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1:35 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 1:46 >> In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious 1:48 , the Most Merciful. Peace be upon you, 1:50 and Allah's mercy and blessings. Praise 1:52 be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, and 1:53 may prayers and peace be upon our 1:55 master Muhammad, and upon his family 1:57 and companions all. Broadcasting from 2:07 Jalan Masjid Silaturahim number 36 2:08 Kalimanggis, Cibubur, Bekasi, this is 2:10 Radio Silaturahim and Rasil TV for one 2:12 Islam. Brothers and sisters, may Allah 2:16 the Almighty bless you, how are you 2:18 doing this evening? Wherever you may be 2:21 . I am very happy this evening, I am 2:25 Angga Aminudin, accompanied by the crew 2:28 on duty tonight, Muhammad Fahri at the 2:31 operator's desk, and also Atep 2:33 Setiabudi on camera. We are here on 2:37 this Sunday, brothers and sisters, 2:40 October 11, 2026, the second week of 2:44 this month. And we are here for the 2:47 program "Open Your Eyes, Open Your Ears 2:50 " with Dr. Sarbini Abdul Murad, 2:52 Director of Indonesia for Peace and 2:54 Humanity, who has joined us via Zoom 2:56 meeting. Peace be upon you, and Allah's 3:00 mercy and blessings, Dr. Ben. 3:02 >> And peace be upon you, and Allah's 3:03 mercy and blessings, Mas Angga, 3:06 >> how are you doing today, Doc? 3:08 >> Praise be to Allah. Praise be to Allah. 3:10 Praise be to Allah. So, being a 3:12 director of, uh, what is it? Uh, a 3:16 humanitarian organization, how busy is 3:18 it, Doctor? Well, the point is, Mas 3:23 Angga, we just have to manage our time, 3:25 Mas Angga. Yes. 3:29 >> Uh, we can handle the things that we 3:32 really need to prioritize. 3:34 >> Hmm. Praise be to Allah, Doc, we can 3:37 broadcast live again. We will raise the 3:40 topic of why Iran and Saudi Arabia are 3:43 playing a role in the Yemen conflict. 3:46 Right, is that it, Doc? We will discuss 3:49 that topic, and tonight who are we 3:52 planning to invite? Dr. Ben. Yes, Mas 3:57 Angga, indeed this topic, in my opinion 4:01 , is a topic that is trending, and many 4:05 are sensitive about this topic, so we 4:09 are raising it. Uh, so if, for example, 4:13 someone says the wrong thing or 4:16 supports the wrong side, for instance, 4:19 a stigma will arise from the 4:21 sensitivity of many people. So, that is 4:24 why we chose the theme for this evening 4:26 , uh, Mas Angga. 4:28 >> So, we are, uh, inviting Mr. Wowik, 4:32 Marigud Wik. So, Mr. Maru, he is indeed 4:36 concerned with the field of geopolitics 4:38 . Uh, but he messaged me earlier saying 4:42 that he will join around 8:30 because 4:45 he has an event outside that he cannot 4:48 leave. And I think by inviting him 4:52 later, uh, we can try to look at many 4:54 sides of society, I think. 4:58 >> As a political observer, we are not, 5:00 what is it, not trapped by, uh, what is 5:03 it, the framing of certain people or 5:06 certain groups. But we will talk about 5:10 it openly, uh, what is it, in a real 5:13 way, so that we can each draw our own 5:16 conclusions from the conflict happening 5:19 , what is happening today in Yemen 5:21 between Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the 5:24 Arabs. Yes. 5:26 >> So we are trying this, Mas Angga, we 5:28 are just providing literacy, so to 5:29 speak, to the public. 5:32 >> So that they understand, in the end, if 5:34 someone is disappointed or takes a side 5:36 , that is a secondary matter. 5:40 >> This topic has indeed been discussed 5:42 several times. However, the updates 5:46 continue to be of public concern, right 5:48 , Dr. Ben? I also actually want to look 5:53 at the role of Indonesia, specifically 5:56 the government, in this case, the 5:58 Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Especially 6:02 now with the new posture, you know, 6:04 even though they have the same 6:06 background as Ministry of Foreign 6:08 Affairs personnel, they are now 6:09 ministers. We also want to see what the 6:13 Indonesian government's response has 6:14 been so far. However, Doc, while we 6:17 wait for Bang Wowi Mardigo, Doc. Now, 6:20 this is an update regarding 6:23 >> the conflict in Yemen, Iran, and Saudi 6:27 Arabia. Many say it's clear, you know. 6:31 It's clear, they say, many say they are 6:34 clearly involved. Now, in the Yemen 6:37 conflict as part of the regional 6:41 rivalry. If we want to talk about this 6:45 regional rivalry, meaning both the 6:48 visible and the invisible, Doc, what in 6:50 your observation and analysis, Doc, is 6:53 it actually? 6:56 >> Well, yes, indeed, no. After I studied 7:00 it, I tried to delve into this case, 7:03 that there is indeed a*visible hand* 7:06 occurring. There are parties who, 7:10 quote-unquote, the public cannot ignore 7:13 , it cannot be said that, "We are not 7:15 involved," or, "Well, that is each 7:18 country's internal affair," right? But 7:23 I do see that the issue today, Mas 7:26 Rangga, is that these outside parties 7:29 are the ones making Yemen unstable to 7:32 this day. 7:35 >> So each has their own arguments why I 7:37 should defend the Houthis, for example, 7:40 or why I should defend the PLC or the 7:42 STC, for instance. So, all of them have 7:47 arguments that are indeed reasonable 7:50 from their own perspectives. Now, as a 7:54 geopolitics practitioner, it's clear 7:58 that there are parties trying to create 8:03 a condition where Yemen must not be 8:07 stable. Why shouldn't it be stable? 8:12 Because it's a vast country with 40 8:15 million people, Mas Rangga, with 8:17 resources that I think aren't inferior 8:20 to other Gulf countries, plus a very 8:24 strategic geography, close to 8:26 Somaliland, close to Djibouti, and 8:29 close to Bab el-Mandeb, which is a very 8:32 narrow strait that plays a very 8:35 strategic role. So, the Iranian side 8:39 also has an interest in monitoring it 8:43 so they can safeguard that which is 9:03 very strategic, even if only 10%of 9:05 international shipping passes through, 9:07 carrying goods needed by countries, 9:09 especially in Europe. That holds a key 9:13 role at the Bab el-Mandeb strait, which 9:16 later influences the Suez, right, the 9:19 Suez as well. 9:22 >> Now, I think, Mas Rangga, today we will 9:25 try to enter, realizing that actually 9:28 ...What are the interests of Iran, 9:35 Saudi Arabia, and countries like 9:37 America and Israel, that make Yemen so 9:40 important to them? And what is behind 9:44 that, Mas Angga? Must we only see that 9:47 it is so very difficult to achieve 9:50 peace? Why is it so hard? 9:52 >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Hm. But if we look at it 9:58 from the Yemeni factor, Doc, is it true 10:02 that Yemen can easily become a proxy 10:06 war battlefield for Saudi Arabia and 10:10 Iran? 10:15 >> Well, I see it this way, Sir. In 10:18 geopolitical theory, proxy resistance 10:22 is important for a country's stability. 10:27 So, why, for example, does Saudi Arabia 10:30 have an interest in, let’s say, with 10:33 groups that are not...Whatever the 10:39 interests are, there must be interests 10:41 they are trying to weave in there, so 10:43 in my opinion, Mas Angga, the main 10:45 interest is actually...... 10:48 >> the anxiety or the turmoil, yes, the 10:51 turmoil among Gulf countries, 10:53 especially Saudi Arabia which borders 10:56 Yemen, if they are unstable. I see it 11:01 more as a sense of turmoil among these 11:04 Arab countries, so they have an 11:07 interest in ensuring it doesn't exist 11:10 and cannot become a globally recognized 11:13 state entity. So we see, Mas Angga, in 11:18 2011 or 2012, there was a unification 11:21 between North Yemen and South Yemen. 11:25 >> Yes. Then we know there were massive 11:29 demonstrations among students to 11:33 overthrow Abdullah Saleh. So, that is 11:39 where the rise of the Houthi groups 11:41 occurred, Mas Angga, who eventually, in 11:44 any case, formed a coalition with the 11:47 allies of Abdullah Saleh to fight over 11:50 the capital, Sanaa. Now, from that 11:53 point on, I think Saudi Arabia had an 11:55 interest. If they didn't intervene, Mas 11:57 Angga, with the minimal strength of the 11:59 pro-Saudi groups, let's call them 12:00 pro-Saudi. Honestly, I must say that 12:06 between Sunni and Shia, it cannot be 12:09 separated; Iran’s assistance cannot 12:13 be detached from sectarian ties, so 12:16 I’ve studied whether it is inherent. 12:23 >> Even if we don't like it. So, in a 12:26 discussion, I once said this. 12:28 >> When the Houthis attack Israel, I 12:31 support the Houthis. 12:33 >> Uh-huh. 12:34 >> I support them. But when the Houthis 12:36 attack Saudi Arabia, well, hold on a 12:38 minute. 12:40 >> Well, hold on a minute. Well, this is, 12:42 this is what I mean, so... 12:44 >> What do I mean, Angga? That there must 12:47 indeed be an integrated understanding 12:49 in viewing the situation and conditions 12:51 in Yemen. For me, Angga. For me, 12:54 actually, perhaps for all of us, 12:56 including the Muslim community in 12:58 Indonesia. For us, the point is that it 13:01 would be better if they were safe, 13:03 peaceful, and stable. Yes, with their 13:06 own ways of resolving their internal 13:08 problems, that is our hope, forced. 13:11 >> Yes. But if that happens, then the 13:15 dominant groups will be non-Houthi 13:18 groups because their popularity 13:22 >> is around 70-80%, excuse me, those are 13:26 the Sunni groups there, and if 13:29 democracy is encouraged by 13:32 international parties, this will create 13:36 political gaps in Yemen. So, I think, 13:40 okay, maybe they have their own ways to 13:45 integrate their groups into a system of 13:49 government. It is up to them whether 13:53 they fill the tribes 13:55 >> or if the tribes can determine their 13:57 own future or how, but do not enter the 13:59 military; if they enter the military, 14:01 it will be complicated and difficult. 14:04 So I think like this, why, for example, 14:07 has Saudi Arabia long blockaded the Red 14:10 Sea so that 14:12 >> Yemen is blocked by Saudi Arabia. So 14:15 the recent attack by Saudi Arabia on a 14:17 plane carrying pilgrims from Yemen 14:20 attending a funeral, 14:22 >> that is the reason why they are 14:25 blockaded to the directory of Yemen, 14:29 you know. So I see, sir, the question 14:32 is why Saudi is blocking 14:34 >> until today, Saudi asks, okay we will 14:37 lift the blockade if you open our 14:39 blockade, right? 14:40 >> Hmm. Alright, Doctor Ben. It seems our 14:45 guest speaker has connected, Bang Wowi 14:50 Mardigu. It seems under the name Bosmen 14:54 , he has joined us, Mr. Mardigu. 15:01 >> Okay, one moment while I find my 15:03 position. 15:04 >> Okay, good, thank God. How are you? 15:07 Peace be upon you (Assalamualaikum). 15:08 >> It has started. The discussion has 15:10 started. 15:10 >> Peace be upon you too, Dr. Ben, how are 15:12 you? 15:13 >> Thank God. Mashallah. A year ago we met 15:17 , Mr. Mardigu, and now we are meeting 15:19 again. 15:20 >> Yes, that's right, that's right, that's 15:23 right. What are we discussing? It looks 15:27 exciting to discuss Yemen and so on. 15:32 >> That's right, Mr. Man. Now, can we 15:36 begin, Mr. Mardigu, with your analysis 15:40 for this evening? 15:42 >> Go ahead, let's start. 15:45 >> Okay, earlier we already discussed the 15:49 updates and also why we are still 15:52 discussing Yemen. From your own 15:57 analysis, how do you see the roots of 16:01 the Iran-Saudi rivalry that has made 16:05 Yemen a proxy war battlefield for more 16:09 than a decade? Is my voice clear enough 16:25 ? 16:26 >> Yes, quite clear, it was just cut off 16:28 earlier. 16:33 >> Okay, okay, okay. We 16:35 >> at a glance must see that 16:39 >> we continue, yes. So, 16:40 >> yes 16:41 >> if we look at Yemen, please do not look 16:45 at the Sunni and Shia aspect first. 16:49 >> Hmm. 16:49 >> Like that. Please do not look at it. 16:53 Saudi against Yemen. Do not look at 16:59 Iran first, but we look at the 17:01 geopolitical map of the Middle East 17:05 region where instability is always 17:08 created. The question is, who's 17:13 benefiting? We must always look at who 17:16 benefits from something. 17:18 >> Hm. So we know there is a country that 17:23 we cannot ignore where this country did 17:29 not exist back in the 1940s. Then in 17:37 '48-'49, a name called Israel suddenly 17:39 appeared. 17:42 >> Hm. And their ambition from that year, 17:46 from 100 years ago until the future, 17:49 their ambition has never changed. They 17:53 want to create what is called Pax 17:57 Judaica or Greater Israel, Greater 18:00 Judaica. The territory is on the east 18:06 and west, on the left is the Nile river 18:08 , on the right is the Tigris river in 18:11 Iraq. Hm. 18:14 >> So, by all means, they will control the 18:16 Sinai Peninsula. They must take the 18:20 entire Palestinian territory. They must 18:23 take the entire Syrian territory. They 18:25 must take the entire Lebanese territory 18:27 . They must take half of Iraq's 18:29 territory and 25%of the Saudi territory 18:32 . They have never changed. That plan. 18:34 It has never changed. And to achieve 18:39 all that, they created everything that 18:41 we have become victims of. What are 18:44 those victims? Shia and Sunni are 18:45 pitted against each other. And then, 18:48 Salafi-jihadi, 100 years ago there was 18:51 no such thing as Salafi-jihadi. That 18:54 was all Israel's doing. ISIS, Al-Qaeda, 18:57 whatever it is, right? Those are 19:02 man-made organizations created for 19:04 their interests to kill fellow Muslims 19:05 later in the name of Shia, in the name 19:07 of Sunni, in the name of Jihadi, in the 19:09 name of Wahhabi. Whatever the label, 19:13 back then 100 years ago, none of those 19:15 names existed. So if it’s in our 19:18 minds that you are Sunni, you are Shia, 19:21 you are this, you are Wahhabi, you are 19:24 that, the one who is grateful is Israel 19:28 . 19:28 >> Hm. So let's ignore all that for now. 19:33 If you ask me, I'm Sunni, I am Sunni. 19:36 Houthis are Shia. Then why do you 19:37 defend the Houthis? Well, we're getting 19:39 off the subject; we're becoming the 19:41 ones being pitted against each other, 19:43 right? Now, 19:45 >> so this war, there are two wars: Iran 19:49 and America 19:51 >> because the ambition is indeed being 19:55 ordered by Israel to burn Iran to the 19:59 ground. So, throw a stone and hide your 20:02 hand. So, geopolitically, for what is 20:04 called Pax Judaica, Israel does not 20:06 want to take Iranian territory. But 20:10 Iran has been their eternal enemy since 20:12 long ago. Because Persia has been 20:14 around for 3,000 years, even 5,000 20:16 years. That is their eternal enemy 20:19 regardless of religion. Right? 20:22 Regardless of religion. This Islamic 20:24 religion under Prophet Muhammad is only 20:26 1,500 years old. Remember, for 5,000 20:27 years that thing called Persia has 20:29 existed and has been enemies from the 20:31 start, right? So this is about history, 20:34 not about religion. Religion is still 20:39 used to fuel both of them. Now. So they 20:44 have a great interest in pitting Saudi 20:46 against the Houthis. That is the real 20:50 issue. So this war is the Houthis 20:53 versus the Saudis, versus the House of 20:56 Saud. Just like that, to make it easy. 20:58 Then what about Israel? America versus 21:01 Iran. The one laughing is Israel. 21:04 >> Like that. 21:05 >> The one laughing is Israel. So, we 21:07 first look at it from a historical 21:11 perspective. When Donald Trump in 21:15 January 2025, Donald Trump said he 21:19 would take Yemen. 21:22 >> H 21:23 >> The Houthis were indeed to be scorched 21:25 to the ground. Then he conducted an 21:29 operation in March 2025. Operation, a 21:33 military operation. Then in May 2025, 21:37 last year, he stopped the attack and 21:41 Trump said I won. 21:44 >> Whereas America lost. America failed to 21:49 take the Houthis, conquering the 21:52 Houthis was a total failure. Then in 21:56 February 2026, a year later, he was 22:00 egged on by Israel. He attacked again. 22:04 He thought after Ali Khamenei was 22:06 killed and others were killed, Iran 22:08 would collapse. It turns out 22:11 >> he got his comeuppance. Iran is strong 22:14 and still standing. That is a fact. Now 22:17 , looking forward, why did Saudi and 22:20 the Houthis suddenly go to war? 22:24 >> Hm. The question is, aren't you annoyed 22:31 to know that behind Saudi is Israel? 22:36 >> Annoyed. 22:38 >> That is a fact. 22:39 >> Yes, 22:41 >> that is a fact. And Saudi is currently 22:45 in a dilemma. Yesterday they asked 22:49 America to attack Iran, 22:52 >> now they are facing the backlash. Heh. 22:55 >> So, MBS is confused and America now 22:58 doesn't want to help him, but Israel is 23:01 behind him. 23:04 >> H. 23:04 >> Now, here is the cunning of Israel. So, 23:10 if we shout now, if we can shout that 23:13 Israel is the mastermind behind it all, 23:17 causing the Houthis to attack Saudi, 23:20 and for what purpose? We must remember, 23:23 what is the purpose? So that we all 23:25 understand why Israel is doing that. 23:29 Besides establishing Pax Judaica in 23:31 that region, they must do one very 23:34 important thing. The Third Temple must 24:09 be built. Do you friends know where 24:13 that temple is? At Al-Aqsa Mosque. 24:19 Because they consider Al-Aqsa Mosque to 24:21 be the former site of Solomon's Temple 24:24 that was destroyed, and Al-Aqsa Mosque 24:27 was built there. So, by all means, once 24:30 again, they must demolish Al-Aqsa to 24:33 build the temple. And once that happens 24:36 , a world war will occur given the 24:39 current situation. But they will first 24:42 destroy all Muslims and these Islamic 24:44 countries. Only then will they demolish 24:47 Al-Aqsa. 24:49 >> And this is truly a war that is very, 24:51 very awaited. So this war, this Houthi 24:54 and Saudi war, is actually a small war. 24:57 >> Hm. This is just to destroy these two 24:59 ammunitions until they are gone. Later, 25:02 Oman will be targeted next. Later, 25:04 Kuwait and Iraq will be targeted next. 25:07 Later, Iran will be hammered again. 25:09 Once everything has collapsed, they 25:11 will demolish Al-Aqsa Mosque. This is 25:15 where for us Muslims, why God entrusted 25:17 it to the Indonesian nation, which is 25:20 thousands of kilometers away. Because 25:24 the champion who will protect all of 25:25 that later is Indonesia. This is what 25:28 we Indonesian Muslims, who make up 87% 25:31 of the 297 million, must be reminded of 25:34 , that the savior is Indonesia. So 25:38 going forward, Dr. Band, please 25:41 continue from me there. 25:44 >> Ready, ready. Okay. Uh, uh, Mr. Mardi, 25:51 if I may, you really went straight to 25:54 the point regarding such a massive 25:57 scenario. Even though it was said 26:02 earlier that this is a small war, 26:04 observers or Western media also see 26:07 that when Saudi and Yemen are shooting 26:10 at each other, it's actually part of an 26:12 expensive war. Now, if it is part of an 26:18 expensive war, is Saudi really, truly 26:21 unable to escape from the trap or, what 26:25 should I say, the scenario of America 26:28 and the Zionists of Israel, Mr. Mardigu 26:31 ? 26:38 >> How is Saudi trapped, you mean? 26:40 >> Yes. Does Saudi perhaps understand that 26:44 if it is, let's say, being used in this 26:47 expensive war by the Zionists of Israel 26:50 , can it really not break free from 26:53 this trap? Uh. You can't joke around 27:04 with Mossad or Israel. 27:07 >> This one. They all, sorry to say, might 27:12 be holding some data on MBS. 27:17 >> So it's not as simple as we see it, 27:19 thinking, why are they so obedient, why 27:22 do they follow along, why are they 27:24 afraid? Isn't that right? 27:26 >> Yes. Yeah. 27:29 >> Let's not go there. Let's not do that. 27:31 Pardon my language. Suppose the 27:33 president now isn't Prabowo. Suppose 27:36 the president is Anies. Let's just jump 27:39 to that. There are many policies where 27:43 before Prabowo became president, he was 27:45 vocal about them. Once he became 27:46 president, why did it turn out like 27:47 this? 27:48 >> Isn't that right? 27:49 >> Yeah. 27:51 >> That's called golden handcuffs. Whether 27:54 it's Ganjar or Anies who becomes 27:55 president, once they find out, oh, 27:56 there's this, right. Isn't that right? 27:59 >> Yes. Yes. It's. It's that simple. We 28:05 are not a country. There are some. Who 28:13 can do various things, why are they 28:14 afraid? Yes. That is what we are 28:22 analyzing, but that is the 28:24 sophistication of Israel, and Israel 28:26 cannot do that in Iran. 28:29 >> Hmm. They, they can't because of that 28:31 mosaic system, where once a leader 28:33 falls, they are replaced, they fall, 28:35 they are replaced again. That is beyond 28:37 their prediction. Like a prayer leader; 28:41 once one imam falls, the next one 28:42 immediately replaces them. Wow, and the 28:44 replacements are all capable. 28:46 >> That is the brilliance of that mosaic. 28:47 Isn't that right, Doctor Ben? 28:48 >> Yes. Yes. Enough, enough, enough. 28:52 That's spot on. 28:54 >> Hmm. So, Dr. Ben is entering the 28:59 context of a wider war, then. It 29:02 becomes between, uh, the United States 29:04 and Israel versus, uh, Iran, right? How 29:08 surrounding countries are also being 29:10 utilized, used, and this utilization of 29:12 countries just never stops, right? Even 29:15 , uh, their targets are already 29:17 reaching vital points, right? What do 29:20 you think, Dr. Ben? Yes, I see it this 29:24 way, uh, Mas Mardigu, that. Uh, there 29:28 are major dilemmas, big dilemmas 29:31 happening in the midst of the Arab 29:33 countries. The dilemma, a huge dilemma, 29:37 is when they are, uh, on one hand 29:40 afraid of Iran. But on the other hand, 29:45 there is a great demand from the Muslim 29:47 community, especially for Saudi Arabia, 29:48 to have the courage to confront Israel. 29:51 So, there are two things that I think 29:54 are indeed dilemmatic regarding the 29:57 position of Saudi Arabia. So, can this 30:01 dilemma be resolved by Saudi Arabia? 30:08 For example, this Mecca Pact asks the 30:12 three countries—this trilateral group 30:16 or three countries that agreed to the 30:20 Mecca Pact—If one is attacked, they 30:23 will take the same stance. Now, when 30:30 this Mecca Pact didn't go according to 30:33 plan when the Houthis attacked Saudi, 30:36 that's where the dilemma is. When 30:40 America didn't help Saudi Arabia, then 30:42 Britain didn't help Saudi Arabia, 30:45 suddenly Israel offered, as Mr. Mardigu 30:47 said, Israel provided assistance even 30:50 if it was in the form of intelligence 30:52 supplies. So, here the position of 30:56 Saudi Arabia is dilemmatic. It means 30:59 like this: "Why are you attacked by 31:01 Iran? Because I provided a base, but if 31:03 I don't provide a base, I'm faced with 31:05 Iranian proxies. How do I handle it?" 31:07 So, I think, maybe you can elaborate on 31:10 Iran and Saudi Arabia, especially these 31:13 dilemmatic positions. If Saudi Arabia 31:18 expels America, it doesn't have enough 31:21 strength to fight Iran's proxies. Then, 31:28 if it doesn't get close to Israel, it 31:30 doesn't have the database. It cannot 31:33 convince America because America and 31:35 Israel are in one position. One 31:37 position. So, I see this dilemma here. 31:42 Then, indeed, I agree with what Mr. 31:45 Mardigu said earlier. We are not going 31:50 into Sunni-Shia, but in this context, 31:52 Mr. Mardigu, there is Saudi power among 31:55 Saudis or people who are indeed 31:57 fanatical. Is it also used by Iran to 32:01 throw that out as moral and 32:04 psychological support for both sides? 32:08 That, "Look, Saudi Arabia, Israel is 32:11 behind you, behind all of you," like 32:13 that. Look at Iran who is brave enough 32:16 to fight Israel. So, there are indeed 32:19 things being tried to be magnified so 32:21 that 32:23 >> two poles that we don't want to happen 32:25 occur, and what is called Sunni-Shia 32:26 happens. So I feel like this, Mr. 32:30 Mardigu, when I raise the issue of 32:33 Saudi Arabia, I get beaten up by people 32:37 who we might call Salafi or Wahhabi. 32:41 When I defend it, the impression is, 32:42 the impression is defending Saudi 32:44 Arabia. Wow, that's pro-this, they 32:47 attack, right? So indeed, in this 32:50 context, this is a very sensitive 32:52 context or issue. When we step in to, 32:55 uh, make a contribution, the root of 32:57 the problem is this, this is how it 33:00 should end, and this must end. It 33:03 indeed must end; that Israel is the 33:05 mastermind, that is, uh, already 33:08 understood by all of us, that they are 33:10 the ones who engineer all these events 33:12 and such. But the question is, why do 33:15 people wonder, for example, why is 33:17 Saudi Arabia not bold enough to be firm 33:20 with Israel when Israel attacks Gaza? 33:23 Yeah, why aren't the 100 Saudi Arabian 33:25 fighter jets and the other coalition 33:28 members defending Gaza? But why is it 33:31 that when it comes to Yemen, wow, that 33:34 coalition is formed, so there is 33:35 significant public frustration, some of 33:38 us see the behavior of Saudi Arabia. 33:41 Well, it gives the impression that we 33:43 are defending Iran. So, I remember very 33:47 well the words of Ustaz Hasan Sahal, 33:50 the leader of Gontor, "I don't care 33:52 about Shia or Sunni, what matters is 33:54 whoever defends Palestine, I am there." 33:59 >> Yes. Yes. Mentioned by Dr. Band, this 34:03 is the Mecca Pact. Now, what do you 34:05 think, Mr. Mardigo? We also see here it 34:08 is being played, uh, with the term that 34:11 actually this Mecca Pact is Turkey, 34:14 Pakistan, uh, and one more, uh, Turkey, 34:17 Pakistan, and... 34:21 >> Saudi Arabia. 34:23 >> Saudi Arabia. Eh, how do you, Mr. 34:25 Mardigo, see this Mecca Pact in this 34:27 conflict? Does it also fall into the 34:30 Israeli agenda mentioned earlier? We 34:33 know that Saudi, Pakistan, and Turkey 34:39 are part of the allies. If we look, 34:45 remember Turkey is part of the UN, EU, 34:49 part of NATO, right, then Pakistan, 34:52 America's child, those who are 34:55 anti-American get crushed and jailed. 34:59 So the current Pakistani regime is an 35:02 American regime. 35:04 >> Likewise, the Saudi regime is also an 35:06 American regime. So a regime that 35:08 America doesn't agree with, it's 35:09 impossible for that to happen. So here 35:12 is the thing, if we talk about the 35:15 future, this is what I'm saying, why 35:18 Indonesia is the hero that should step 35:22 in? Hopefully, the President 35:23 understands, hopefully the entire 35:25 Muslim community understands. So it's 35:26 like this, our country, Indonesia, back 35:31 in the SBY era, in the previous era. 35:36 Soeharto, we were often considered a 35:39 country that frequently provided 35:41 initiatives for world peace. Mr. Karno 35:45 with, uh, what, in, in what year '55, 35:50 where? in the Asian-African Conference 35:53 in Bandung, 35:54 >> that's called an initiative. Then we 35:58 used to know that in the world there 36:00 was only the G7, the rich countries, 36:04 the top of 190 countries, these seven 36:06 richest countries had the G7. 36:09 >> Then, Mr. SBY had an initiative, Marty 36:17 Natalegawa, Dino Patti, and friends, 36:20 they created an initiative, why don't 36:22 we create the 20 major countries, the 36:24 G20, because there Africa is included, 36:27 Latin America is included, the largest 36:29 Islamic country is included. Finally, 36:33 the G20 was established. That was an 36:35 initiative in SBY's era. Without that 36:38 initiative, we wouldn't be heard. 36:40 Finally, we can sit at the same table 36:41 as America, can sit at the same table 36:42 as England. Right? In the G20, because 36:45 Indonesia is the 15th richest country. 36:47 Finally, we entered the G20, with India 36:50 finally joining to represent Hinduism 36:52 and so on. Now, that is what is called 36:53 an initiative. We know that in Jokowi's 36:56 era, there were no world-class 36:58 initiatives. In these 2 years of 37:00 Prabowo's era, thank God, there are 37:02 still no world-class initiatives either 37:04 . But we must propose, we must propose 37:08 to them. We must provide an initiative 37:11 that Indonesia, as an Islamic country, 37:13 will create a defense pact for all 37:16 Islamic countries. 37:17 >> Whether they are Sunni or Shia, we 37:20 don't care. We will create a 37:22 comprehensive defense pact. So, it's 37:25 like NATO, but specifically for Islamic 37:27 countries, so that Islam cannot be 37:28 pitted against each other. That could 37:31 make peace between Saudi and Yemen, and 37:34 that is our defense pact, and Indonesia 37:36 must take the initiative, Indonesia 37:38 must lead. That is what it takes if 37:40 Indonesia wants to have "guts" in 37:41 governance, to have initiatives, it 37:42 should be like that. I am tired of just 37:44 talking about concepts, discourse, 37:45 discourse, with no initiatives, no 37:47 ideas. Now, here on Rasil radio, this 37:51 is where we first sparked the 37:53 initiative idea for Indonesia to become 37:56 the first country to lead in creating a 37:59 defense pact for all Islamic countries. 38:02 Peace at the table. The arguments 38:05 should really be among ourselves at the 38:07 table. We make peace by creating a 38:09 defense pact so that we are not 38:10 destroyed again by Israel, not 38:12 destroyed again by Western allies, and 38:13 so on. That is my final thought so that 38:18 this can be continued, and this 38:20 initiative must be kept alive so that 38:22 it becomes a real step, only then can 38:25 we stop Israel in Palestine because 38:27 everyone is united. If it’s like now, 38:31 we are just separated, we won't get 38:33 anywhere. It’s honestly giving me a 38:35 toothache. Our brothers are being 38:37 slaughtered there, and we are just 38:39 shouting from the pulpit. Right? Yes. 38:41 Yes. 38:42 >> Isn't that right, Dr. Ben? 38:44 >> Yes. Yes, 38:45 >> Regardless of anything, please excuse 38:47 me, I have to go. It was extraordinary 38:49 today, Dr. Ben, Mas Angga. I must take 38:51 my leave. 38:51 >> Thank you. Wasalamualaikum 38:53 warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. 38:54 >> Thank you. Waalaikumsalam, Mr. Mar. 38:57 Thank you very much for joining the 38:59 show tonight. 39:03 >> Dr. Ben, indeed, even though there were 39:08 a few sentences, he was very direct. 39:14 Even our question about where Indonesia 39:16 stands was directly addressed by Mr. 39:18 Mar. He just said, "This is how it 39:19 should be," straight to the core point. 39:23 How do you, Doctor, view the element of 39:25 unity among Islamic countries with 39:28 Indonesia as the initiator, starting 39:30 from history to the current position 39:32 where the United States is actually 39:34 shackling Indonesia, in quotes? How do 39:37 you see this, Doc? I, it's already 39:44 quite heavy, isn't it? Indeed, what was 39:48 raised by Mr. Mar earlier is a 39:50 visionary idea, I think it's visionary, 39:53 and it is the hope of all of us. So, 39:56 these Islamic countries have their own 39:59 NATO with their own protocols. That is 40:02 all our hope. So I see the OIC has 52 40:06 countries and shouldn't just dwell on 40:09 political and economic issues, but must 40:11 also address security issues. Will this 40:16 take the initiative, or will more 40:17 modern countries take the initiative? I 40:20 think that is, what, a good thing? A 40:22 good thing, yes. Whatever it is, 40:24 Indonesia should take the initiative 40:26 because it is indeed heard by these 40:28 countries. Actually, that institutional 40:30 idea is good, but is it realistic or 40:32 not? Well, that needs more in-depth 40:34 work. Mas Angga, I remember this very 40:35 clearly, Mas Angga. Around what year, 40:39 2018 or 2019, there was what was called 40:42 the Organization of Islamic Cooperation 40:45 . An OIC emergency meeting, yes. Oh, I 40:51 forgot, it wasn't an OIC emergency 40:54 meeting, there was a meeting of Arab 40:57 countries, Pakistan, and Malaysia in 41:00 Malaysia. This was sponsored by Qatar 41:05 and Turkey. Turkey, Qatar, Pakistan, 41:08 Indonesia, and Malaysia. Five countries 41:11 were invited. But when Saudi Arabia was 41:14 angry with Pakistan and threatened 41:17 Pakistan for attending, these five 41:19 countries disbanded. So there was no 41:23 in-depth, functional discussion from 41:25 this meeting. Because why? Because 41:28 Saudi said, "Why wasn't I invited?" See 41:31 , that's how it is. So, this sectoral 41:33 egoism is still strong among Muslims. 41:37 So, why, for example, the issues that 41:39 we hope will unite the Islamic 41:41 community won't materialize if there is 41:43 sectoral regionalism. Secondly, Mas, 41:48 you must know that this pact is 41:50 actually Pakistan has already activated 41:55 it in the sense that we have already 41:57 deployed 8,000 Pakistani troops in 42:00 Saudi Arabia. Then with combat, I think 42:05 we are more compliant in implementing 42:08 this Makkah pact. Perhaps if it's 42:11 Turkey, they might need approval from 42:13 their parliament. So, I think from 42:16 these three, other countries can join 42:19 in, and remember that Indonesia must 42:21 also be invited. So as Mas said earlier 42:26 , regarding Pak Prabowo's era, there 42:30 are actually no new initiatives that 42:33 can unite Islamic countries. For 42:38 example, of course, the Gaza issue, Mas 42:40 Angga; actually, Indonesia could take 42:42 over the issue, Indonesia could take 42:44 over and then distribute it, as long as 42:47 they are willing, Mas Angga. So I 42:49 consider that all problems can be 42:51 solved if there is a desire, there is a 42:53 will. So our proverb says that where 42:58 there is a will, there is a way; that 43:01 becomes an expression that, once 43:04 implemented, has its own truth. So now, 43:09 regarding the Gaza problems, Indonesia 43:11 should take a more technical initiative 43:13 , Mas Angga. Then the Houthi issue, 43:16 which can, you know, drain the energy 43:17 of the Muslim community while there are 43:19 other issues that must be resolved, and 43:21 this is something where there is no 43:23 more technical initiative, I think, 43:24 than this. 43:27 >> Hmm. Brothers and sisters blessed by 43:31 Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala, you are 43:34 currently listening to the live 43:36 broadcast of the "Open Your Eyes, Open 43:39 Your Ears" program with Dr. Taufiqul 43:42 Murad, and earlier we were joined by 43:45 our guest speaker, global geopolitical 43:48 observer, Bang Wowi Mardigu, or Mardigu 43:51 Wowi. But he had to leave early, Doc. 43:54 Perhaps due to his busy schedule. And I 43:57 will go to several listeners, here is 43:59 Mr. Ahmad in Bogor. Peace be upon you 44:02 and Allah's mercy and blessings. Dr. 44:07 Ben and also Mr. Mardigu, is there 44:10 still room for diplomacy that is open 44:13 regarding the Houthis right now, or 44:15 will the situation indeed escalate into 44:19 a worse war? Okay, what do you think, 44:23 Doc? 44:26 >> Yes, I understand, Mr. Ahmad. Thank you 44:28 , Mr. Ahmad. But there are no serious 44:31 diplomatic efforts. So I see that 44:36 Israel has an interest in disturbing 44:38 the stability of Saudi Arabia. So the 44:42 attack yesterday on the airport 44:44 >> uh 44:45 >> the airport in Saudi Arabia creates the 44:48 impression that Saudi Arabia is 44:50 actually overwhelmed in facing these 44:53 attacks from the Houthis. So, as I said 44:58 at the beginning, there really needs to 45:00 be a country that takes the initiative 45:02 to be able to reconcile, to reconcile 45:04 this, and this is not yet visible. And 45:08 it appears there are indications that 45:10 Israel has been provoking by providing 45:12 intelligence data so that this war will 45:15 continue. What is the target? The 45:18 target is how to weaken Iran. The point 45:20 is actually to weaken Iran. So if they 45:23 are provoked, for instance the Houthis, 45:25 surely Iran cannot just stand by. With 45:27 Iran not standing by, their resources 45:30 will be depleted. Now, this is what 45:32 will become the target of America after 45:36 the 2022 midterm elections in November. 45:39 So, the real point is that this war is 45:42 about how Iran's resources can be 45:45 reduced. This is what is targeted, so 45:49 that Iranian influence is reduced or 45:52 weakened in the Bab el-Mandeb region, 45:55 because if a blockade is carried out by 45:58 the Houthis, it can disrupt Saudi 46:01 Arabia's economy, right. So I see there 46:06 is an interest for Saudi Arabia to be 46:09 able to control its proxies in Yemen. 46:13 But Iran also has an interest in 46:14 keeping the Houthis active. So that is 46:17 what I understand. It means Saudi wants 46:20 to maintain its proxies, then Iran also 46:23 has its proxies, and Israel has an 46:25 interest in weakening Iran. Like that, 46:28 uh who has the most potential to set up 46:40 a negotiating table according to Dr. 46:44 Ben Western countries, the Middle East, 46:50 or Asia? Which country is it actually, 46:53 Doc? For this conflict? It seems the 47:04 connection is really bad. 47:08 >> Yes. So, roughly which country has the 47:12 potential to best open a negotiating 47:15 table for the Yemen conflict involving 47:19 Saudi and Iran, Doc? Whether from 47:23 European countries, Asia, or the Middle 47:25 East itself. 47:28 >> I still believe that Indonesia has the 47:30 role, the opportunity, and the 47:31 potential to facilitate peace. I am 47:33 very confident in Indonesia, even 47:36 though people might underestimate it. 47:40 In reality, Indonesia has experience, 47:43 such as with the MNLF, the Moro 47:45 rebellion in the Philippines, and it 47:47 was Indonesia that brokered peace in 47:50 Cambodia. So, Indonesia essentially has 47:55 the genetic makeup to reconcile Saudi 47:58 Arabia and Iran. It is just a matter of 48:03 Indonesia having high self-confidence. 48:07 I am convinced that Indonesia can do it 48:11 in its own way. 48:13 >> Yes. 48:14 >> For example, when the war in 48:17 Afghanistan occurred with the Taliban, 48:20 what did Indonesia do? Indonesia 48:23 invited scholars who were pro-Afghan 48:26 government and scholars who were 48:28 pro-Taliban. They were invited to 48:30 Indonesia to discuss. It doesn't mean 48:32 that peace was achieved in Afghanistan 48:34 immediately after that. No. But that 48:36 was the initial process from which 48:37 things could develop, grow, and expand. 48:40 Because in my opinion, no one wants to 48:42 be at war forever; there are certainly 48:45 groups that benefit, but there are also 48:47 many who are harmed. So, the community 48:51 actually just wants peace, but the ones 48:54 holding the key are not these people. 48:58 And Indonesia has that; I am very 49:01 convinced that 49:04 >> Indonesia is a country with the 49:06 potential for that; it just depends on 49:08 whether we have the will and confidence 49:11 to do it. 49:14 >> Yes, alright Doctor, we will go to Mr. 49:16 Bambang Gatot, peace be upon you and 49:18 Allah's mercy and blessings. Great, a 49:23 brilliant idea for a coalition of 49:25 Muslim countries. But is it possible? 49:30 So, Dr. Band, what do you think about 49:32 that idea of a coalition of Muslim 49:34 countries that must unite to face this? 49:38 Is it possible, Doc? Yes. 49:41 >> No. Actually, if we look at geopolitics 49:44 , there is pessimism. But as Muslims, 49:48 we think 49:50 >> we cannot just give up. So, it is 49:53 indeed not an easy task, but it is not 49:55 an impossible one either. It is not 49:59 impossible, provided as I said, there 50:02 is an initiative taken by a country 50:04 that is truly neutral. It is accepted 50:07 by all parties. Furthermore, it does 50:10 not have interests that are of a nature 50:14 to build proxies or create fear for 50:17 other countries. I am confident that 50:21 Indonesia can do that. Now, why am I 50:23 confident? We consider the big 50:26 countries. Take Egypt, for example; 50:29 Egypt still has issues with the Muslim 50:32 Brotherhood groups. It has issues with 50:36 Qatar. It has issues with Egypt. It 50:39 still has issues with Iran. Saudi 50:43 Arabia also has problems with the 50:46 United Arab Emirates, and also problems 50:49 with countries like Egypt; they are not 50:53 very close because they are competing 50:56 over who is the leader of Islamic 50:59 nations. So, although Saudi Arabia and 51:02 Egypt may seem close, in reality, they 51:03 are not really that close. But 51:05 Indonesia can enter into any issue, can 51:07 get involved in everything, with the 51:10 Indonesian smile, our smiles, and a bit 51:12 of humor. So, Indonesia could actually 51:15 embrace many countries to be turned 51:17 into a force, provided that Indonesia 51:19 also has a good economic power, but if 51:22 we are struggling ourselves, it gets 51:24 complicated. 51:26 >> It means that if we want to create big 51:28 initiatives, we must first ensure that 51:31 we are nationally quite independent in 51:33 many matters. 51:37 >> Alright, there is Ibu Ati from Sukabumi 51:39 , Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi 51:41 wabarakatuh. As for me, the mastermind 51:46 behind all of this remains Zionist 51:48 Israel. There is also Eyang Sri who is 51:53 sending her regards this evening and is 52:00 tuning in regarding the source of 52:05 conflicts worldwide, which is Jewish 52:10 Israel. Okay. What do you think, Doc? 52:14 The source of all conflicts in this 52:16 world is Israel, that is what the 52:18 listener says, and this 52:22 >> how do you see it if it is said to be 52:24 the source of conflict worldwide? It 52:27 seems a bit too simple, right, Doc? 52:28 What do you think, Doc? 52:30 >> Yes. Well, indeed, if it is framed that 52:33 way, there are parties who do not agree 52:36 . But I believe, perhaps it is more 52:38 about the Zionists. The Zionists, who 52:42 indeed have agendas that we all already 52:44 know about. Their agendas ultimately 52:48 boil down to money, how they control 52:51 banking networks, and their constant 52:54 efforts to control the world. So I 52:58 agree with what was said earlier, that 53:01 the mastermind of it all is Israel, but 53:04 more precisely, the mastermind is the 53:06 Zionists, who today, honestly speaking, 53:09 will see their power diminish in this 53:12 upcoming November election. So let us 53:16 see, there will be changes. 53:19 >> Hm. Alright, those are the final 53:23 questions we can answer in our 53:26 discussion this evening, Dr. Ben, as a 53:29 closing to our BMBT discussion tonight. 53:34 What would you like to remind our 53:36 listeners, Dr. Ben? 53:40 >> Yes, in my opinion, Mas. It is about 53:44 how Iran should limit its influence or 53:47 its strategy in Yemen. Likewise for 53:51 Saudi Arabia, to not interfere in Yemen 53:53 . And let us leave it to the Yemenis to 53:58 resolve their own internal domestic 54:01 issues so that the people of Yemen, who 54:04 are currently experiencing many 54:07 hardships, can unite as a national 54:10 entity with a solid government. Yes, 54:15 without any interference from external 54:17 parties disrupting their national 54:20 mandate. I think that is what we must 54:24 convey to our listeners, that today we 54:28 see that external factors are what 54:30 cause instability in Yemen. 54:34 >> Yes. Hopefully, this opens the 54:38 listeners 'minds and serves as a form 54:41 of literacy for us in viewing the 54:43 conflict in the Middle East, 54:45 particularly Yemen, which involves many 54:48 countries, and Dr. Ben, thank you very 54:50 much for the discussion this evening. I 54:55 hope Dr. Ben is always in good health. 54:57 God willing, we will meet again in two 54:59 weeks, right Dr. Ben? God willing. 55:05 Brothers and sisters, may you be 55:06 blessed. 55:07 >> Thank you, everyone. 55:09 >> That concludes our program this evening 55:12 , and thank you for being with us. Let 55:15 us close with a prayer. All praise is 55:16 due to Allah, Lord of the worlds. Glory 55:18 be to You, O Allah, and with Your 55:19 praise, I bear witness that there is no 55:20 god but You, I seek Your forgiveness 55:21 and repent to You. Peace be upon you, 55:23 and the mercy of Allah and His 55:24 blessings. 
