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0:01 Brail TV. 0:09 Peace be upon you, and God's mercy and 0:11 blessings. How are you, Dr. Ben? 0:13 And peace be upon you, and God's mercy 0:15 and blessings. I'm doing well, Mr. 0:16 Ihsan. 0:17 Praise be to God. Yes, brother. This is 0:21 a story about the world. It’s not 0:24 heading toward a third world war, but 0:26 it is losing its brakes. Wow, the 0:28 brakes are almost completely gone, 0:29 aren't they? Because there really is a 0:31 lot making us dizzy, yes. Saudi Arabia 0:33 is currently irritable, isn't it, 0:35 regarding the Houthis. They've been 0:37 provoked, haven't they? They were told 0:39 not to poke the hornet's nest, yet the 0:41 airport was bombed too; eventually, 0:43 chaos ensued. Yes, they wanted to ask 0:47 Turkey and Pakistan for help, but why 0:49 ask America for help instead? Only 0:53 their spies, it is said, their 0:55 intelligence. Britain was also asked. 0:58 Hey, help me out. You take the money, 1:00 but you don't provide the help. What is 1:02 happening with this story, brother? And 1:05 of course, other stories too. Algeria 1:08 has severed ties with the United Arab 1:10 Emirates. Ah, meanwhile, uh, Iran is 1:14 joining hands with them again. What is 1:19 going on here? Is that really the case? 1:21 Uh, Iran's change in strategy going 1:23 forward will be in the spotlight. The 1:26 chaos at the Pentagon is also another 1:28 part of the story regarding America's 1:30 security agenda. Even the Secretary of 1:33 Defense is being summoned, or something 1:35 , to be removed by Congress, along with 1:37 various other stories from the world, 1:39 including from Iran and Ansarullah, who 1:42 seem to have already mastered the Bab 1:44 el-Mandeb. And what's the news from 1:47 Indonesia? I don't know, maybe we want 1:51 to look at the ethics regarding the 1:52 Finance Minister yesterday and so on. 1:55 Please, Dr. Sarbini Abdul Murad, 1:57 perhaps you could provide some 1:59 enlightenment on the various stories in 2:01 this world and Indonesia for the next 2:03 30 minutes. Please, Dr. Ben. 2:08 Uh, thank you, Mr. Ihsan. We see, Mr. 2:11 Ihsan, that the problem between Saudi 2:14 and this is not over. Hmm. 2:17 Well, after the date in 2022 that was 2:19 initiated by China, 2:23 they called Iran and Saudi to each 2:26 secure their proxies. 2:28 Yes. 2:29 But it doesn't seem finished, sir. 2:31 Because this is a spillover or an 2:34 implication of America's attacks on 2:37 Iran. So actually, I remember clearly 2:40 in the story of the Handa war, Mr. 2:42 Ihsan. The Kandan war, right? 2:44 Or this Azam war, this is an allied war 2:46 , right? Meaning in the context of 2:48 these allies, well, maybe we are 2:50 speaking a bit bluntly. Meaning America 2:53 is pushing its allies that are Arab 2:55 countries to hit Iran. 2:57 Yes. 2:58 So, those known as Iran's proxies 3:00 certainly won't stay silent, Mr. Ihsan. 3:02 So, 3:03 uh, they will also poke back and will 3:05 also help Iran as much as they can. So, 3:09 the issue of the initial Saudi Arabian 3:11 attack on the Houthis was when a group 3:14 returning from a pilgrimage, from 3:16 paying respects for the passing of a 3:19 judge, was accused of smuggling weapons 3:21 and all sorts of things; that was the 3:24 beginning of it, sir. So, there was 3:28 indeed a blockade carried out by Saudi 3:29 Arabia, an air blockade, sir. So... 3:32 All aircraft entering those regions 3:34 must indeed have permission from the 3:36 Saudi side, yes. So, actually, 3:39 initially, when there was a peace 3:41 agreement or negotiations between Iran 3:43 and Saudi, it wasn't completed, sir. I 3:46 mean, how could a blockade not be 3:47 resolved, you know? So, after Saudi 3:50 Arabia launched these attacks, it could 3:52 be that this was a request from America 3:55 . Who else but America? So our naive 3:59 question is, sir, why are they so 4:01 easily provoked? H 4:05 Indeed, if we discuss this more deeply, 4:08 sir, it's quite complicated, and we 4:09 will enter a labyrinth; I don't know, 4:11 it's very tangled. 4:14 So actually 4:16 It's very tangled; simply put, Saudi 4:19 Arabia already knows that the Houthis 4:21 today are not the Houthis from before 4:24 the war started; they are sophisticated 4:26 now, sir. 4:29 Their equipment, their war tactics, and 4:31 everything else are very high quality 4:33 now, surpassing Saudi Arabia, since 4:35 Saudi relies more on America. 4:39 Relying on Pakistani soldiers stationed 4:41 in Saudi Arabia, right. 4:43 So, in terms of qualifications, they 4:45 are below the Houthis, added to the 4:48 ideological factor. Mr. Ihsan. 4:50 Imagine, Mr. Ihsan. 4:53 Saudi is trying to mobilize the tribes 4:55 or clans that are in the vicinity. 4:58 They just get crushed, sir. So, when 5:01 they are struck by the Houthis, it's 5:04 usually over. Why? Because these tribes 5:06 are not trained soldiers. 5:08 They are paid to fight the Houthis. The 5:10 Houthis are trained. It's like 5:12 comparing earth and sky, what's 5:13 happening. Now, the position has 5:15 reached 5:18 Bab el-Mandeb is controlled by the 5:20 Houthis, so they can control the flow 5:22 of ships. 5:24 Now, America, sir, why aren't they 5:26 helping? In 1945, there was an 5:29 agreement between [the US] and Abdul 5:32 Aziz; there was an agreement that Saudi 5:35 Arabia would use the dollar for oil 5:38 transactions. 5:40 But America provides protection, sir, 5:42 for Saudi Arabia. That security 5:45 arrangement was valid for 50 years, sir 5:47 . 5:48 So, it could actually be corrected, but 5:50 there hasn't been a cancellation yet. 5:52 So, what does that mean? The agreement 5:54 is indirectly still in effect, and 5:57 America, whether asked or not, must 5:59 help Saudi Arabia. 6:03 Saudi. But the problem is, the Houthis 6:07 have already warned, "We are only 6:09 blockading ships heading to Saudi 6:12 Arabia or Saudi ships." 6:15 Meaning, America shouldn't get involved 6:17 . Actually, Trump backed off, sir, 6:19 because of this Houthi threat not to 6:21 interfere, and it was proven several 6:23 years ago that it didn't work. 6:26 To localize. Now, that's why, for 6:31 instance, America also doesn't want to 6:34 get involved, asking Turkey and 6:38 and Iran. 6:39 There are Pakistan and other reasons, 6:42 which in my opinion, are reasons 6:45 conveyed by parties other than Pakistan 6:49 and Turkey themselves. So 6:53 these two countries, Pakistan and 6:54 Turkey, will help Saudi if there is a 6:56 ratification. That ratification is done 7:00 by 7:01 their respective parliaments, right. 7:04 That is explicit language, Sir, there 7:06 is explicit language. Oh, I'm not 7:10 getting involved with the Houthis if 7:11 Iran is there; I'm not looking at the 7:13 Houthis, Sir, even if they were others, 7:15 it’s not the point, it’s the 7:16 Iranian presence. Hm. 7:19 Imagine the upheaval, imagine, Sir, if 7:21 for example Turkey helped, let’s say 7:23 H 7:24 the PKK, these Kurdish party forces 7:27 they could be mobilized by Iran, right 7:30 could be mobilized 7:31 so Syria becomes turbulent again, like 7:34 that, right 7:35 now, it’s the same between Turkey and 7:38 Iran. 7:39 That could mobilize the Kurdish people, 7:42 causing internal problems for Turkey 7:45 same as Pakistan. Kindness. If he were 7:47 to help, uh, what is it, the Houthi 7:49 movement, 7:50 he could also mobilize the Shia people 7:53 in Pakistan 7:54 or he could help Afghanistan to strike, 7:57 uh, Pakistan. 7:58 So those are the calculations, those 8:00 are the geopolitical calculations. 8:03 Hm. Yes. Now, that’s why I said at 8:06 the beginning, I said it’s 8:08 effectively useless because we haven't 8:10 determined who the real enemy is, the 8:12 enemy we must strike, you know. 8:14 Now, this, Sir, in my opinion, 8:16 regarding Saudi, is that it has entered 8:19 a labyrinth, Sir, it doesn't know how 8:21 to get out. So, what’s the end result 8:23 ? It has to approach Iran, Sir, saying, 8:25 "Please, Iran," in our terms, "Help me 8:27 out," right. Eh, right, it’s China, 8:29 the role, the role of China as a big 8:31 broker, China’s role, especially with 8:34 that long handshake with Modi yesterday 8:37 , China, this Xi Jinping. This has 8:40 become a major influential factor in 8:42 the Middle East, this China. What do 8:44 you think, brother? 8:45 Yes, we really can't separate it, Sir 8:47 we cannot separate it from how China is 8:49 developing. China is the second 8:50 superpower now after America. 8:52 Hm. Now, Sir, if for example, Sir 8:56 Saudi asks for help from China or Iran 8:58 to tame the Houthis, Iran would ask for 9:00 concessions, it’s impossible to just 9:02 say okay, okay, that's not possible 9:05 that’s Indonesia, "Okay, okay, I’ll 9:07 help, I’ll do whatever," right 9:10 h 9:11 h 9:11 so if Iran helps, Iran would surely say 9:14 , "Okay, I’ll help, but get those 9:16 Americans out"" 9:18 oh, remove those bases," yes, yes, 9:20 right, and it has indeed been proven 9:23 that America cannot help because its 9:25 bases have been 9:28 almost destroyed, they were targeted, 9:31 and Iran’s diplomacy before targeting 9:33 them went back and forth to Saudi and 9:35 various Arab countries too. What was 9:38 discussed? God only knows. Brother 9:41 there was a meeting, Sir, a meeting 9:44 with, uh, the foreign ministers of the 9:47 Gulf states, right, in, uh 9:49 that’s right. H 9:50 where was that? In Bahrain, or maybe, 9:52 uh, in Oman, right. In Oman, right. One 9:54 of the things was that 9:56 they would follow, they would follow 9:58 what was decided between Oman and Iran, 10:00 right. This indicates that 10:03 the important thing is not to have 10:04 trouble, the important thing is that 10:05 our access is secure, our ships are 10:07 safe, and all that. 10:09 Eh, pragmatic, Sir, in business, it’s 10:10 pragmatic, right. So, I would say that 10:14 the communication between the Crown 10:17 Prince of the UAE and the President of 10:20 Iran is part of a political game. In 10:25 politics, there is pragmatism, and 10:28 there are no permanent enemies or 10:30 permanent friends, you know. Indeed. 10:35 Okay, the UAE is besties with America 10:37 and Israel, which is the opposite of 10:39 Iran. But in this context, there are 10:43 pragmatic political interests; the 10:45 point is, we just don't want to 10:47 interfere with one another. So, I see 10:53 that the UAE's approach to Iran is in 10:56 the context of political and economic 10:59 pragmatism, not a long-term friendship 11:02 like the one built between the UAE and 11:06 America, or with Israel. 11:10 Yes. But this chaos has caused Israel 11:14 to become more dominant in the West 11:17 Bank and Gaza. Does this also affect 11:22 developments in the coming months 11:24 regarding the elections in both America 11:27 and Israel? What are they seeing? And 11:31 there were also explosions yesterday, 11:33 reportedly from Iraq, who was behind it 11:36 ? Who is behind it? Is this truly a 11:39 trigger to incite conflict or pit them 11:41 against each other, or what, brother? 11:46 Well, there is indeed pressure here. 11:49 Pressure between the Republican party 11:52 and Benjamin Netanyahu's party. Oh, I 11:55 see. 11:56 So, what is the problem? The problem 12:00 today is that America is still in a 12:03 state of tension. 12:06 With Iran. So if they want to attack 12:09 Iran again and Iran retaliates, this 12:11 will greatly affect the elections in 12:14 America. And the issue today is that 12:19 Benjamin Netanyahu still exists in the 12:21 Israeli public. Research shows that 12:24 Israeli citizens actually agree with 12:27 the massacre in Gaza. So, there is a 12:31 major problematic orientation between 12:34 Benjamin and the Israeli citizens. 12:39 For Israelis now, the massacre of 12:41 Palestinians is just normal. 12:43 Expulsions are just normal because, 12:45 indeed, 12:47 Benjamin's voters and his coalition 12:49 come from there. If he were moderate, 12:53 he wouldn't have been elected, just 12:55 like Naftali Bennett and Barak. They 12:58 tried to be more centrist. They weren't 13:01 left or right. 13:02 So they lost. 13:05 So for the people of Gaza and 13:07 Palestinians, Ben Gvir and the others 13:10 are all the same. Hm. 13:13 That is why today, according to the 13:16 polls, Benjamin is still leading with 13:18 his coalitions. 13:21 He's crazy. Yes. Earlier we were 13:25 discussing Algeria and the United Arab 13:27 Emirates. We also see that in Sudan, 13:31 there seems to be a shadow of the 13:33 United Arab Emirates 'role, and the 13:35 fact that the UAE is also getting cozy 13:37 with Israel adds another layer to the 13:39 story. What is happening? They simply 13:43 reported that the United Arab Emirates 13:45 was engaging in provocative and hostile 13:47 actions. All their ambassadors were 13:50 expelled. What exactly is going on? 13:53 Perhaps Dr. Ben can explain this 13:55 particular saga. 13:57 Yes. We see, Mr. Isan, that the United 14:00 Arab Emirates, the UAE, has indeed been 14:02 carrying out several interventions in 14:04 countries that...... 14:06 that really have, what is it, large 14:09 mines, yes. 14:11 So, let's look at Sudan for example, 14:12 Mr. Isan. But why isn't Sudan finished 14:14 yet today, Mr. Isan? Because South 14:17 Sudan is a gold producer, and the UAE 14:19 is trying to take control of that. 14:23 Now, it's the same with Algeria, Mr. 14:25 Isan, that Algeria...... 14:28 has a region called Western Sahara, or 14:29 what people call Polisario. Now, 14:33 Western Sahara, to this day, has not 14:35 been resolved; is it owned by Algeria 14:37 or by Morocco? So, one of the reasons 14:41 why Morocco recognized Israel and 14:42 joined the Accords is because of this 14:45 issue, sir; it is the most essential 14:47 part, this Western Sahara, so the 14:49 Sahara is disputed by these two 14:50 countries, Algeria and this one. 14:54 So, because of that, the United Arab 14:55 Emirates is trying to play a role there 14:58 because the region is truly rich, Mr. 15:00 Isan, it is very rich. That region has 15:03 not been explored by anyone yet, Mr. 15:04 Isan. So they are trying to get in 15:06 there. Now, this is the actual basis, 15:09 sir, the reason their relationship is 15:12 very, very unfriendly, sir. Added to 15:15 that are the Sahel regions, sir. The 15:16 Sahel regions are areas that...... 15:19 the Sahel regions are areas that are 15:21 neighbors, well, the outskirts of 15:23 Africa, so to speak, Mr. Isan. All of 15:26 those are incredible mineral producers, 15:28 Mr. Isan. So, the point is that the UAE 15:31 is essentially looking for that, Mr. 15:32 Isan. So, if, for example, Algeria 15:35 allows the United Arab Emirates to play 15:38 in the Western Sahara region, it will 15:40 result in a sharper constellation of 15:43 conflicts. So, the reason why the 15:46 Polisario issue hasn't been cleared up 15:49 today—whether it's part of Morocco or 15:51 part of Algeria—is because it's still 15:53 being fiercely debated, sir. Now, that 15:57 is why Morocco, through Israel and 15:59 through the United Arab Emirates, is 16:01 trying to get it recognized as part of 16:03 Morocco. Mr. Isan, this is what makes 16:06 Algeria furious. Now, we actually 16:09 already understand, sir. They play in 16:11 Yemen, then they play in Sudan, and now 16:14 they are also playing in the Sahara. 16:17 The core of it all is, what is it, 16:19 mining; it is all about the economy, 16:21 Mr. Isan. So, it's true that if they 16:24 play alone, it's impossible—I don't 16:26 think it's possible for the UAE to play 16:28 alone; they must be partnering with 16:29 Israel because they don't have the 16:31 capability, the sufficient military 16:32 capability to face other countries. But 16:35 that is why he is trying to cooperate 16:37 with Israel because he knows that it 16:38 ultimately leads to America, so 16:40 this tripartite is truly being carried 16:42 out to the maximum by Mr. Isa. So, uh, 16:45 this is what I think 16:48 in my video I said that, yes 16:52 they must realize this, they must 16:54 repent, that is the term, they must 16:57 repent, meaning 17:00 it seems he has repented in facing Iran 17:02 , is it like that, Doc? How do you see 17:05 it? 17:06 Yes, but that is still pragmatism, very 17:09 pragmatic, but like it or not, the 17:11 distance between Iran and them is very 17:13 close, just a stone's throw away. 17:15 Correct. 17:17 Uh, so he doesn't need to use 17:19 sophisticated missiles to strike the 17:21 UAE. So with simple missiles, the Arabs 17:24 would already be overwhelmed. But the 17:27 point is pragmatism, pragmatism. So, I 17:30 mean as I said earlier, yes, the 17:31 important thing is we have differences, 17:34 but even if we have only a few, these 17:36 similarities are what we will try to 17:38 explore. But the problem is, Sir, would 17:41 Iran agree if, for example, the UAE 17:44 still keeps its Israeli military 17:46 advisors there or American bases are 17:49 still there? We don't know that yet, 17:51 Sir. This is just a visit, this is 17:53 symbolic, there will be, there will be, 17:55 there will be further thought. And the 17:57 one who came was not the president or 17:59 the supreme leader of the UAE. It was 18:02 the crown prince, meaning there is no, 18:04 there is no clear agreement yet. 18:07 that is clear, so this perhaps hasn't 18:09 been discussed 18:10 pragmatic, still, yes, correct 18:12 i 18:14 yes, and, uh, uh, I am impressed, 18:17 Doctor, with Mr. Prabowo's visit to 18:20 Russia recently, in that meeting if I'm 18:24 not mistaken, Putin spoke about 18:27 Indonesia's role in global upheaval as 18:30 the largest Islamic country with a 18:33 significant population. But it seems 18:38 what is happening is we are busy with 18:41 ethical issues, how to dismiss people, 18:43 and matters of the stomach, free 18:46 nutritious meals, and so on. How does 18:49 Dr. Ben see it? 18:51 I see it like this, Sir, that Putin, as 18:54 time goes by, shows less respect for 18:57 Prabowo. I see it, Sir. 18:59 Oh, 18:59 less respect. So, so actually such a 19:02 speech should not be given by a 19:04 president. The impression is that he 19:06 was advising 19:07 advising Prabowo. Advising, and that is 19:10 not, not appropriate in terms of ethics 19:13 uh, what kind of relationship, in that 19:14 conversation it's not appropriate. So I 19:16 see that it seems Putin sees that 19:17 Prabowo cannot be relied upon, the 19:18 person doesn't have a clear direction, 19:20 which is the tail and which is the head 19:21 is not clear with this person. 19:23 he means break, okay okay, Sir, he 19:28 doesn't have a stance, Sir, so a 19:30 country that has sovereignty must have 19:31 a stance, Sir, so 19:34 it's as if it's useless to break, break 19:36 today, Sir, break, so all 19:39 all we see is that how many, how many 19:41 points were closed at that time, not, 19:43 not input from this, I am, I am only 19:45 guessing. Wow, this is part of the 19:47 agreement. Yes. 19:48 But we don't know whether this will be 19:50 profitable or not for Indonesia's 19:52 position, we really don't know. But in 19:55 my opinion, sir, for example, Indonesia 19:57 shouldn't join BRICS, we've... 20:00 meaning we should just take our own 20:01 stance. Even if we do join, it really 20:04 must be for our national interest, that 20:06 has to be there. Not just following the 20:09 crowd, like the Acehnese say, we 20:11 shouldn't just be part of the herd, 20:13 just following along, you know. Now, 20:17 let's look back, sir, for example, take 20:20 Purubaya, we saw when he first became 20:22 minister, people's expectations were 20:25 high, he wore that 8%hat. 8%economic 20:30 growth. 20:33 But as time went on, it became more and 20:36 more, well, it's just the same as 20:38 before, but we must realize that the 20:41 Finance Minister is the state's cashier 20:44 . 20:46 Yeah. But because there were initial 20:48 expectations, throughout the journey. 20:51 Now, Purubaya was too bold in my 20:53 opinion, even though I don't fully 20:55 agree with Mahfud MD who said that, 20:58 according to Mahfud, Purubaya talked 21:00 too much and made too many empty 21:02 promises. But I don't see it that way, 21:05 sir. If it's about speaking wrongly, 21:08 then everyone from Prabowo down speaks 21:10 wrongly, our ministers speak correctly 21:12 but the president is like that, let 21:14 alone... 21:15 turning left and right, yeah. 21:17 Yeah. But I see it, sir, that... 21:20 he was sidelined because he disrupted 21:22 bigger interests, Isa. 21:25 Both within his financial ranks and 21:28 then, uh, with... 21:30 the business people, the mining 21:32 entrepreneurs, the iron, all those 21:34 taxes, that's the issue, sir, and 21:36 especially with limited access to Mr. 21:39 Prabowo, he only hears information from 21:41 people close to him about Purubaya, 21:43 right? 21:45 Now, this is the result of Nazarrani, I 21:47 don't know, sir. From the start, his 21:49 wealth report was overflowing, sir. Isa 21:52 . So, with his typical personality, he 21:55 really is a calm and kind person, right 21:57 ? 21:57 Yes. Yes. 21:58 He wants to make a fuss. 22:00 It's just that, in the middle of it 22:02 earlier, I looked for data on the 22:03 phrase "better to go broke than to lose 22:05 fame." It turns out three out of 10 22:08 Indonesians adhere to that principle 22:10 according to a study. Isn't that right, 22:13 Doc? Heh. 22:14 Yeah. 22:15 So that's why, Mr. Isa, that's why I am 22:17 increasingly worried, Mr. Isa, worried 22:20 about... 22:21 the fate of this nation's journey. 22:23 Especially because the Finance Minister 22:25 is a very, very important minister, the 22:26 most important in the ranks, he 22:28 shouldn't be affiliated with a 22:29 political party. 22:31 And, and in this way, sir, that... 22:34 usually in an organization, the finance 22:36 department is hated by many, isn't that 22:38 right, Doc? Yes, that's why the more 22:41 people hate you, the better, sir. 22:43 That's the point, right? My goodness. 22:47 What is Dr. Ben's message amidst the 22:49 turmoil at home and abroad? Is there 22:54 still hope, or how is it? Your advice 22:57 as a closing to our talk at the 32nd 22:59 minute this morning. Please, Doctor. 23:03 Yes, sir. We we hope that Indonesia 23:05 will be better, Indonesia will be more 23:07 prominent, Indonesia will 23:09 will become, well, what is it, truly 23:11 become a "baldatun thayyibatun wa 23:13 rabbun ghafur" nation. 23:16 So, these are the very deep hopes from 23:19 all of us, Sir, that we remain 23:20 optimistic that Indonesia in the future 23:23 will experience many changes, will be 23:25 better, our leaders, we will have truly 23:28 good leaders. Yes, we continue to aim 23:31 for good things, Mr. Isa, and also to 23:33 the Islamic world, especially the 23:35 Islamic world, Mr. Isa, that we hope 23:37 and ask that the Arab leaders have 23:39 their hearts opened to defend Palestine 23:41 , Sir. So, this is actually what we 23:44 need to, what is it, really hope for, 23:46 because two nights ago I had a meeting 23:48 with Palestinians, Sir, a meeting with 23:50 Palestinians, and I said this to my 23:51 friends, Sir: 23:54 that we have no doubts about Indonesia, 23:55 whether the government or the people, 23:57 in defending Palestine, in helping 23:59 Palestine, in defending Palestine, we 24:00 never doubt it anymore. But the problem 24:03 today, I said this to my Palestinian 24:05 guests, 24:07 we today do not oppose Israel; we say 24:10 we help Palestine but we don't dare to 24:12 oppose Israel, so it's not total, 24:14 actually. So, so we are concerned, Sir, 24:17 yes. It is useless for the elements of 24:19 the nation who are concerned with 24:21 Palestine to keep supporting Palestine 24:23 if we leave gaps where we don't oppose 24:25 Israel. We hope to close those gaps to 24:28 oppose Israel, regarding trade, the 24:30 issue of tourists who come to Indonesia 24:32 in large numbers, then Israeli parties, 24:34 and other things that we must oppose. 24:36 And this truly requires strong energy, 24:39 needs unity, needs a long breath, Mr. 24:41 Ihsan. 24:42 It needs, well, to be truly strong, Mr. 24:44 Ihsan, so I say that, uh, the green 24:46 uniforms, the brown uniforms, and even 24:48 those without uniforms now are already 24:50 connected to Israel. So, 24:52 so this is what I said to my 24:54 Palestinian guests, Sir. This is our 24:57 problem, where our RI 1 (President) is 25:00 indeed very close to the people in his 25:02 inner circle. So, this is a test for us 25:06 all; I say that for Indonesia to be 25:09 safe, 25:10 it cannot be safe if it recognizes 25:12 Israel as an entity, a country, Mr. 25:14 Isra. 25:14 Masha'Allah. Masha'Allah. Thank you, 25:16 Dr. Ben. It seems long-term energy must 25:19 always be maintained regarding this 25:21 Palestinian independence. Thank you, 25:24 Dr. Sarbini Abdul Murad, until, uh, oh, 25:26 Sunday night, right? Keep eyes open, 25:29 keep ears open, Doc, yes. Oh, the 25:31 following week, and of course on 25:33 Thursday, next week. Assalamu'alaikum 25:36 warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, Doc. 25:38 Wa'alaikumussalam warahmatullahi 25:39 wabarakatuh. 
