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0:13 In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious 0:14 , the Most Merciful. May the peace, 0:15 mercy, and blessings of Allah be upon 0:16 you. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the 0:18 worlds. Blessings and peace be upon our 0:20 master Muhammad, and upon his family 0:22 and all his companions. O Lord, 0:24 increase me in knowledge. O Allah, 0:26 benefit me with what You have taught me 0:27 , teach me what will benefit me, and 0:29 grant me useful knowledge. Broadcasting 0:32 from 36 Masjid Silaturahim Street, 0:34 Kalimanggis, Cibubur, Bekasi, Radio 0:36 Silaturahim and Rasil TV for a united 0:39 Islam. Brothers and sisters who are 0:41 blessed by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. 0:43 How are you doing this evening? I hope 0:46 you are always in good health. I am 0:49 very happy, brothers and sisters, that 0:51 I, Angga Aminudin, can greet you once 0:53 again. I am accompanied by Ondi and 0:57 also Fahri, who are on duty tonight, 1:01 and we are here for the live broadcast 1:05 of "Open Eyes, Open Ears," for the 1:08 Sunday edition, July 26, 2026. Our 1:13 resource person for the "Open Eyes, 1:15 Open Ears" program has joined us via 1:18 Zoom meeting, Dr. Sarbini Abdul Murad. 1:21 Peace be upon you, and the mercy and 1:22 blessings of Allah, Dr. Ben. 1:24 And unto you be peace, and the mercy 1:26 and blessings of Allah, Mas Angga. 1:28 How are you, Doc? Praise be to Allah. 1:31 Praise be to Allah, I am healthy. 1:34 We are back on air for a live broadcast 1:37 , because our listeners are not only 1:40 tuning in via AM720, or through 1:45 broadcasts relayed in several cities, 1:48 but also following the broadcast via 1:50 live streaming. We are also live on 1:54 YouTube. And Dr. Ben, this evening we 1:59 will raise the topic of what is 2:02 actually behind the deportation of 2:05 Palestinian activists. Now, besides 2:09 that, we will also have an update, Doc. 2:12 We will also touch on several things 2:15 related to the struggle of the 2:19 Palestinian people. Besides fighting in 2:22 their own land in Gaza or the West Bank 2:25 , the struggles of the Palestinian 2:27 people are actually spread across all 2:30 countries. One of them is also in 2:33 Indonesia. What is of concern is what 2:36 is actually going on with the 2:37 Indonesian government? Why does it seem 2:41 that lately, there have been so many 2:47 attitudes from the authorities that 2:52 seem anti-Palestinian activists? So, we 2:58 want to dissect that; what is actually 3:01 being highlighted by Dr. Ben himself, 3:05 and we will also highlight other 3:08 matters. If the attention towards 3:12 Palestine is still so great from its 3:15 people, we can see the signs, besides 3:18 perhaps the campaigns and actions that 3:21 are still ongoing. Then, how is the 3:26 actual stance of the government, which 3:30 wants to show its promise or identity 3:33 to always help Palestine? Is that also 3:37 reflected by the current government? 3:40 That is it, Doc. Or, what is your 3:42 opening, Doc? Actually, behind several 3:45 cases, if we also compare it with other 3:47 countries, for example, Malaysia or 3:49 Middle Eastern countries. How, Doc, 3:52 would you like to start our discussion 3:55 this evening? 3:57 Yes, Mas Angga. Thank you, Mas Angga. 4:00 We are trying to explain to our 4:02 audience that this is not a small 4:04 problem, but this is a serious issue. 4:08 If we do not try to address or try to 4:12 counter the narratives that will 4:15 eventually lead to other deportation 4:19 steps. And this is most likely to 4:23 happen if we do not provide a good 4:26 response. Well, Mas Angga, tonight we 4:30 are trying to discuss this, aren't we? 4:33 Actually, we are not really that 4:35 surprised, are we, because the 4:38 government's stance on Palestine is not 4:41 as total as Malaysia's, as we can see. 4:46 So, indeed, the state's or government's 4:49 policies toward Palestine are not as 4:52 strong or as total as what the people 4:54 provide. So it is not wrong to say 4:58 there is an ambivalence; there is an 5:01 ambivalence between the actions taken 5:03 by the community and what the 5:05 government does. These are two 5:07 different things. So, after the action 5:10 this morning at the Horse Statue, 5:12 usually a government representative 5:14 attends, sometimes the Deputy Minister 5:16 even attends. But on this occasion, I 5:19 haven't seen anyone present from the 5:21 government side, or perhaps they were 5:23 not invited. And indeed, at today's 5:27 demonstration, we tried to highlight, 5:29 Mas Angga. One of them is that the 5:31 theme we raised is that Palestinian 5:33 fighters are not terrorists. Well, that 5:37 is the prologue that I think, Mas Angga 5:39 , we will try to discuss. So that the 5:43 listeners of this result understand the 5:45 issue. There is a counter-narrative 5:49 currently being built by certain 5:51 parties to justify the steps taken by 5:54 the government in deporting Abdul Karim 5:57 Miqdad. That, Mas Angga, is the 6:00 prologue I can share; later we will 6:02 discuss it more deeply. 6:04 Alright, Doctor Iwan Ahwad. Uh, a few 6:09 days ago, uh, Abdul Karim Miqdad, a, uh 6:14 , Palestinian citizen, was deported by 6:19 the Indonesian government. And several 6:24 news reports also highlighted facts 6:27 shared by the Indonesian government 6:30 that the deportation was carried out 6:33 based on an Interpol Red Notice. So 6:38 there was, uh, an NCB Interpol Nicosia, 6:40 so to speak, from Cyprus. So there was 6:44 a kind of report, like an accusation to 6:48 the Indonesian government, that this 6:51 activist, this Palestinian person, was 6:54 suspected of committing acts of 6:57 terrorism. So there was a crime in the 7:00 jurisdiction of Cyprus. Well, these are 7:03 the news stories being brought up. 7:07 There was communication between the 7:10 police in Cyprus and also the police in 7:13 Indonesia. Finally, an arrest occurred 7:17 on July 16, and then a deportation 7:19 happened on July 17. This process was 7:23 very fast. The process was very fast. 7:27 There was also an identity 7:29 clarification made by the government of 7:33 the Republic of Indonesia, and they 7:36 stated that Abdul Karim is not a cleric 7:39 and not a humanitarian activist from 7:43 Gaza either. Then this identity was 7:47 published. However, we also received 7:50 information from other media outlets. 7:54 One of them was written by Alhidar 7:57 Abdulman, uh, Putih, right, an 8:00 anthropologist from Lhokseumawe, Aceh, 8:04 who in his writing highlights how the 8:07 deportation of Abdul Karim Raid Miqdad 8:10 by the Indonesian government sparked 8:14 major, what, major controversy both 8:17 domestically and internationally. Now, 8:21 we want to look at it like this, Doc. 8:24 Regarding the government and its 8:27 commitment to Palestine, we see this 8:30 case, time and again, being framed 8:32 purely as an individual criminal matter 8:36 . However, if it did spark controversy, 8:41 how does a humanitarian activist like 8:44 Dr. Ben view this, Doc? Yes, Mas. 8:50 Sangga, indeed, two or three nights ago 8:54 , the Coordinating Minister came to the 8:57 MUI to explain the situation, the 9:00 government's basis for doing so, after, 9:03 uh, previously, public scrutiny had 9:06 grown so intense regarding the 9:09 controversial move, we could say, taken 9:12 by the government against a Palestinian 9:16 activist. And indeed, the narrative 9:21 built by the Coordinating Minister, in 9:23 our view, leaves several mysteries that 9:26 we really need to clarify. I mean, I 9:30 suspect that the Coordinating Minister 9:32 did not expect such a huge reaction 9:35 from the Republic of Indonesia, Mas 9:38 Sangga. So, he thought the deportation 9:39 would be the end of it. I mean, the 9:42 media didn't know, people didn't know 9:44 the process, and as you and our friends 9:47 know, it was only after the Geneva 9:49 Council—the Geneva Council for Human 9:51 Rights and Freedoms—regretted the 9:53 Indonesian government's move to deport 9:55 Abdul Karim to Cyprus. And that, 9:59 eventually, he would be sent back to 10:02 Israel, where he would face torture. So 10:05 , after this council, this Geneva 10:07 council, issued a warning, then the 10:08 public reaction arose. Like, why was 10:11 there a secret deportation, without any 10:14 notice? So, because of that, Yusril 10:16 tried to convince the MUI and Islamic 10:19 organizations, right. Because he thinks 10:22 of himself as an Islamic activist, 10:24 right. "Surely the MUI will listen to 10:28 me, surely they will trust me." That's 10:31 the simple way of putting it, Mas. But 10:35 the opposite happened, we questioned, 10:37 for example, he stated that Abdul Karim 10:39 was not a cleric, that he was a 10:41 terrorist, that he was part of a 10:43 terrorist network, and that in Malaysia 10:45 his network was dismantled, right? 10:48 He was going to run seven places, right 10:50 ? And actually, as a person, as a 10:56 humanitarian activist, and having been 10:59 nicknamed the young Natsir, he should 11:01 actually be able to understand how 11:04 someone like Natsir was so supportive 11:06 of Palestine,,in my words, "brutally" 11:09 defending Palestine. So, does that mean 11:13 it is that easy for Yusril to say he is 11:17 not a cleric? 11:19 Now, Miqdad is an alumnus of 11:21 Al-Zaitounah, right. Azzaitunah alumnus 11:26 of Tunisia, PhD in Usul Fiqh. So the 11:30 question is, an expert in Usul Fiqh is 11:33 essentially what a scholar is, right? 11:35 So that is debunked, yes. But because 11:39 at the time of the meeting, none of my 11:41 friends informed me, and it was sudden, 11:42 I couldn't attend either because of the 11:44 one-hour... 11:46 h 11:47 I only received the invitation one hour 11:49 before the event. Oh dear, I couldn't 11:51 make it. But if it had been a bit 11:53 earlier, maybe I could have come. We 11:55 are trying to counter the narrative, 11:58 right, of what was conveyed by the 12:00 Coordinating Minister, because from 12:02 what he presented, he was only reading, 12:04 reading what was handed to him. And 12:08 this is what I honestly regret, for 12:11 example, saying things like he 12:13 committed criminal terror in Cyprus, 12:16 but it doesn't state what that crime 12:19 was, what it is, what. 12:23 The network in Malaysia, what kind of 12:26 network, and where were these residue 12:28 emissions found? 12:30 h 12:31 It doesn't make sense, if I were a 12:34 terrorist, would there be residue in my 12:36 house, perhaps old weapons, we already 12:39 know about those kinds of accusations. 12:43 Now, that is what becomes our question, 12:46 you see. I honestly have to say that 12:50 many of us are friends with 12:52 Palestinians. Whether they are students 12:55 , business people, or, what do you call 12:58 it, exiled individuals. So we interact 13:01 with them, and we are worried that 13:03 these repercussions could also affect 13:05 their community. So, we are trying to 13:09 do whatever we can, which is why the 13:12 government should reach out, for 13:14 instance, by meeting with the 13:16 ambassadors. 13:19 The Palestinian one, because the 13:21 Coordinating Minister before this had 13:24 already dealt with Cyprus, Palestine, 13:27 etc., always thinking in a bureaucratic 13:30 or administrative way. But he should 13:34 have held limited discussions with 13:36 groups supporting Palestine, rather 13:38 than just formal ones. Meaning he 13:42 should seek information, so the 13:44 information he finds is not just 13:45 formalistic. Formal meetings also have 13:49 journalists, so not everything can be 13:51 openly conveyed by the sources, right? 13:54 This is what is happening today. So, 13:57 that is why...to counter the narrative, 14:02 for example, how we should bring it 14:03 back to Indonesia. And I think an 14:07 Israeli might not understand how close 14:09 the relationship between Israel and 14:11 Cyprus is, it’s an extraordinary base 14:13 . 14:16 And it must be known that Cyprus is the 14:18 base for Mossad for operations in 14:20 Europe. So there are many things that 14:23 are indeed... 14:24 I am still blank regarding that, and 14:27 the accusations saying there is a 14:30 network in Malaysia. They don't 14:34 understand that these Palestinian 14:36 activists don't operate abroad. 14:40 That distinguishes them from ISIS, 14:42 because ISIS—or Daesh, as they say in 14:44 Arabic—bases itself in other 14:46 countries and attacks other countries, 14:48 but Palestine doesn't. 14:50 After '82, they didn't anymore. In the 14:52 past, yes, there was the Popular Front, 14:54 they carried out attacks in Munich, and 14:56 so on and so forth. That was in the 14:59 past, yes, long ago. But now, they’ve 15:01 moved away from that because they 15:02 didn't gain international sympathy; 15:04 instead, it became a struggle for their 15:05 homeland. So, they focus on struggling 15:08 within their own country. Now, does a 15:11 coordinating minister not understand 15:14 this landscape? This is it, Mas Angga. 15:19 Exactly, Mas Angga. Okay. Tonight, we 15:24 will also focus on how this issue, when 15:26 it emerges in the public sphere, 15:29 receives many responses, right, Doctor? 15:33 As mentioned earlier, controversies 15:35 have arisen. One of them is how the 15:38 responses and statements are being 15:41 handled. The UN Working Group issued a 15:44 statement. There is also a coalition of 15:46 13 civil society organizations, and 15:48 Middle East Monitor as a media outlet 15:50 is also highlighting it significantly. 15:53 Likewise, there is a report from the 15:56 Geneva Council for Rights, which also 15:58 questions the steps taken by the 16:00 Indonesian government that looked at an 16:02 Interpol Red Notice, which is not a 16:04 court ruling, yet it was used as a 16:07 basis. Now, we also see this, Doctor. 16:11 Regarding public concerns about the 16:14 possibility, that the arrested 16:19 activists would be handed over to 16:22 Israel. Even though the Indonesian 16:24 government has requested and reportedly 16:26 received assurances from Cyprus that 16:28 they will not be handed over to a third 16:30 country. Then we also see the 16:33 inconsistency in information from the 16:36 government that can be very easily 16:39 refuted by, among others, the Geneva 16:42 Council for Rights report and the 16:45 Middle East Monitor. Now, what if we 16:49 compare, Doctor, the Indonesian 16:52 government with Malaysia? Because 16:56 people are eventually making 16:57 comparisons and highlighting this. 17:01 Although Indonesia and Malaysia do not 17:05 have diplomatic relations with Israel, 17:08 global pressure and its influence seem 17:12 to be very significant. Especially now 17:17 that there are many differences in the 17:19 governments 'stances regarding their 17:20 foreign policies. Malaysia and 17:23 Indonesia now appear to be increasingly 17:26 different toward Palestine. Moreover, 17:29 this Palestinian issue is often 17:31 influenced by international dynamics. 17:34 Doctor, how do you see the world's 17:37 response—other countries—in this 17:40 case, beyond the responses from NGOs or 17:44 figures who are pro-Palestine? 17:50 Yes, indeed, if we compare the 17:52 Malaysian government with Indonesia, 17:54 the difference is quite significant. So 17:58 I divide it this way, that what is 18:01 being done by Indonesia is actually at 18:03 the moral and humanitarian level. We 18:07 are not denying, yes, we don't deny 18:09 what the Indonesian government has done 18:12 for Palestine, and we appreciate it, 18:15 but the context, Mas Angga, is more 18:18 about humanity and moral support as a 18:21 country that was once colonized. Then, 18:24 Palestine today is not yet independent. 18:27 So there is a constitutional 18:29 responsibility for Indonesia, but in 18:32 the context of humanity, Mas Angga, and 18:35 so on, but Malaysia, Mas Angga, they 18:38 are one step ahead. 18:41 So, besides the humanitarian aspect, 18:42 they also dare to engage in political 18:44 aspects. Meaning, for example, how 18:47 Mahathir Mohamad expelled citizens 18:49 working in Malaysia, that was a 18:51 political move, Mas Angga, surely the 18:54 impact is huge. I always say it like 18:57 this: there is resistance, political 18:59 resistance, which has already been 19:01 carried out by Malaysia, while 19:03 Indonesia has not reached that stage 19:05 yet, Mas Angga. So, I think our 19:07 shortcoming is in the aspect of 19:10 political resistance. There are two 19:13 aspects, yes: the humanitarian and 19:15 moral aspects. 19:18 That, we are okay with, no problem, we 19:20 can accept that. But when it comes to 19:24 political resistance, that is where we 19:26 have a problem. Now, imagine, there is 19:31 a shift, you could say a shift in the 19:34 humanitarian activists in Malaysia. If 19:39 we look at it, since the October 7th 19:41 war, many of them have been scattered 19:43 everywhere. Certainly, Gulf countries 19:46 have closed their doors, except for 19:49 Qatar, and even then, Qatar only hosts 19:51 their leaders, and they are not allowed 19:54 to hold demonstrations or things like 19:56 that, just being hosted, Mas Angga. So, 20:01 there is Turkey, aside from that, 20:03 Turkey hosts them and provides 20:04 political access as well as security. 20:08 But the rest are now more dominantly 20:09 shifting to Southeast Asia, and their 20:12 base is in Malaysia. So, we remember 20:14 what year was it? 2020 or when was it, 20:16 Mas Angga? The assassination of one of 20:19 the humanitarian activists, perhaps a 20:22 Hamas activist, in Kuala Lumpur, 20:24 Malaysia, carried out by the Israeli 20:26 Mossad. So indeed, Mas Angga, there is 20:30 a shift of their activities to Malaysia 20:33 and Indonesia, and that is read by 20:35 Israel. That reading is what they use 20:39 to try and create a counter-narrative 20:41 saying that they are terrorists and so 20:43 on. That is an effort built by Israel 20:48 to say, "Be careful, don't just accept 20:50 them, it's dangerous for your national 20:52 security," right? Now, 20:54 yes, 20:56 I see, Mas Angga, that I found a photo 20:59 that this is Ismail Haniyeh's child 21:02 from his wife. So I see that, oh, no 21:06 wonder the puzzle is being revealed, 21:09 the puzzle. So this is a part 21:13 these are parts of the people in the 21:15 inner circle who are trying to be 21:17 finished off. So, if it were to be done 21:21 in Indonesia, it's a bit more difficult 21:23 , because, well, it's not the same as 21:26 in Malaysia. It is harder in Indonesia, 21:28 right. But they have to create a 21:31 narrative that they, whoever they are, 21:34 must be deported. Maybe Cyprus, perhaps 21:37 . Even if they are deported to Cyprus, 21:41 even if not to Israel, the treatment 21:43 could be even more cruel, right? 21:47 What they do could be like that. 21:50 Yeah. So, Mas Angga, the international 21:54 protests and the public outcry against 21:56 Indonesia's actions are something the 21:59 government should introspect about. 22:03 Imagine, Mas Angga, a few weeks ago, 22:06 Bassem Naim, he was in Malaysia, 22:08 traveling around, and then when he 22:10 wanted to go to Jakarta, he was 22:12 detained too. 22:14 He wasn't allowed to go to Jakarta. 22:17 And this leak, it wasn't in all the 22:18 media, it suddenly leaked to the media, 22:20 right? 22:23 That raises the question, why does 22:24 Indonesia object to receiving them? 22:28 Malaysia is comfortable talking with 22:30 Anwar Ibrahim, and he treats them as 22:32 part of those consistently fighting for 22:35 independence. So, I have some content 22:39 where I say that Indonesia is actually 22:42 trampling on the constitution. Meaning, 22:46 constitutionally, we are actually given 22:49 a guarantee to accommodate them, right? 22:54 Like how we once accommodated the FLN, 22:57 the Algerian fighters in the 50s, right 23:00 ? They were accommodated for 5 years; 23:03 they weren't just put up, Mas Angga, 23:04 they were given houses, all sorts of 23:06 things by the government, given access 23:08 to whatever they requested. So, 23:10 Indonesia is actually not a stranger to 23:13 sheltering fighters; we are actually 23:16 pioneers. So, something is wrong. Why 23:20 are we annoyed, Mas Angga? Because 23:22 Yusril, take Yusril for example, he is 23:24 a movement person, he's not a stranger 23:26 to the world of movements; in fact, he 23:28 was an ideologue when he was young, he 23:30 was that intellectual. And he was once 23:35 very close to Natsir, and we know how 23:38 brutally Natsir defended Palestine, so 23:41 why is it like this? Like, what are you 23:45 doing there? His house is different now 23:51 , Doc. Well, but we are also, Doc. It 23:55 means the political motive is visible, 23:58 right? It's very clear there's indirect 24:01 pressure, we can guess that even though 24:04 the Indonesian government will 24:05 definitely deny it. We also need to 24:11 know, Doc, who exactly are the figures 24:15 being deported, Abdul Karim, Raid, 24:18 Miqdad; could we be informed who these 24:22 figures are and what their activities 24:25 were in Indonesia? If we want to 24:31 explain further about other figures 24:33 besides Abdul Karim Raid Mik and the 24:35 Palestinians who may currently be 24:37 visiting or even active in Indonesia, 24:40 what is the development there, Doc? Yes 24:45 , as I mentioned earlier, Mas, they are 24:47 alumni of Aitunah's PhD program in Fiqh 24:50 , right. I know exactly that their 24:53 activities are those of fighters. They 24:56 are portrayed as going back and forth 24:57 to Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, and 24:59 everywhere else, creating a narrative 25:00 that this is dangerous, an 25:01 international network. But a fighter, 25:04 an activist, surely wouldn't just hide 25:06 at home, that's impossible. They must 25:10 move; they move to consolidate, network 25:12 , and so on, right. So, I really see, 25:16 Mas Angga, a bad narrative being built 25:19 by parties who are intentionally, uh, 25:22 trying to defend this wrong decision. 25:27 So the impression given to the general 25:29 public is, "Oh, it's suspicious why 25:31 they keep going back and forth to 25:33 Malaysia and other countries, surely 25:35 there's consolidation and all that," 25:37 right. Now, the AWG friends might start 25:41 worrying, if they are seen in other 25:43 ways, people might say, "Why are they 25:45 doing this?" or are there parties 25:48 trying to do something else? So, Mas 25:51 Angga, I see it this way: I think there 25:55 are things beyond his control. Deep 25:58 down, his conscience might be shocked 26:00 and he might disagree, but it's 26:02 difficult, the decision was already 26:04 taken without his knowledge. I know, I 26:07 know exactly that I don't know if this 26:08 step was taken by the Coordinating 26:09 Ministry for Political, Legal, and 26:11 Security Affairs. 26:12 They took the step, and then it became 26:13 a controversy, right. Now, it's 26:15 impossible for him to speak out. To do 26:19 the opposite, it's impossible for him 26:20 to blame this move. The person has 26:22 already been deported, what more can be 26:24 said? That's how I read the situation. 26:26 But like it or not, whatever the reason 26:29 , for the public, Mas Angga, it's 26:32 unacceptable, they can't accept it, or 26:35 for him to say: "I apologize, this was 26:38 our mistake, acting in haste without 26:41 clarification or verification," so that 26:44 a Palestinian activist had to be 26:46 deported. But actually, if we want to 26:51 be fair, we shouldn't defend a wrong 26:54 move that creates multi-interpretations 26:57 ; what we are worried about, Mas Angga, 27:00 is that if we don't speak up, other 27:03 Palestinians will be deported just by 27:06 finding any excuse. 27:08 Yes, yes. 27:10 It's like this: going back and forth to 27:12 Turkey, to Syria, and so on, to 27:14 laypeople who don't understand, it 27:16 creates the thought: "Ah, this person 27:18 is dangerous." This person could 27:21 endanger national security stability. 27:24 Now, this is what I think, Mas Angga. 27:26 So, earlier in the demonstration, we 27:28 tried to, uh, speak, quote-unquote, 27:29 loudly about this. Well, so that, uh, 27:33 stakeholders hear that, uh, we 27:35 shouldn't get carried away by Israel's 27:37 rhythm, right? 27:39 Israel, where we are also continuing, 27:41 what do you call it, continuing as an 27:43 extension of their tongue. The tongue 27:45 of the Zionists, yes. To the, to the, 27:47 to the what? The tongues of Israel, so 27:49 we can convey to the public that these 27:50 people are, you know, like this. 27:52 Yes. Yes. Yes. The action was at the 27:55 horse statue this morning, right, Doc? 27:59 Yes. Yes. 28:00 Where did the voices voicing this issue 28:03 come from, Doc? 28:05 Well, this, this, what we have is MOI, 28:07 uh, Mas, the Council of, uh, what, 28:09 Islamic organizations, yes. Previously, 28:12 we did have a limited discussion to 28:14 highlight, we, we highlighted that we 28:17 must do something, something to prove 28:20 to the public, yes, to the world, that 28:22 Indonesia, the Indonesian people are 28:25 behind Palestine, you know. The 28:28 deportation does not reflect the face 28:30 of Indonesia, that's how to put it, Mas 28:32 Angga. 28:34 That is not the face of Indonesia, the 28:36 face of Indonesia is defending, 28:37 defending Palestine, so one of the 28:39 titles made was, Palestinian fighters 28:40 are not terrorists, right. So, so 28:43 This must continue to be stimulated, 28:45 and in Medan, demonstrations were also 28:47 held. Several regions also held 28:50 demonstrations to provide a, a, a 28:52 narrative center, yes, so that people 28:55 don't think that the people or 28:57 Indonesian citizens are silent about 28:59 what the government is doing. Now, this 29:03 is a warning, Mas Angga, and the 29:05 turnout was quite, quite, uh, large. So 29:10 we continue to try to bring up, uh, the 29:13 actions taken by the Indonesian 29:15 authorities; these are indeed actions 29:18 we need to try to, uh, criticize so 29:20 that in the future, Indonesia must be 29:23 more careful. So people ask, why is 29:27 there an IDF person in Bali with no 29:29 deportation, it goes everywhere. 29:32 Yes, that's right. 29:32 The reason, well, they are, uh, German 29:35 citizens, using German passports, right 29:37 ? So, why is there no bad narrative 29:39 there? Right? Well, it goes everywhere. 29:42 Okay, brothers and sisters, may Allah 29:44 Subhanahu wa ta'ala have mercy on you. 29:46 You are currently listening to the live 29:49 broadcast "Open Your Eyes, Open Your 29:51 Ears: The Invisible Hand Behind the 29:54 Deportation of Palestinian Activists." 29:58 Uh, we also invite you, brothers and 29:59 sisters, to join in. Please submit your 30:02 questions or comments to the Rasil 30:04 WhatsApp number at 0811999720. Doc, if 30:12 there is the term "invisible hand," uh, 30:18 is this, uh, true if we analyze it from 30:23 the perspective of national security 30:28 interests? It seems there is a dilemma 30:31 here. There is a dilemma, on one hand, 30:34 Indonesia is committed, yes. Because 30:37 ideologically Indonesia always defends 30:40 Palestine, but from a realistic 30:43 perspective, it seems this step, uh, uh 30:46 , its reputation is now actually the 30:49 opposite, right. What do you think, Doc 30:52 ? 30:53 Yes. Yes, the title "invisible hand" 30:57 implies there are indeed other hands 31:00 interfering, right? But I must be 31:05 honest and say that this is all an 31:07 Israeli scenario. 31:08 A scenario. 31:11 An Israeli scenario because there is a 31:13 shift in the number of Palestinian 31:15 activists in Indonesia and Malaysia. So 31:18 , Israeli intelligence considers this a 31:21 case of these resistance figures moving 31:24 their headquarters, right? They are 31:27 effectively relocating. So, they have 31:31 to, they have to embrace the local 31:33 government to provide a narrative, a 31:36 terrifying narrative, saying "Look, 31:39 this will happen, it's terrible," and 31:41 involving the local people, making them 31:44 believe this and that—it’s always 31:47 built like that, Mas Sangga. Therefore, 31:52 I see that Malaysia in this context is 31:54 much firmer, Malaysia is firmer. 31:58 And Malaysia also supports the 32:00 Palestinian government parties. So, 32:04 they do not ignore the Palestinian 32:06 government, but also embrace the 32:08 resistance groups; Mas Sangga, I see 32:09 that Malaysia is wiser, more prudent in 32:11 viewing this issue. National security 32:15 issues can be handled, right? It can be 32:19 addressed through counter-intelligence 32:22 or whatever, and we must understand, as 32:25 you said earlier Mas Sangga, that 32:28 humanitarian activists or Palestinian 32:30 independence activists are not people 32:33 who cause trouble like the foreigners 32:36 do in Bali, right? They are people who 32:41 are morally aligned with Indonesia, 32:43 because Indonesia was born from the 32:46 womb of colonialism. In terms of 32:49 ideology and morals, Pak Sangga, we 32:52 have actually felt what they are 32:55 feeling. So, it is actually not strange 32:58 for us to host them. To put it plainly, 33:01 Mas Sangga: "When we cannot help more, 33:03 at least don't make it difficult," 33:05 that's how it is. Ha. Mr. Ahmad in 33:10 Bogor. Peace be upon you and God's 33:12 mercy and blessings. Dr. Sarbini, the 33:15 deportation case of Palestinian 33:18 activists is not new internationally. 33:23 For example, in Europe, I read in the 33:26 news that some Palestinian activists 33:28 have been arrested or deported for 33:31 security reasons. But what needs to be 33:36 highlighted is how human rights 33:38 organizations address deportation cases 33:41 of Palestinians whose alleged 33:43 identities remain unclear by the 33:45 countries pressuring them. But 33:49 international pressure regarding 33:51 Palestine surely has Israel behind it. 33:53 What do you think, Doc? Okay. 33:56 Yes, there are indeed some countries, 33:59 Mas, that reject or deport, like 34:02 Palestinian students who engage in 34:04 political activities or, well, 34:06 political demonstrations and so on in 34:09 Europe. And we do see networks, for 34:14 example. Hasbara is quite active in 34:17 Indonesia, right? So we cannot dismiss, 34:19 Mas Angga, that the various narratives 34:22 being created are inseparable from 34:24 their network. We don't always say that 34:26 the government is the one behind it. I, 34:28 myself, am not convinced that the 34:30 government is the one making those. 34:32 Because the government has indeed been 34:33 countering it, right? To counter so 34:34 many of those obscure accounts, that 34:37 requires funding. Today, the government 34:39 is struggling with costs, isn't it? But 34:41 I am more convinced that these are 34:42 Hasbara agents playing to make it seem 34:44 like they are backing the government. 34:46 But in reality, they are actually 34:48 backing Israel, right? As if they are 34:50 defending—on one hand—the 34:52 government's side. Now, this is what we 34:54 must understand, that if we don't speak 34:57 up, if Mr. Ahmad doesn't speak out 34:59 loudly, they are only, what, 0 point 35:01 something percent. They are able to 35:05 carry out such a massive campaign, and 35:08 if we lose, then get ready for other 35:11 deportations or other rejections. For 35:15 example, Mas Angga, it's the same as 35:17 information like, for example—There 35:21 were clerics or scholars from Gaza who 35:23 were denied entry to Jakarta by 35:24 immigration, right? 35:26 So we heard that. But indeed, I haven't 35:29 clarified that information. However, 35:32 that information came from a source we 35:33 trust. So, actually, the question is, 35:36 why, for example, were imams from Gaza 35:39 —Why were they banned from entering? 35:43 But why, for instance, can Israeli 35:45 tourists with other passports enter? So 35:48 there are strange things, strange 35:50 things that make us emotional when we 35:52 see them. We are not—if we weren't a 35:56 Muslim country, or our officials 35:57 weren't Muslim—well, it doesn't 35:59 matter if they're Muslim or not, we 36:00 could understand, but this is a Muslim 36:02 country, so what are they looking for, 36:03 what are they defending, and why, you 36:05 know? Why is there, uh, what is it, why 36:07 are there two different treatments for 36:09 these entities? One, the Palestinians, 36:12 are considered something to be avoided, 36:14 while the other is being embraced, they 36:17 say. They want to do business in 36:19 Indonesia, what kind of business, 36:22 opening boarding houses or, I don't 36:24 know, what business, maybe geothermal 36:27 in Ternate, for example, opening access 36:30 to, uh, what is it, geothermal energy? 36:33 So, this is why, I mean, if we talk 36:35 about the public, there haven't been 36:37 diplomatic relations for a long time, 36:39 especially since I see Prabowo being a 36:41 bit more lenient, right? 36:44 Meaning, I have never heard Prabowo say 36:47 that there is a genocide in Gaza, 36:50 unlike Mamdani, right? 36:54 Who was brave enough, in front of the 36:56 public, to say there is a genocide in 36:57 Gaza. 36:58 Yes, okay, here is Ms. Lise who sent a 37:01 WhatsApp: "Assalamu'alaikum, I'm 37:03 listening, may Palestine be free soon." 37:06 There is also Ms. Ani. Bismillah. God 37:09 willing, I'm tuning in to the broadcast 37:10 tonight. Then there is a listener from 37:12 Sukabumi. Assalamu'alaikum 37:14 warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Currently, 37:17 compared to Indonesia, Malaysia is more 37:19 rational and conscientious in 37:21 addressing all issues regarding Gaza, 37:23 Palestine. As an Indonesian citizen, I 37:27 am sad and ashamed of the actions taken 37:30 by the current regime. May Allah soon 37:35 grant His help for a free Palestine, 37:38 from Mrs. Mariati in Sukabumi. Uh, then 37:42 there is also this: Asalamualaikum 37:45 warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, Rasil and 37:48 Dr. Band. I am Ismail in Pondok Aren, 37:51 South Tangerang. May I comment on 37:53 tonight's theme. In this day and age, 37:56 you still trust the government? I 38:00 personally no longer trust them because 38:02 we can see for ourselves the 38:03 environment where there are government 38:05 officials. A small example regarding 38:08 the government. One can see the 38:09 performance, or even just collecting a 38:11 salary for doing nothing. So, we should 38:15 be reviving the caliphate system as 38:18 applied by the Prophet's companions, 38:21 not a Western system. So, in the 38:25 context of tonight's theme about 38:27 activists from Palestine who were 38:30 allegedly deported from our country, it 38:33 is already clear that the government is 38:38 indeed full of that. If we look at it, 38:41 uh, Indonesia uses smoother, more 38:43 cautious language, right, but also, "Oh 38:46 , Indonesia has betrayed us," you know, 38:49 because it prioritizes its relationship 38:52 with the West rather than, uh, 38:54 prioritizing, uh, symbols of solidarity 38:56 with its Muslims. What do you think, 38:58 Doc? 39:00 Yes, as mentioned earlier by Mrs. Sapa, 39:02 we do have to admit that Malaysia is 39:04 more concrete in its stance. Malaysia's 39:07 story is not from today; since the days 39:09 of Mahathir Mohamad, they have been 39:10 more consistent in defending Palestine. 39:13 So, Indonesia, Masangga, is always at 39:15 the level of, what should I say, the 39:17 comfort zone, the humanitarian zone, 39:20 sending aid, right? Then dropping food, 39:24 then sending doctors, uh, to 39:27 humanitarian ships. It's more inclined 39:30 towards that, but they don't dare to 39:33 condemn or meet with the figures 39:35 fighting for the cause; they are very 39:37 afraid. Because indeed, when there are, 39:41 uh, risks or political complications, 39:43 we start calculating again, meaning 39:45 Indonesia is hesitant because why? Yes. 39:48 Because, indeed, they 39:49 uh, don't, don't, don't dare to 39:51 withstand the pressure, uh, the 39:53 American pressure. Then it is said that 39:55 Turkey is involved, the Arabs are 39:57 involved, they are Islamic too, right. 40:00 Such questions indicate that these 40:01 people do not understand geopolitics, 40:03 you know. So, there are questions asked 40:06 like, "Wow, this person really doesn't 40:07 understand geopolitics." Just because 40:11 Saudi Arabia is involved, then the 40:13 United Arab Emirates, it's as if that 40:15 already represents, uh, countries that 40:17 consistently defend Palestine. This is 40:19 a, a thing, a, something else, Masangga 40:21 . So I see that our government in this 40:24 context is a bit more, what is it? More 40:27 cautious, sometimes even more paranoid, 40:29 in 40:31 seeing that there will supposedly be a 40:33 massive political-economic complication 40:35 if, uh, Indonesia, for example, takes a 40:37 firm stance against Israel. 40:40 Yes. Yes. There is Mr. Abdullah in 40:42 Bekasi. Asalamualaikum warahmatullahi 40:44 wabarakatuh. from the deportation case. 40:49 This deportation seems to weaken 40:51 Indonesia's foreign policy identity as 40:54 a supporter of Palestine. But it can 40:58 also be seen that the Jewish lobby has 41:00 succeeded in shaping the narrative that 41:03 Palestinian activists threaten national 41:06 security, including Indonesia's. Is 41:09 that right, Doctor Ben? Okay. 41:14 Yes, yes, yes. Indeed, indeed, Mr. 41:16 Abdullah, that is exactly how it is. It 41:19 means a terrifying narrative must be 41:21 built so that Indonesian security 41:23 forces consider that, for domestic 41:26 stability, they must be monitored, 41:28 deported, or expelled if they enter 41:30 Indonesia. Yes, that is indeed the 41:33 narrative. That is how it is; it’s 41:35 impossible for the narrative to be the 41:36 opposite, suggesting they are good and 41:38 pious. It’s impossible; it means the 41:41 narrative conveyed by Israel is 41:42 definitely a frightening one, and it is 41:44 active. They are very active, not just 41:47 Israel, but also those Israeli networks 41:49 mentioned earlier. Hasbara works to the 41:51 maximum, right? So, even though they 41:54 are a very small minority, they work 41:55 maximally with their networks. We are 41:58 the majority, but we are not working 42:00 optimally, our networks are 42:02 disorganized, so we will certainly lose 42:04 when facing these few. 42:08 Doctor, do you see this Jewish lobby— 42:11 meaning the Zionist Israeli lobby—as 42:14 lobbying directly to the Indonesian 42:17 government, or are there specific 42:20 channels, Doc? In a case like this, 42:28 it's like this, Mas. No. Directly, I 42:30 don’t think so. Because, from several 42:33 pieces of information from DPL friends, 42:36 they say this: 42:38 Government officials are afraid to meet 42:40 Israelis because once they meet, the 42:41 next day news comes out in the 42:43 Jerusalem Post. 42:44 Yes. 42:45 They are afraid of that, even if it's 42:46 just an encounter. Well, I tend to 42:50 think it’s behind-the-scenes, 42:52 undercover activity, Mas; intelligence 42:54 agencies have their own community, a 42:57 community that is quite different from 42:59 the diplomatic one. So, I see that 43:03 there is communication taking place. If 43:05 we look at the history of BIN, formerly 43:07 called BAKIN, right? In the beginning, 43:10 the people who founded it had them as 43:12 their mentors; they were their creators 43:15 . Or if we look at Operation Alpha, for 43:19 bringing in F-4 Skyhawk fighters, for 43:21 instance, that was intelligence work at 43:24 the time, reaching such good relations. 43:29 So this is like that, it’s definitely 43:31 the work of intelligence operations, 43:34 and the public truly doesn't know about 43:36 it. 43:38 Hm. 43:40 The public doesn't know. Doctor, can 43:45 you look ahead, besides this Mikdad 43:48 deportation case, what do you think 43:52 might happen, Doc? Is it meant to show 43:57 Palestinians, "Oh, Indonesia has 44:00 changed," or is it to create fear among 44:03 Palestinians regarding Indonesia? What 44:07 do you think, Doc? 44:09 Yes, it is definitely intended so that 44:11 Palestinians have concerns, right? 44:14 concerns over their, uh, presence, 44:17 specifically in Indonesia, are similar 44:19 to the case of Fadi, who was shot in 44:21 Kuala Lumpur, right? Then there was one 44:25 person, a PTI, who was kidnapped by an 44:28 agent network, but locals—local 44:30 people were arrested by the, uh, 44:33 Malaysian police. The strange thing, 44:36 Mas Angga, is that when he was arrested 44:38 , the ones who informed them of the 44:40 arrest were from, from Turkey, 44:41 intelligence, like, uh, how did Turkish 44:43 intelligence know to tell Malaysian 44:45 intelligence that someone was arrested 44:47 and is now here? The Malaysians were 44:49 shocked. Wow, how did Turkey know that, 44:51 right? So, I see that operations in 44:54 Malaysia are indeed, uh, more massively 44:57 conducted by Israel, because Israel has 45:00 large embassies in Bangkok and 45:02 Singapore, right? And it's close to 45:07 Malaysia, to Johor, it's close, uh, so 45:09 there are indeed, uh, efforts made by 45:12 the Mossad to spy on these humanitarian 45:15 activists. And from some friends, I've 45:19 heard that they are also afraid, they 45:21 are living in fear, thinking, "When 45:23 will I be the next target?" So, that is 45:27 why, uh, what the government is doing 45:29 needs to be countered by the public to 45:31 show that, uh, our government is 45:33 different, and the people are behind 45:36 Palestine. 45:37 Yes. I 45:39 whatever happens, we will defend them. 45:44 And this is to change the international 45:46 narrative, so don't think that, uh, we 45:47 are silent, that the people are silent, 45:49 right? That's it, Mas Angga. 45:53 Let's briefly discuss how the media 45:57 plays its role, Doc, because the 46:01 Zionist entity surely uses media for 46:05 agenda setting and framing, right? Take 46:11 the Miqdad case, for example; there 46:13 were news reports, one of which alleged 46:15 that Miqdad was planning terror attacks 46:17 in seven countries. Now, these sources 46:21 came from the Cypriot police. The news 46:24 was spread throughout, uh, throughout 46:27 the world, to the media. In Indonesia 46:31 itself, from your perspective, Doc, 46:34 what is the role of the media in 46:36 Indonesia or NGOs in countering the 46:39 Zionists' agenda setting and their 46:42 media, uh, how is it? Especially 46:46 regarding the cases of Palestinians 46:48 scattered in various countries, or 46:50 generally with other cases, Doc? Well, 46:55 what must be understood, Mas Angga, is 46:57 that seven countries is just too many, 46:59 seven countries. 47:02 So, if we use our logic, our literacy, 47:04 we know that Palestinians do not 47:07 conduct military operations outside 47:09 their own country. 47:12 That is the key: they do not conduct 47:14 operations outside their country. 47:16 So, those who conduct operations 47:17 outside their country are those they 47:18 call "Daesh," right? These people are 47:21 everywhere, and they were originally 47:23 created by America. That's it. So, I 47:27 think agencies like Densus 88, Interpol 47:29 , and also Pak Yusri, should know about 47:31 stories like this; they must know. So, 47:35 without having to verify that 47:36 information more deeply, it's like, " 47:38 What are you talking about?" So, that 47:41 gut feeling really needs to be built, 47:44 right? So when it's pushed, we're like, 47:47 "Oh, it's not like that," without 47:49 digging deeper. Now, this is what I 47:51 think Mr. Yusri doesn't understand 47:53 about the household. So, it means, just 47:57 blindly accepting people's information. 48:00 Oh, right. This is dangerous without 48:03 any cross-checking, without finding out 48:07 if this information is just a hoax, 48:10 right? I mean, it's impossible for 48:13 people in Cyprus to come and say, "Oh, 48:15 this person is pious, kind, rich," and 48:17 then deport them, right? Oh, surely 48:19 they would present something very 48:22 terrifying, even if the information 48:24 comes from Israel. Now, the question is 48:27 this, Mas. I 48:29 If, for example, there was a shooting 48:31 carried out by the Palestinian side or 48:34 anyone against Mossad in Cyprus, for 48:36 instance, that's a different matter. 48:40 A different matter. Now, remember, Mas, 48:43 when the GAM people used to burn things 48:46 in Aceh, it was done by those living in 48:49 Sweden, and Indonesia asked for their 48:51 deportation many times, but it wasn't 48:54 granted. So we also have painful 48:58 experiences of asking for people who 49:00 have harmed Indonesia to be returned, 49:02 and it wasn't granted; we asked for 49:04 complete data. That's why we want to be 49:06 like that when information comes—okay 49:08 , let's use more diplomatic language. 49:10 Okay, we will deport them. Please 49:13 provide us with complete data, then 49:15 come and present it to us. 49:19 Then we will send a team, or we can 49:22 call them in, check with Miqdad, and so 49:25 on. I think there is a confession from 49:28 Miqdad, but we don't know what kind of 49:29 confession. 49:31 Yes. Yes. So it remains a mystery, Mas, 49:34 a mystery, and it affects public trust. 49:37 That’s why we are not satisfied with 49:39 what is being done by especially if it 49:43 has entered the rooms of institutions 49:45 in Indonesia, it's all just unclear, 49:48 right, Doc? For instance, earlier 49:51 the instructions were already direct 49:53 like that. Accepting info without 49:56 checking and re-checking. There is Mr. 49:58 Pepen Supendi who sent a WhatsApp 50:00 message. Peace be upon you, and Allah's 50:02 mercy and blessings. Praise be to God, 50:04 I am tuning in to tonight's broadcast. 50:07 It is sad and very heartbreaking that 50:10 Palestinian citizens are expelled from 50:13 a country that supports Palestine, and 50:16 it hurts those who support an 50:18 independent Palestinian state. It turns 50:23 out Indonesia is actually a member of 50:26 the OP. I see this as perhaps one of 50:30 the effects of that. And it also 50:33 distances Indonesia from Palestine. The 50:36 only way is for Indonesia to get out of 50:38 the OP so there are no other effects. 50:40 What do you think, Doctor? 50:43 Yes, indeed, it has been the case for a 50:44 long time, Mas Angga. H. 50:45 So it has indeed been proposed to leave 50:49 the OP, hasn't it? What is it...uh. The 50:54 criticism is immense, the criticism 50:56 regarding Indonesia's presence in the 50:58 UNIFIL or ISF is really huge. But I 51:01 want to say this, Sangga, that 51:03 Indonesia is actually no stranger to 51:05 providing military aid to parties, er, 51:07 you know, to liberation groups. For 51:10 example, Mas. Yeah. 51:11 There was an operation called Operation 51:13 Babur. It's called the Babur operation. 51:16 Babur means flying carpet operation, 51:18 which was carried out by Pak Harto. Pak 51:21 Harto was incredible, Pak Harto, he 51:22 sent weapons, home-made ones, to where? 51:25 To the mujahideen, the Afghan 51:27 mujahideen, there were two trucks. 51:29 About one or two battalions. 51:32 H. 51:33 AK47s along with their bullets, Sangga, 51:35 this was directly coordinated by Benny 51:37 Murdani and Teddy, ladies and gentlemen 51:38 . Er, Teddy Rusdy, and this shows that 51:41 for Indonesia, it's not something new. 51:44 We aren't saying today that it has to 51:45 be like that, though. But I want to say 51:47 that Indonesia has actually done things 51:49 like that before. How they sent weapons 51:51 to Bosnian fighters, carried out by the 51:54 late, er, who was it, Sutrisno? Su... 51:58 Try Sutrisno, that was done by him. 52:00 That was clearly what was done, 52:02 requested by Pak Harto, and who paid 52:04 for it was, er, Pro Tejo, like our 52:06 involvement in Bosnia. So, Indonesia 52:08 has actually done that. How Indonesia 52:10 sent weapons to Algeria to defend, what 52:13 , to fight against France, for example. 52:16 So, it means Indonesia was truly a 52:19 pioneer back then, Sangga. So now it's 52:22 completely contradictory, even though 52:24 the President says he is a successor to 52:26 Bung Karno, but the reality today is 52:28 something we can question regarding 52:30 Indonesia's commitment. 52:33 Certainly towards Palestine, right? 52:35 Indeed, it is the one remaining country 52:38 , Sangga, in the Asia-Africa conference 52:40 , right? 52:42 Hm. Now, Doctor, we also see that in 52:46 Indonesia now there are many 52:48 Palestinians who are active, besides 52:51 campaigning for Palestinian 52:52 independence, there are also other 52:55 activities like holding seminars or 52:57 being speakers at seminars. Will it 53:01 have an effect, Doc, on the activities 53:03 of these Palestinians who are currently 53:06 in Indonesia? So I see that the 53:11 information I've received is that they, 53:14 er, entered Indonesia, yes. But what 53:19 must also be clarified is that this 53:21 indicates there is concern, concern 53:23 from the government, they say there is 53:25 this concern, Sangga. How Indonesia 53:29 refused some people, er, Palestinian 53:31 prisoners, Israeli prisoners, from 53:33 entering Indonesia, for example, there 53:35 were those who were not given access to 53:37 enter Indonesia. So indeed, primarily. 53:43 is, er, Indonesian literacy towards, er 53:45 . people reading the Quran and things 53:52 like that, they are legitimate. So I 53:55 think their presence in Indonesia 53:56 really brings blessings, the language. 53:59 blessings for us, inviting Indonesian 54:01 children or teenagers to be active. 54:06 from, from them who really, they know 54:09 Arabic well. So, for people whose minds 54:12 are always paranoid, they always think 54:15 like that, Mas, they think there is 54:18 some suspicion that this will be 54:20 something else, but actually, it feels 54:23 unlikely. If we say that all parties 54:27 will be welcoming, there will certainly 54:29 be a small group of parties who are 54:31 slightly worried about their presence 54:33 as their numbers increase. Really. 54:39 Okay, Doctor, that was the response and 54:42 also the questions coming in from 54:44 listeners. Uh, in closing, Doc, we are 54:47 limited by time, uh, Doctor. 54:50 Indonesia's long history of support for 54:54 , uh, Palestine, we see it from the era 54:57 of President Soekarno, uh, to the 54:59 reform era, it shows the consistency of 55:03 how Indonesia, uh, cares, and also its 55:06 solidarity is tested, right, towards 55:09 the struggle of the Palestinian people. 55:13 However, the case of Migdad's 55:16 deportation seems to show a dilemma for 55:20 Indonesia. Uh, how the demands and also 55:24 the pressure from the West, right, in 55:27 this case, uh, Zionists and also the 55:29 United States, although not visible on 55:32 the surface, are felt from within. In 55:35 closing, what are your thoughts, Doc, 55:37 on what we discussed tonight? Yes, I 55:42 think we must become a great nation, 55:44 proud. A great nation, a self-reliant 55:46 nation, an independent nation that 55:48 upholds a free and active foreign 55:50 policy. Yes, we don't need to talk 55:52 about Soekarno, sir. No, let's talk 55:54 about, uh, Megawati as his daughter. 55:57 Now, when George Bush asked for, uh, 55:59 what, Abu Bakar Ba'asyir to be 56:01 extradited to America, Megawati didn't 56:02 want to extradite him, right. So, 56:06 indeed, the current government must 56:08 learn from national figures who really 56:10 have a strong commitment to Palestine. 56:13 So, indeed, not just in the comfort 56:16 zone, but we must also be able to enter 56:19 the zones that have twists and turns. 56:23 So, this Palestine is part of our 56:25 historical responsibility for being 56:27 able to be independent. So, that is not 56:30 just for the community, not just for 56:32 the Indonesian people, but the 56:34 government together, uh, we must free 56:36 Palestine with all kinds of risks that 56:38 we have to accept, like what happened 56:39 to Malaysia. I think that's it, Mas 56:42 Angga. Alright, Dr. Ben. Alhamdulillah, 56:48 uh, our dialogue tonight hopefully 56:50 provides enlightenment for Rasil 56:52 listeners, Dr. Ben. God willing, 56:56 especially in the month of August, Doc, 56:58 the month of independence, we will look 57:00 for topics later 57:02 for this "Open Your Ears" program. 57:05 Hopefully, you are always healthy, 57:06 Doctor. God willing, we will meet again 57:07 . 57:08 Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. 57:10 Brothers and sisters who are blessed by 57:11 Allah SWT. That concludes our "Open 57:13 Your Eyes, Open Your Ears" program 57:15 tonight with Dr. Sarbini Abdul Murad. 57:19 Hopefully, what we have discussed and 57:21 conveyed is useful for you all. Thank 57:25 you very much for your company and we 57:27 apologize for any mistakes in our words 57:28 ; the team on duty in the studio is 57:30 signing off. Billahi taufik wal hidayah 57:33 . Subhanakallahumma wabihamdika ashadu 57:35 alla ilaha illa anta astagfiruka wa 57:37 atubu ilaik. Assalamu'alaikum 57:38 warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. 57:40 Wa'alaikumsalam warahmatullah. 
