials at that institution turn out 54:41 to have illegal ties to several cases 54:44 that are now finally being exposed. 54:48 Lastly, Sentul City is a public company 54:50 , so there may be investors who were 54:53 negligent in reading their legal 54:55 agreements and then invested there. And 55:00 that means, in many ways, the people's 55:02 interests will be ignored for the 55:04 interests of accumulators or investors. 55:10 Now, I want the state to maximize its 55:12 function, which is to distribute land, 55:15 not accumulate land for capitalists. So 55:20 , our point is always to remind 55:22 everyone that this country was designed 55:24 for the prosperity of the people, not 55:25 the oligarchy. Thank you. 55:28 Alright, thank you. Now, I would like 55:32 to go to Om Lius. Om Lius, lately we 55:36 have been seeing a phenomenon in our 55:38 country where those in power, who 55:40 should be upholding justice, are 55:42 failing to do so. The wealthy and 55:47 capable, who should be spreading 55:49 compassion and embracing the less 55:51 fortunate, are instead oppressing them 55:53 and acting arbitrarily. How does Om 55:58 Lius view the phenomenon currently 55:59 happening in our nation and what is 56:01 your perspective? What are your hopes 56:04 for the future, Om Lius? From what I 56:07 see, these wealthy people actually just 56:12 follow the government. They don't want 56:16 to harm the people. But if the 56:20 government remains silent, as business 56:23 people wanting big profits, they will 56:26 pressure and sell at a high price. One 56:30 thing that makes me sad is, those being 56:35 dismissed from the KPK are great people 56:39 who have already caught high-class 56:43 corruptors. I am actually quite curious 56:50 . I hope this video reaches Jokowi. One 56:57 of the people to be dismissed said that 56:59 if he were activated this afternoon, he 57:02 would catch the fugitive Harun Masiku, 57:05 saying, "I'll wrap him up, I know where 57:08 he is." Why isn't he summoned? Give him 57:15 a special task to catch him. So, if 57:20 these people being dismissed had 57:23 indications of corruption or misconduct 57:26 , I would think, "Wow, how could they 57:29 do that?" But this is just failing the 57:33 national insight test. Oh my. That is 57:39 excessive. What more do you want? They 57:43 have already proven themselves by 57:45 catching big-time corruptors. Why are 57:49 they being dismissed this November just 57:52 for failing a national insight test? 57:56 Even the President said, "Do not let 57:59 people be dismissed because of the 58:01 national insight test," but it wasn't 58:04 followed by the KPK leadership. Where 58:08 is the President's authority? So, I 58:11 find it strange. Oh, why is it like 58:14 this? Mr. Jokowi is very powerful. Mr. 58:18 Jokowi can do whatever he wants now. 58:22 Mr. Mardani's party can't do anything. 58:28 Everything has already become powerful, 58:32 right? He can do whatever he wants. He 58:34 could even go for three terms. Who says 58:37 he can't? Voting, he would win. But 58:43 please don't tamper with what this 58:46 nation has already agreed upon. We 58:51 wanted reform because Mr. Harto could 58:53 extend, and extend, and extend his term 58:55 , over and over again. That's why it 58:58 was limited to just two terms. Now, as 59:02 for the others for the President, two 59:06 terms is enough. Don't say you want to 59:10 change it, or add another term, or a 3- 59:14 year extension; that's not necessary. 59:19 Mr. Joko immediately said, "I don't 59:22 want that, don't set me up," as the 59:25 Betawi people say. I want to focus on 59:30 eradicating corruption, the KPK 59:35 government regulation created by Mr. 59:38 Wardani, let the parties supporting me 59:41 handle it. Yes, I have the government 59:44 regulation to strengthen the KPK. 59:47 Ready. That's cool. 59:49 That COVID shouldn't be so expensive. I 59:56 got hit with a 1.4 million charge for a 59:59 nose swab. Mr. Jokowi finally said 500, 1:00:02 but it was too late. How many people 1:00:05 have already paid 1.5 million? My point 1:00:09 is, let's focus from now on. Cheap 1:00:13 medicine, cheap masks, everything cheap 1:00:17 . That’s my view on those three 1:00:21 things. For these 3 years, focus on 1:00:22 these three. Fight COVID, eradicate 1:00:25 corruption. Land is important. Pity the 1:00:30 poor people. I have 720 [hectares] in 1:00:35 land rights. If I give 320 to the 1:00:41 people, I won't become poor. I’d 1:00:44 still have 400 left. Why? Why did I 1:00:50 tell Mr. Sofyan Jalil that? It’s okay 1:00:53 , sir. I mean, the others should follow 1:00:57 suit. If you have 2 million hectares, 1:01:00 share it with the people so they can 1:01:03 prosper. That’s all, sir, I don't 1:01:05 want anything else. Mr. Roki Gung was 1:01:07 right about that earlier. That happened 1:01:10 in Sukabumi. So Mr. Jokowi distributed 1:01:14 ownership certificates. Once Mr. Jokowi 1:01:18 left, they were taken back. That's 1:01:21 because it wasn't well-planned. It was 1:01:23 just for a ceremony; it should have 1:01:26 been planned thoroughly. So, once given 1:01:31 , it shouldn't just be individual, but 1:01:34 cooperatives should be nurtured so they 1:01:38 become the owners. They could be 1:01:42 wealthy if they owned the land. If that 1:01:46 were done all over Indonesia. I think 1:01:50 Mr. Jokowi needs to approach the 1:01:53 opposition parties, usually, opposition 1:01:58 parties listen more to the people's 1:02:00 voice. Parties that already support 1:02:03 Jokowi are sometimes afraid. Afraid of 1:02:07 having their ministers removed. So when 1:02:10 summoned by the President, everyone 1:02:12 says they’re on the right track. 1:02:16 Don't all of you just agree. There must 1:02:18 be some wrong policies by Mr. Jokowi, 1:02:21 some that aren't quite right. Those 1:02:24 supporting parties must let him know. 1:02:28 Don't just keep saying it's good, it's 1:02:29 fine. If it were fine, the people would 1:02:33 be prosperous and no one would be 1:02:34 complaining. 1:02:37 Right, thank you, Uncle Lius. 1:02:39 Extraordinary. Remember 1:02:42 Uncle Lius's banner, yes. May a sense 1:02:49 of justice be upheld in our nation, 1:02:51 Uncle Lius, and may the people be 1:02:53 prosperous and receive justice in full. 1:02:57 Alright, dear friends. If we continue 1:03:01 this, it could spread everywhere and 1:03:08 I'm worried there will be other houses 1:03:11 evicted besides the Professor's house. 1:03:20 Alright, we have reached the end of the 1:03:22 show, it's time for our closing 1:03:24 statement or closing ideas, starting 1:03:27 with Mr. Marani. The floor is yours, 1:03:31 Sir. Thank you, Bang Haldi, Om Lius, 1:03:34 Bung Rocky. Eh, this isn't about RI's 1:03:38 land, this isn't about us, but this is 1:03:42 about a state that protects its people. 1:03:47 Whoever we are, we must always be brave 1:03:50 in correcting the government; the 1:03:53 opposition also sometimes needs to be 1:03:56 corrected, all sides, so they truly 1:03:58 work for the people. Because that is 1:04:02 where sovereignty comes from, that is 1:04:05 where the state is established, and 1:04:07 that is where we will find true 1:04:10 happiness with the people, for the 1:04:12 people, and for the people's welfare. 1:04:15 Thank you, Bang Haldi. 1:04:16 Alright, thank you, Mr. Merani. Next, 1:04:18 Om Lius's closing statement, Om Lius. 1:04:21 Anyway, we are united, even if we who 1:04:24 speak out get bullied. Oh, forget it. 1:04:28 If we get bullied, it means what we're 1:04:30 saying is right. The important thing is 1:04:36 that the people are happy. 1:04:39 Yes. 1:04:39 We get bullied, but when we meet people 1:04:42 , many want to take photos. Wow, I tell 1:04:45 him, that means you're right, sir. 1:04:47 Thank you, sir. You voiced that. So, 1:04:50 for Rocky, he’s already been taught 1:04:53 like a hermit. In Buddhism, he doesn't 1:04:58 need luxury. He. He sleeps wherever he 1:05:03 can. He only eats once a day. So, 1:05:08 regarding the Sentul issue, it's not 1:05:11 about RI. It's about the people, like I 1:05:15 just encountered. Okay, 1:05:17 alright. Thank you, Om Lius. Lastly, Om 1:05:21 Rocky. 1:05:23 Okay, I'll make a reflection because I 1:05:26 used to teach eh philosophy of law and 1:05:28 environmental philosophy. Land, first 1:05:31 and foremost, is a natural relationship 1:05:33 with humans. Only after that does a 1:05:36 legal relationship exist. So, we must 1:05:39 understand that closeness to the land 1:05:41 creates empathy for what we are 1:05:43 nurturing. Now, regarding my land, I 1:05:48 don't care about buildings or whatever, 1:05:51 because I plant various types of trees 1:05:54 so that a bird doesn't lose its right 1:05:57 to nest because a pine tree was cut 1:06:00 down. I want morning dew to be able to 1:06:05 rest on the tips of my orange trees, 1:06:07 waiting for the sun to evaporate it and 1:06:11 become an atmosphere full of oxygen. I 1:06:15 want the bees that often nest at my 1:06:18 place to have the right to flirt with 1:06:21 the flowers. So, this is actually an 1:06:25 ecosystem. So, Sentul City is 1:06:27 displacing an ecosystem, and that is 1:06:29 what I consider, well, stupid. And 1:06:33 those buzzers don't understand that 1:06:35 protecting the ecosystem means 1:06:36 protecting our right to live in harmony 1:06:38 with nature. So, our ethical standards 1:06:42 are fake these days. Even though 1:06:46 actually, in November, Mr. Jokowi will 1:06:48 go to Glasgow to attend an 1:06:50 environmental summit and will have to 1:06:52 answer for why Indonesia is asking to 1:06:55 delay zero emissions, for example. And 1:06:59 actually, if cases like this are heard 1:07:02 by international journalists, Mr. 1:07:04 Jokowi will be bothered with short 1:07:07 videos, or international journalists 1:07:09 will line up in Glasgow, Scotland, and 1:07:12 try to get the world's attention. So, a 1:07:16 situation like this will be 1:07:17 embarrassing. There will be news from 1:07:20 the UK soon that Jokowi is being 1:07:22 bullied for delaying, uh, zero 1:07:24 emissions. Well, this will make people 1:07:26 uncover again who is actually behind 1:07:28 Sentul City. That’s a small matter to 1:07:30 find out. Even crazier, who is behind 1:07:33 500 million hectares of land, who is 1:07:35 behind 76%control of Indonesia's 1:07:38 forests. This is what is called the 1:07:40 political economy analysis that was 1:07:42 just being attempted to be uncovered by 1:07:43 Mr. Mardani Ali Sera. Certainly with 1:07:45 the facilities of the DPR institution. 1:07:48 Likewise, earlier Mr. Helius, uh, told 1:07:51 us that he even wants to donate his 1:07:53 land, half of his 300 hectares, to be 1:07:56 given to the people so that there is 1:07:58 independence for people to cultivate 1:08:01 their land. Not just every day having 1:08:04 property issues. So these things, this 1:08:06 kind of humanity, should be remembered 1:08:09 by those in power. So once again, a 1:08:11 special thank you from me because ILC, 1:08:14 without me asking, discussed this 1:08:16 matter because this is not about me, 1:08:18 this is about a fair way of life. 1:08:23 Thank you, Bung Rocky, later we will 1:08:25 also have a special webinar, uh, about 1:08:27 the environment. The invitation will 1:08:29 follow regarding environmental 1:08:31 philosophy. Okay. 1:08:34 Friends at PKS want to make it, Mr. 1:08:36 Mardani is the head of the environment, 1:08:38 technology, and industry division, and 1:08:41 the Sentul environmental event. 1:08:46 Right, dear friends, uh, we have 1:08:48 arrived at the end of the event. We 1:08:50 have heard the presentation related to 1:08:53 this issue that this is not just an 1:08:55 issue about Bung Rocky's land, but this 1:08:58 is an issue of justice. This is just 1:09:01 the tip of the iceberg regarding how 1:09:04 the oligarchy of developers and 1:09:06 corporations, uh, should also be able 1:09:08 to uphold justice for all Indonesian 1:09:11 people. And there was an interesting 1:09:14 question earlier, we must wonder who 1:09:16 exactly, uh, is behind the control of 1:09:18 millions of hectares of land use rights 1:09:20 in Indonesia. Who are the biggest 1:09:23 landowners in our country. Right, uh, 1:09:27 the case of Bung Rocky's issue, uh, 1:09:29 makes us, the public, dig deeper to, uh 1:09:32 , uncover the phenomena that are 1:09:34 happening in our country. Thank you, 1:09:38 see you on Indonesia Lawyers Club next 1:09:40 week on the same channel and time. 1:09:42 Peace be upon you and Allah's mercy and 1:09:44 blessings. 1:09:44 And peace be upon you and Allah's mercy 1:09:46 and blessings. Okay, thanks. 
